JLHPROF Posted September 21, 2017 Author Posted September 21, 2017 Just now, Jeanne said: dum..da...dum..da dum! Really Jeanne?
thesometimesaint Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 55 minutes ago, stemelbow said: How influential can he be if he can't influence the Church to not close it and not change it, if'n they ever buy it? It is more valuable to us as a museum of Church History than it would be as a functioning Temple.
Jeanne Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Really Jeanne? Yeah....really...what could the church do with 35 million dollars that would be more beneficial. The printing press is very interesting...very historical...I love it..but this is dum da dum da dum.
rockpond Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 12 hours ago, JLHPROF said: The Church just announced the purchase of the printers manuscript of the Book of Mormon from the Community of Christ for $35 million in donor funds. (So not presumably not tithing). Bargain? Thoughts? Naturally the social media response is as expected - "Why didn't they by more xyz charitable items with the money". "Jesus would never approve". Does He? (Bold added by me.)
CV75 Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, rockpond said: Does He? (Bold added by me.) Yes. Now you have it in writing! 2
thesometimesaint Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Yeah....really...what could the church do with 35 million dollars that would be more beneficial. The printing press is very interesting...very historical...I love it..but this is dum da dum da dum. Tell us your budget and where you spend it. I'm sure we can make "helpful" suggestions. Edited September 21, 2017 by thesometimesaint 3
Jeanne Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 35 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: Tell us your budget and where you spend it. I'm sure we can make "helpful" suggestions. I hope so...always open to advice...but hey...I am using, saving my money...not somebody else's. Folks, we are going to make this a friendly place. Shade throwing derails have a good chance of putting you in the thread ban bin.
Popular Post JLHPROF Posted September 21, 2017 Author Popular Post Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Yeah....really...what could the church do with 35 million dollars that would be more beneficial. The printing press is very interesting...very historical...I love it..but this is dum da dum da dum. Then forget the Church for the moment. This was paid for by donors. If the donors had purchased the manuscript from the CofC personally and then donated it to the Church would you have an issue? The Church was given this money for the purpose of purchasing this item. That was the arrangement. It's not like they made a discretionary purchase with unallocated money. Edited September 21, 2017 by JLHPROF 7
Alan Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 The Community of Christ are in financial free-fall, so this will help them limp on for a few more years. They got a $40 million donation from a rich member back in 1999 and have squandered the lot on their "Transformation 2000" initiative. This was based on a ministerial recruitment programme which they expected would kick start a period of growth. The opposite happened and they have laid off ministers and reduced commitments every year. Personally, I think it's only a matter of time before they sell us the Kirtland Temple. 1
thesometimesaint Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 34 minutes ago, Jeanne said: I hope so...always open to advice...but hey...I am using, saving my money...not somebody else's. Sure. Sell all that you own and give the proceeds to the poor. Once you give someone money it is theirs to do with as they wish. If I want a return on investment it will be a loan with interest. Get back on topic please. 1
Alan Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 In the statement issued by Stephen Veasey (President of the Community of Christ) it says they have been negotiating for the sale of the Manuscript for a year. Apparently, the proceeds are to be used to meet pension liabilities for retired church ministers. They are disposing of $25 million of real estate for the same purpose. In light of the announcement that negotiations for the Printers Manuscript have been ongoing for a year, I found the following statement very interesting: "Negotiations are continuing to sell other historical assets not essential to mission".
JLHPROF Posted September 21, 2017 Author Posted September 21, 2017 21 minutes ago, Alan said: In the statement issued by Stephen Veasey (President of the Community of Christ) it says they have been negotiating for the sale of the Manuscript for a year. Apparently, the proceeds are to be used to meet pension liabilities for retired church ministers. They are disposing of $25 million of real estate for the same purpose. In light of the announcement that negotiations for the Printers Manuscript have been ongoing for a year, I found the following statement very interesting: "Negotiations are continuing to sell other historical assets not essential to mission". Personally I'd like it if they'd sell their Nauvoo holdings. Having toured Nauvoo repeatedly I think the Church could do a great job with tours of the Mansion House, Homestead, and the recreation of the Red Brick Store. But then again given the way the tours of the Beehive House have declined in recent years, maybe not. 2
ALarson Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Personally I'd like it if they'd sell their Nauvoo holdings. Having toured Nauvoo repeatedly I think the Church could do a great job with tours of the Mansion House, Homestead, and the recreation of the Red Brick Store. But then again given the way the tours of the Beehive House have declined in recent years, maybe not. I agree. I actually have very close friends who served a mission in Nauvoo and consider themselves experts on that era. I love this older couple dearly, but they absolutely do not know the real history surrounding that period of time in the church. They still believe that Joseph only married a few older women and that they were never his wives in this life. I have not been impressed with stories I've heard regarding the historical knowledge of most of the tour guides. I think the church could do a much better job of training and educating them They are like a deer in headlights when they are asked certain questions. Edited September 21, 2017 by ALarson 3
bluebell Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 1 hour ago, rockpond said: Does He? (Bold added by me.) I don't think the church would do something like this if they didn't believe that He was o.k. with it, do you?
Amulek Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 1 hour ago, ALarson said: A real game-changer would be something that was physical evidence proving that the Book of Mormon was historically factual. Now that would be a game-changer for most all members. (Such as finding and authenticating the gold plates, for example ) I suspect something like that would be a much bigger game-changer for non-members.
thesometimesaint Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 Sure. I have no problem at all with the Church buying the printers copy of the Book of Mormon. Apparently neither does the CoC.
bluebell Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, ALarson said: I agree. I actually have very close friends who served a mission in Nauvoo and consider themselves experts on that era. I love this older couple dearly, but they absolutely do not know the real history surrounding that period of time in the church. They still believe that Joseph only married a few older women and that they were never his wives in this life. I have not been impressed with stories I've heard regarding the historical knowledge of most of the tour guides. I think the church could do a much better job of training and educating them They are like a deer in headlights when they are asked certain questions. We toured the Beehive house about 6 years ago, and those poor sister missionaries.... After the tour was over I asked them where BY's other wives lived (because they made a big deal on the tour about showing his wife's bedroom, and never mentioned him having more than one). They never actually answered the question and just wanted to pretend like his other wives didn't exist. We were the only ones on the tour (it was early Sunday morning) and they knew we were active members so i doubt they could have had a friendlier tour group. I would hate to see what would happen with someone who was antagonistic towards the church or polygamy. 2
ALarson Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Amulek said: I suspect something like that would be a much bigger game-changer for non-members. Yes, but just as big for some members too. I know of many who struggle with this especially since the DNA issues came out. Several in our ward no longer believe it is historically factual, but do believe it's an inspired book. So it would be a game-changer for these members for sure. Edited September 21, 2017 by ALarson
rongo Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Alan said: The Community of Christ are in financial free-fall, so this will help them limp on for a few more years. But wait! I thought that becoming more theological liberal --- especially with women ordination and gay marriage --- would result in our church thriving and expanding. CoC is often held out as an exemplar for us. Do you mean to tell me that the Church could go into financial free fall (and membership free fall) if it "went CoC?" I'm shocked! Shocked, I say! 4
champatsch Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 5 hours ago, smac97 said: Quote The Community of Christ purchased the manuscript {in 1903} as part of a collection that cost $2,500. According to Hajicek, the LDS Church had the opportunity to purchase the manuscript then also and turned it down. D'oh! According to Westegg.com, $2,500 in 1903 dollars is equivalent to $67,727.29 in 2016 dollars. The LDS church was offered the manuscript at a price of $10,000. It may have been Joseph Fielding Smith who advised his father not to make the purchase, considering it not as the unique copy it is, but as another copy. To be fair, the church was not in a financially sound position at that time. It was in debt. In this age of printing money and massive government debt, the $35m is, crazily, a more affordable price than the $10k of yesteryear. 1
Duncan Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 I saw this comment online and thought it was funny!!! "How do you recuperate $35 million used to buy a crucial historical artifact? Start selling caffeinated drinks at BYU. A week of sales should do it." 3
RevTestament Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: Where did you get this timetable that they are "going to flock to the Church within a decade anyway"? We don't need their Temple, if memory serves it is not on part of the Temple lot. I'll chalk it up to personal revelation. I really can't say what each individual member of their church will do, but if they believe the BoM at all, they will come. My point was not about their temple, although with some remodeling, I am sure it could be put to good use. My point is that they would have brought the manuscript with them. But, hey, if donors want to buy it for this much, who am I to argue?
rockpond Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, bluebell said: I don't think the church would do something like this if they didn't believe that He was o.k. with it, do you? We've done plenty of things that He later told us to reverse. I have no reason to believe that He was involved in this particular decision. It doesn't really strike me as something Christ would support. Others likely differ in opinion. OTOH, we could look at it as extending a lifeline to the Community of Christ. And that's not a bad thing. Edited September 21, 2017 by rockpond
Recommended Posts