Abuse among men, as adults or children

[smac97]

So this is interesting:

Quote

How “Me Too” Unfairly Maligns Men and Perpetuates Victimhood

Posted by Kemberlee Kaye    Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 9:44pm

“We must fight this nonexistent expectation!” is hardly a rallying cry for change.

d

Edited October 19, 2017 by smac97

[bluebell]

18 hours ago, ttribe said:

Two prominent incidents in my youth:

1 - an adult male tutor providing me private trumpet lessons when I was about 12 called me at home one night to tell me that I "turned him on." He was asked to never come back and I never saw him again.

2 - an adult male neighbor visited my home one day when I was about 14 to ask questions about our computer; he began rubbing my shoulders as I was showing him a feature of the computer.  I asked him to stop and told him I needed to leave so he would too.  For several weeks, he would knock on the door and I wouldn't answer and he would look in various windows of our home (presumably to find me). My parents were divorced, I lived with my mother only, and it was summer vacation.  Yeah, this situation freaked me out.

That's horrible!

[Calm]

18 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Based on everything in this thread and the other thread can we just flood the world again and start over?

It is hard to hear from those we know, but is very important as it is harder to dismiss as irrelevant or the rare occurrence and therefore little must change.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

So this is interesting:

d

Please start your own thread if what you want to do is discuss alleged harm of the discussion of people's experiences, don't use mine to do so as it is off topic.  You are not on limited, so do not need to rely on others' threads to speak.

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

That's horrible!

Oooo..I agree...that is just so not right..heebie jeebies!!

[Jeanne]

19 hours ago, ttribe said:

Two prominent incidents in my youth:

1 - an adult male tutor providing me private trumpet lessons when I was about 12 called me at home one night to tell me that I "turned him on." He was asked to never come back and I never saw him again.

2 - an adult male neighbor visited my home one day when I was about 14 to ask questions about our computer; he began rubbing my shoulders as I was showing him a feature of the computer.  I asked him to stop and told him I needed to leave so he would too.  For several weeks, he would knock on the door and I wouldn't answer and he would look in various windows of our home (presumably to find me). My parents were divorced, I lived with my mother only, and it was summer vacation.  Yeah, this situation freaked me out.

Thanks for opening up and sharing...

[Guest]

This is without a doubt an interesting and perplexing issue. In the early part of my life I cam from a broken home, this was due to a floundering bio-father. Which later became a stable home environment, so I cannot speak from any personal experience in the home. Outside the home is a different matter, my first was while in the Army. I had a female Drill Sargent, and two male Drill Sargents, which made for very difficult interactions. Comments, and behaviors were vulgar, which made for some difficult moments for this "adopted son" of a Minister. One day early on, I had heard and seen enough and we had a "come to Jesus meeting", in a very public way! I paid a price for  this, but not for long as I pushed back. Circumstances such as this continued for my eight years in the Army, and each time I able to handle it with a little more decorum (hope I spelled this correctly), as those I served with on both sides of the Atlantic soon found out that I had little use for such behavior. Rest assured, during my eight years of Army service, if I were not committed to my wife and family there would have been countless opportunities to "prey, or be preyed upon".  

All of that pales in comparison to the many events where I observed abuse as a Police Officer. Men beating or sexually assaulting women, and women (to a lesser degree) doing the same to men. It is so difficult to see so many at their worst, it begins to drag a person down. Even more difficult are the many opportunities for the same behaviors to happen within the lives of other officers. For myself, at times it was like a war ragging within myself, or as the Apostle Paul said, "waring within my members". The innumerable circumstances that availed themselves for myself and others to cross lines, or at the least blur those lines. For some of my fellow officers, or later on "my officers" (when I was supervisor and chief), they lost their way, their marriages and even their careers. Throughout my entire adult life, I would not even have lunch alone with female officers or secretaries, unless I invited others to attend. The more difficult part was visiting the homes of those needed police assistance, and even when doing and working in Inspections as I got older. So often it would be you and a single woman, or housewives, and feeling harmed by those that should love them, and there you (I) are being kind. It was like walking in a land mine, as you are trying to tiptoe out as soon as you could. Then there were the nightclubs, houses of prostitution, were victims of such abuse growing up, are now acting out those same abusing as adults. I thank God, that after 23 years, that I escaped with my soul in tact. I also praise him that I never had to experience any such abuses as a child.    

[smac97]

24 minutes ago, Calm said:

Please start your own thread if what you want to do is discuss alleged harm of the discussion of people's experiences, don't use mine to do so as it is off topic.  You are not on limited, so do not need to rely on others' threads to speak.

I intended to erase the post, but was having connectivity problems. That's why it is only partially done. My apologies.

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I intended to erase the post, but was having connectivity problems. That's why it is only partially done. My apologies.

Thank you, I very much appreciate that.  Hopefully the mods can take care of that for you.  Please feel free to post on topic comments, hopefully I have been clear enough on what that means.

I appreciate those who are being cautious, if you want to err on the side of caution by opening up parallel threads, I think that is a great idea.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Calm

[ttribe]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

That's horrible!

Interestingly enough, a number of years later, I was a teller at a bank branch nearby and had recently returned from my mission and Mr. Neighbor came into my branch.  He was helped by another teller, but he happened to look over at me, did a double take and I looked right at him as if to say "I remember you and what you tried to do"...he got out of there VERY fast and I never saw him come in again.

[Nofear]

21 hours ago, Duncan said:

 You get told what not to do but you don't get what to do and how to talk to women or not be jealous or how to do with feelings. So you bottle up all these feelings and it comes out 60 ways to sunday.

One of the reasons I like church dances for the young men. As awkward and uncomfortable as it is for them (and the girls) it is a teaching opportunity that under the right circumstances it is appropriate to make actual, honest to goodness, physical contact with a female.

So often we focus on the negative that we forget the positive. To my understanding, theologically, we are pretty pro-sex and pro-intimacy. Culturally, we don't always match the theology.

[mfbukowski]

On 10/18/2017 at 4:19 PM, Duncan said:

I'm going to throw this out there but generally speaking men don't talk about problems, we go into our emotional "man cave", which can have disastrous results like completed suicide is more common among men then women, even though women attempt it more often (i've read that I don't have any study to back it up) In the Church, society there is this role that men must play, providers, serve mission, callings. I think the Church, generally speaking, is trying to burst that image by saying we need to be Christ centered and not Church centered. it's okay not to like camping, know anything about basketball and you don't need to be a General Authority or a President of anything to be approved by God

Thanks for mentioning the church and showing some relevance to God on this gospel centered board.

[jkwilliams]

I became very close friends with one of my mission companions. After the mission, we were roommates at BYU. A couple of weeks before the end of the semester when I would be going home and getting married, I woke up in the middle of the night to find him in my bed with his hands inside my garments. It felt like the worst kind of betrayal, and it still hurts now to know he did that. But at the time I was so shocked and humiliated that I didn't say anything to anyone. I don't think before then I understand why victims don't speak up, but the shame and humiliation are quite real. Still are for me in some ways.

Edited October 20, 2017 by jkwilliams

[mfbukowski]

So you really want to hear every perverse and disgusting experience every Mormon on the board has had ?

Don't these belong in a therapist's office? Or perhaps with your Bishop? And here on a board about the gospel and it's defense? Why?

Nevermind, I choose to remain as politically incorrect as decency requires.  The problem needs to be addressed, but personal details that don't belong in a discussion of the problem seems lurid and marginally pornographic.

I would like to keep such images out if my head, and here they are.

Anybody got pictures?

These are mystifying times.

[ttribe]

2 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

So you really want to hear every perverse and disgusting experience every Mormon on the board has had ?

Don't these belong in a therapist's office? Or perhaps with your Bishop? And here on a board about the gospel and it's defense? Why?

Nevermind, I choose to remain as politically incorrect as decency requires.  The problem needs to be addressed, but personal details that don't belong in a discussion of the problem seems lurid and marginally pornographic.

I would like to keep such images out if my head, and here they are.

Anybody got pictures?

These are mystifying times.

Grow up, Mark.  If you don't have anything useful to add, stay out.

[ttribe]

3 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

I became very close friends with one of my mission companions. After the mission, we were roommates at BYU. A couple of weeks before the end of the semester when I would be going home and getting married, I woke up in the middle of the night to find him in my bed with his hands inside my garments. It felt like the worst kind of betrayal, and it still hurts now to know he did that. But at the time I was so shocked and humiliated that I didn't say anything to anyone. I don't think before then I understand why victims don't speak up, but the shame and humiliation are quite real. Still are for me in some ways.

I might have found myself incarcerated after the beating I would have put on him for doing that to me.  Unbelieveable.

[mfbukowski]

1 minute ago, ttribe said:

Grow up, Mark.  If you don't have anything useful to add, stay out.

Yes Mommy.

Say it again.

[Calm]

54 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

So you really want to hear every perverse and disgusting experience every Mormon on the board has had ?

Don't these belong in a therapist's office? Or perhaps with your Bishop? And here on a board about the gospel and it's defense? Why?

Nevermind, I choose to remain as politically incorrect as decency requires.  The problem needs to be addressed, but personal details that don't belong in a discussion of the problem seems lurid and marginally pornographic.

I would like to keep such images out if my head, and here they are.

Anybody got pictures?

These are mystifying times.

Please, if you don't understand why there is a need for this to happen and it bothers you to read this, then don't read.  I don't want people to be unnecessarily upset, but this is important.

It needs to be made real for people (including victims so they don't feel isolated) so they can understand how extensive it is as well as its limits, so we can learn how to respond to prevent or at least help others heal.  Vague details won't convict people's hearts in this subject anymore than it will in finding a testimony of the gospel.  Putting 'faces' to these problems will lead to greater understanding just as it does when people share the uplifting message of the gospel.

In the Gospel we are to bear each other's burdens and mourn with those who mourn.  I see this sharing as providing people with an opportunity of fulfilling this commandment.  If you do not feel the same way, then please step away. We don't need to insist people read when the method of communicating doesn't work for them.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Calm

[The Nehor]

47 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

So you really want to hear every perverse and disgusting experience every Mormon on the board has had ?

Don't these belong in a therapist's office? Or perhaps with your Bishop? And here on a board about the gospel and it's defense? Why?

Nevermind, I choose to remain as politically incorrect as decency requires.  The problem needs to be addressed, but personal details that don't belong in a discussion of the problem seems lurid and marginally pornographic.

I would like to keep such images out if my head, and here they are.

Anybody got pictures?

These are mystifying times.

Unless you are being compelled to view this thread you could just......stop. I have done it in threads before. It usually turns out okay.

[jkwilliams]

51 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

So you really want to hear every perverse and disgusting experience every Mormon on the board has had ?

Don't these belong in a therapist's office? Or perhaps with your Bishop? And here on a board about the gospel and it's defense? Why?

Nevermind, I choose to remain as politically incorrect as decency requires.  The problem needs to be addressed, but personal details that don't belong in a discussion of the problem seems lurid and marginally pornographic.

I would like to keep such images out if my head, and here they are.

Anybody got pictures?

These are mystifying times.

Thanks for illustrating why so many of us don’t ever talk about it. Anyone who thinks people are sharing their experiences out of a desire to be lurid and marginally pornographic has bigger problems than being politically correct. 

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Unless you are being compelled to view this thread you could just......stop. I have done it in threads before. It usually turns out okay.

I have not seen evidence of that, but ok

The question is about whether or not it is appropriate for the board, but I will bow out unless I get personal blow back and then I will defend my position.  Ignore me, I will ignore you henceforth.

 

Edited October 20, 2017 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

46 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Thanks for illustrating why so many of us don’t ever talk about it. Anyone who thinks people are sharing their experiences out of a desire to be lurid and marginally pornographic has bigger problems than being politically correct. 

Go in peace.  Of course I have big problems.   Don't we all?  

We are all in this together.

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

So you really want to hear every perverse and disgusting experience every Mormon on the board has had ?

Don't these belong in a therapist's office? Or perhaps with your Bishop? And here on a board about the gospel and it's defense? Why?

Nevermind, I choose to remain as politically incorrect as decency requires.  The problem needs to be addressed, but personal details that don't belong in a discussion of the problem seems lurid and marginally pornographic.

I would like to keep such images out if my head, and here they are.

Anybody got pictures?

These are mystifying times.

Wow...on this thread and the other one...I thought we were al communicating as adults with concern...for each other.

[mfbukowski]

On 10/19/2017 at 1:41 PM, smac97 said:

I intended to erase the post, but was having connectivity problems. That's why it is only partially done. My apologies.

Clearly I need to follow the example of smac.   But it's good to know I am not alone.

[mfbukowski]

3 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Wow...on this thread and the other one...I thought we were al communicating as adults with concern...for each other.

Concern for "each other?"  Who is that?

Only one one person here has commented under his own name and that is John.   I commend his courage.  Anonymity cuts both ways.  I stand for what I think and do it fully under my own name and take the consequences.   This is the internet and if you think people are going to discuss their true problems here, uh, you are sadly mistaken.

Edited October 20, 2017 by mfbukowski