Daily scripture study

[bluebell]

22 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

I do think its motivation by fear, you nailed it.  Its fear of breaking a cultural expectation that Mormonism has created.  That is it exactly.  

And these aren't people I've never met, I'm an active member with friends and family who are orthodox, I've served a mission and been enmeshed in orthodox Mormonism my whole life.  These are my people too, not a bunch of strangers.

And that's one of the reasons that I disagree with your use of it.  You have taken your opinion about why people do something and labeled it as an inferior way to be in the world (using yourself as the superior, more enlightened, example).

These may be your people, but you don't have the right to speak for them.  I've been a member since I was 10, served a mission, all that stuff too and I can't think of a single person who would agree that they don't watch R rated movies because they are afraid of breaking a cultural expectation.

They don't watch R rated movies because they don't believe God wants them to.  You watch rated R movies because you don't think God cares.  There's not much more to it than that. 

Edited May 4, 2017 by bluebell

[juliann]

41 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

I was raised on Young Adult fiction and still enjoy it as a form of entertainment.  Whether its books, or avoiding rated R movies, I think that many church members conscientiously avoid consuming things that they find challenging to their world view.  It's honestly quite understandable, especially considering the rhetoric of avoiding evil "philosophies of men".  Its a self perpetuating mechanism that keeps your average member quite naive about many things.  

I'm not sure you understand why R rated is avoided unless I am misunderstanding what you mean by "worldview." I don't go by ratings anymore because even milder ratings can be offensive now. I don't watch movies that use the F word every sentence anymore than I would watch a movie where they used "like" or "you know" every sentence. It is mind numbing. I really don't like the soft porn and that is the biggest reason I avoid movies. I don't like gratuitous violence....unless it is the syfi make believe kind but even then if it crosses over to sadism, I'm out. 

So I'm not sure that is a worldview other than a jaundiced view of the toxic  mysogynist and racist Hollywood culture. 

[hope_for_things]

4 minutes ago, bluebell said:

And that's one of the reasons that I disagree with your use of it.  You have taken your opinion about why people do something and labeled it as an inferior way to be in the world (using yourself as the superior, more enlightened, example).

These may be your people, but you don't have the right to speak for them.  I've been a member since I was 10, served a mission, all that stuff too and I can't think of a single person who would agree that they don't watch R rated movies because they are afraid of breaking a cultural expectation.

They don't watch R rated movies because they don't believe God wants them to.  You watch rated R movies because you don't think God cares.  There's not much more to it than that. 

I have as much a right to speak for them as you have a right to speak for them. Our rights to speak for our experience are equal.

Also, I never used the words more enlightened or superior, please don't associate me with those words.  There are many orthodox believers that are superior individuals than myself.  I don't find myself more enlightened.  I do find the Mormon taboo on R rated movies for grown adults to be limiting and immature.  I think its childish and naive and holds people back from adult development. I believe there is much to gain from wrestling with the more difficult challenges of the human experience as expressed in more adult targeted books and movies.   

How can you separate the motivation to doing the will of God from fear of God's retribution?  Each individual will have to speak for themselves for sure.  I can tell you that my religious motivations were a combination of the two, both a desire to do what I believed God wanted (hoping for blessings) and a desire to avoid consequences for breaking commandments (fear of punishment).

[Rain]

7 hours ago, stemelbow said:

An addition,

What does "daily scripture study" entail for everyone?

 

 

It varies for me. I do go back and forth between the 4 standard works and conference talks.

Overall, instead of reading a specified amount I read a specified time. I shoot for 30 minutes. Sometimes I go shorter, sometimes longer. 

What I do varies as well. Right now I am reading through the BoM, watching for writers that share about being inspired in some way and the doctrine that surrounds their thinking. 

After this, I will be "walking with Jesus". I created an endomondo app challenge that has you walking so many miles. I also created a Google sbeets where I did my best to line up where Jesus went with the scriptures that go along with them. Then you walk so many miles and read the scriptures that go with them, using the map to keep track. I actually started that last year, a bunch of things happened so I quit, but am now excited to start it again. Now that I have also been to Israel I expect there to be more to what I get from it.

I also have been a big reader, though not as much lately. I'm slowly working through Bednar's "Increase in Learning" (how I got started on the BoM course I am on), "What Can I Do About Me?" (Suggested to me because I had concerns about a family member going through this), 7 Habits for Highly Effective People. Just read Blink and am supposed to be reading The Great Divorce, both for book club next week, but I don't know if I will get to that.

Anyway, I have found there IS a difference in scripture reading than in other sell help or whatever books. It is subtle, and like Rongo says, one drop at a time. When I am consistent with it I see more in those other books. See where they have things that will help me, see where they are off on things etc.

When I am consistent and miss a day I feel it more. I don't know that it is the scripture content all the time (I'm in war chapters now and I am struggling to find what I am looking for in them much), but perhaps some of it is the obedience that comes from reading them. 

I struggle to read scriptures. Sometimes really struggle. I keep working on it thought because somehow, whatever it is, I find something is missing when I don't  - even when I continue to read the other books, do yoga etc.

[hope_for_things]

14 minutes ago, juliann said:

I'm not sure you understand why R rated is avoided unless I am misunderstanding what you mean by "worldview." I don't go by ratings anymore because even milder ratings can be offensive now. I don't watch movies that use the F word every sentence anymore than I would watch a movie where they used "like" or "you know" every sentence. It is mind numbing. I really don't like the soft porn and that is the biggest reason I avoid movies. I don't like gratuitous violence....unless it is the syfi make believe kind but even then if it crosses over to sadism, I'm out. 

So I'm not sure that is a worldview other than a jaundiced view of the toxic  mysogynist and racist Hollywood culture. 

See one of my previous posts were I addressed all three items, language, sex, and violence in more detail.

I think what you are missing is that these things are supposed to make you feel uncomfortable.  I used to think that feeling uncomfortable was a bad thing and should be avoided.  I really was wired to avoid conflict, this is a personality trait and a product of my upbringing.  I always avoided things that made me feel bad or negative thoughts and emotions.  

I don't see Hollywood as a monolithic culture, certainly there are trends, but you can find many different views being portrayed by different movies and directors.  One thing that I've tried to do, and one of the reasons I participate in boards like this and continue to listen to all kinds of different opinions politically and religiously, is that I think there is value in trying to understand the perspectives of others.  I believe there is value in my continuing to grapple with the disagreeable.  As soon as I start avoiding everything I find uncomfortable, then I worry that I'll stop progressing and growing.  

[Rain]

5 hours ago, rockpond said:

Like others, my daily study is Book of Mormon reading with my family supplemented with listening to gen con talks occasionally.

And my personal study is more topical... focused on digging into the scriptural basis of the lessons that I am scheduled to teach and Duty to God topics (since I am serving in YM) and reading from the "best books" for added insight and inspiration.

Also, since I drive a lot, I love using the audio version of the scriptures that is included in the LDS Library app.  I find that sometimes I get a new perspective from hearing a chapter read to me that I didn't get when reading it myself.

I found this when I was preparing a Gospel Principles lesson. I had a video of something in Christ's life that I showed. Seeing it, rather than just reading it, also gave me a new perspective.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

We define 'challenging your world view' differently.  Maybe Hope defines it like you do.

I still think it's kind of an odd definition though because it means that anything you choose not to (because you don't think it's moral, for example), you choose not to do because it is challenging to your world view.

Is that how you would define the moral standards  you follow?  Is that the reason that you don't do things you don't believe anyone should do?

That's not how I define my moral standards or why I follow them.

 

If movies challenged "world views" (personal paradigms), members wouldn't be watching them at all even when edited for vulgarity, sex, and violence in my view.

[CV75]

50 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Your example is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about.  Benson certainly started the movement specifically with the BoM and that kind of rhetoric is common and has been repeated frequently by other leaders.  You rarely hear specific supernatural expectations tied to a behavior.  The WoW is the only place that I can think of where specific promises are proclaimed. Words that convey a power and protection to reading the scriptures I believe many members interpret as a supernatural expectation they consider very real, I know I did.  

He is not talking about behavior alone, but of a practice involving a particular attitude and faith ("serious study"). There are spiritual benefits tied to many faith-based practices: tithing, fasting, honoring your parents, baptism, the new and everlasting covenant of marriage, receiving the priesthood, etc., etc., etc. -- hardly rare at all. Why is the WoW the only one you can think of? Why do you refer to these practices and blessings as "supernatural" when we use "spiritual" when describing the benefits of our beliefs and practices?

“There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.” Is there a problem with articulating any one of them? President Benson is articulating the spiritual benefits of a serious study of the Book of Mormon.

“For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.”

[Rain]

5 hours ago, rongo said:

Heaven, hell, the spirit world. It is fascinating, a good read, and has a lot of LDS affinity. My wife's friend who really struggles with some things let us borrow hers, and we read it and my wife gave it to me for Christmas. 

One thing I really like is the rationalizations from many characters as to why they don't actually want to go to heaven. They think they do, but they really don't when it comes down to it. The book traces a bus boarding to its destination, and the different takes on different things holding many people bound to earth (the tellestial world) are brilliant. The central message is that when people finally, *really* determine that all they want is to accept the atonement, then they are free. There are good people in the book who just don't want to let go of some of their earthbound things. Some people insist on boarding the bus and going back.

On interesting part, that is not doctrinal (to Lewis or to us --- he makes it clear not to take the analogy too far) is that everything in heaven hurts the spirit bodies --- walking on grass, toughing water in streams, everything. Many turn back because of the pain, but the guides tell people that if they will persevere, their bodies will become accustomed to it and become stronger. 

I guess the thing I liked best was the different vignettes of people and their earth-selves and their hangups they didn't want to let go of. I was impressed at his ability to come up with such a range of "types" that hit home. 

You can read it in like maybe two hours, if that.

Thank you for saying that! It's on the menu for book club next week if I can read it that fast.

[hope_for_things]

5 minutes ago, CV75 said:

He is not talking about behavior alone, but of a practice involving a particular attitude and faith ("serious study"). There are spiritual benefits tied to many faith-based practices: tithing, fasting, honoring your parents, baptism, the new and everlasting covenant of marriage, receiving the priesthood, etc., etc., etc. -- hardly rare at all. Why is the WoW the only one you can think of? Why do you refer to these practices and blessings as "supernatural" when we use "spiritual" when describing the benefits of our beliefs and practices?

“There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.” Is there a problem with articulating any one of them? President Benson is articulating the spiritual benefits of a serious study of the Book of Mormon.

“For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.”

Yeah, its difficult to draw a distinct line between the two, spiritual blessings and tangible blessings, thats what I was getting at, but you make some good points that make me think its pretty gray.  I was trying to say that something in the WoW promising physical strength or endurance is different than something promising light and knowledge or increased faith.  However, I can think of examples where the two categories are mixed. 

One example would be tithing, since you mentioned that.  The scriptures talk about tithing bringing blessings, like opening the windows of heaven (wouldn't that have produced rain?), yet that doesn't stop members from having a testimony that paying tithing led to them getting help from an anonymous person just right when they needed the help financially, or in my parents case their payments of tithing helped our cars to run longer than normal because we couldn't afford a new vehicle.  Things like that are common enough now that I think of it.  

[Stargazer]

9 hours ago, stemelbow said:

What does reading the scriptures daily give us?

Is there magic in such an action? 

Or is it possible we gain just as much if we read other things, meditate on other teachings daily? 

Maybe it's not our canonical scriptures that carry great influence but the act of reading, pondering and praying.  If so, can't we read many things and get inspiration, just as much or more so? 

I'd say yes.  what does everyone else think?

Much in the same vein as the Lord chastising the Brother of Jared for not communicating with Him for a lengthy period is my concern that the Lord is going to chastise me for being a complete pickle when it comes to regular scripture study.  

After my mission I got very lax about it.  I'm still lax about it.  And I am not very happy with myself -- how much more could I have learned if I had disciplined myself to it?  Lot's I'm pretty sure, because when I have occasionally gotten into the scriptures I found that I was learning a lot, finding that verses I had read previously now had more to say to me.

So yes, I think there is much magic in it.  Not only for the information, both explicit and spirit-granted, but also for the closeness to the spirit that such study should naturally endow us with.

And it is possible to gain much reading other things, as well, depending upon what they are.  For example, JHLPROF's current sig contains a Brigham Young quote that just tickled me pink.

[juliann]

1 hour ago, hope_for_things said:

 

I think what you are missing is that these things are supposed to make you feel uncomfortable.  I used to think that feeling uncomfortable was a bad thing and should be avoided.  I really was wired to avoid conflict, this is a personality trait and a product of my upbringing.  I always avoided things that made me feel bad or negative thoughts and emotions.  

 

Seriously? Watching increasingly violent and misogynist films is good because being uncomfortable is good? What is good about gratuitous rape scenes, or the nonstop grandpa leads wooing young women, the foul language, the lack of female roles for older women, and on and on. What really made me roll my eyes was the same day Trump was exposed for his awful woman grabbing comment, I heard the same word on a very popular TV show.  

I'm really wired to avoid soul destroying visual and audio images. 

[Stargazer]

6 hours ago, stemelbow said:

I remember reading screwtapes 20 some odd years ago, just after my mission and as we all made a fuss about whats-his-name getting quoted by GAs so much I had to read something from him.  I like playing devils advocate so I thought I"d enjoy it.  Didn't work.  I barely remember it. 

I found Screwtape to be tedious and tendentious.  Not a fan.

But Mere Christianity, on the other hand...

The odd thing about Mere Christianity was that I had never actually heard of C S Lewis until I was in the US Army and found myself on board a amphibious assault ship sailing up the west coast of the US, and the USO provided us all with cases and cases of paperback books.  I found Mere Christianity in the stack, was intrigued by the title and started reading it.  I found it quite delightful and inspiring.  But The Screwtape Letters really annoyed me.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Stargazer

[Rain]

6 hours ago, bluebell said:

Haha!  Your books sound awesome.  But, I also LOVE Harry Potter!  I read it for the first time two years ago because people kept hounding me about it and I had to admit that they were right.  Those books are amazing.  But I like fiction and nonfiction equally.

I had NO interest in Harry Potter. I like fuction, but I don't like fantasy.

My husband started reading the books home to my kids. Then he brought home the first movie. I saw bits and pieces of that movie and others till the  3rd movie  or 4the movie came out. Then I finally saw the first, then second and so on. 

The kids like the books a lot and I love just having fun so one day we were in Walmart and there was a line for the one of the books. My husband was out of town. It seemed like a party so me and the kids hopped in line.

Then the next time we did the next line for the book along with activities (ended that night with a child throwing up in the van over vomit Bertie Botts jelly beans. And then the next book. Never having read a single one of them. 

Finally I had watched all the movies and the 6th was coming out and I figured I should probrably read them and read them all that summer before the movie csme out. 

I didn't love them,  but I did enjoy them. 

[Stargazer]

4 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

From my experience, many members just shun all R rated movies.  I used to proudly do this in my orthodox days, and many of my orthodox friends and family members do this currently.  One evidence of this phenomina are the companies that find great appeal from Mormons like Cleanflix, Clearplay, Vidangel.  

Are you saying that you don't see Mormon's actively avoiding R rated movies?  If so, I'm not sure which church you've been attending, as this has been part of my experience throughout my lifetime.  I even encountered a Bishop on my mission who told me that he asked members whether they were watching R rated movies as part of his temple recommend interviews.  

This could be the seed of a derail, but when I told my British soon-to-be wife that I would selectively watch R-rated movies, she said that she wouldn't watch them.  I asked what rating was her "maximum", and she said "15".  It turns out that she thought I was OK with watching some "18" rated films, but no, those are NC-17 here in the US.  Our "R" rating is the top end of their "15".  In other words, in the UK, 15 year olds are permitted to watch R-rated films.

You can see what a crazy-quilt of film rating systems are in the world here: Wikipedia.  There are PG-13 rated films that I would stay far away from.

[CV75]

2 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

Yeah, its difficult to draw a distinct line between the two, spiritual blessings and tangible blessings, thats what I was getting at, but you make some good points that make me think its pretty gray.  I was trying to say that something in the WoW promising physical strength or endurance is different than something promising light and knowledge or increased faith.  However, I can think of examples where the two categories are mixed. 

One example would be tithing, since you mentioned that.  The scriptures talk about tithing bringing blessings, like opening the windows of heaven (wouldn't that have produced rain?), yet that doesn't stop members from having a testimony that paying tithing led to them getting help from an anonymous person just right when they needed the help financially, or in my parents case their payments of tithing helped our cars to run longer than normal because we couldn't afford a new vehicle.  Things like that are common enough now that I think of it.  

Yes, and a big one I forgot is the Sabbath Day (D&C 59), lots of temporal and spiritual blessings entailed in that. Back to President Benson's remarks, things like increasing your personal power to resist temptation, avoid deception and stay on the strait and narrow path -- lead a spiritual life -- are all spiritual. The "words of life" and the "abundant life" refer to eternal life and the hope it brings us to enjoy a piece of it here. I think it would aid the discussion if you wouldn't refer to these things as "supernatural" in light of your LDS upbringing and knowing that this is not how we speak of them. It would be like someone describing your practices as alexithymic.

[Rain]

11 hours ago, stemelbow said:

I believe his point is the rule is no rated R movies just incase they say the F word, have sex scenes, or have people getting gutted (all of which can be challenging).  In so doing a blanket dismissal like this can keep members from experience some really good, inspiring and thoughtful movies. 

I sort of have that rule. The thing I've found is that I can find plenty of really good, inspiring and thoughtful entertainment that are nor rated R. It's not liked I have endless time on my hands. Why not make it easier and just throw out things that include language etc that I don't want? 

I'm ok with you (general you) watching R movies. Why does it matter if I choose not to watch them? Why does this make me an unthinking person?

My daughter came to me a couple of weeks ago. The professor was going to show an R rated movie. She had an alternate available, but required more homework if you chose to watch that instead. I reminded her again that the ratings are not perfect . That some things rated R had less adult content than some PG13 or PG movies. That I had always encouraged to not just look at ratings, but content. Then I suggested she do that and choose.

Oddly, the professor didn't tell them what the movie was when asked. She wanted it to be a "surprise", but odder still at one point she showed part of the cover. My daughter searched for it and then chose to watch for it.

It isn't that it is a blanket rule for me so I don't have to think. It's just that there are plenty of things to do and I make a choice of doing those things instead of researching rated R movies to see if I want to go to them, especially since most of the time I would end up choosing not to go because of content -violence being the big one since that makes me squeemish. 

Edited May 5, 2017 by Rain

[BlueDreams]

16 hours ago, stemelbow said:

What does reading the scriptures daily give us?

Is there magic in such an action? 

Or is it possible we gain just as much if we read other things, meditate on other teachings daily? 

Maybe it's not our canonical scriptures that carry great influence but the act of reading, pondering and praying.  If so, can't we read many things and get inspiration, just as much or more so? 

I'd say yes.  what does everyone else think?

I read many things and get inspiration from them. It's just not the same for me. I don't think it's magic, but the promises of the books. I have seen things that may seem magical, particularly with the BoM. Things that doesn't make sense to me even now. But again, I don't think it makes it magical....I generally don't think of just about anything spiritually oriented as "magical" just of God. It could be that what I read and ponder currently is largely psych books or deeper movies/art or news articles and opinion pieces (heaven knows the news articles aren't what I'd consider restorative to the soul). They all give me different things. Psych books give me introspection about my own experiences and ideas for my clients. I find things that I can then apply to my job. Deeper movies/art give me moments of pause about social experiences and symbolism. Art probably comes closest, since I've felt the Spirit while painting. Sometimes painting certain things feels like a form of worship....but it also eats at my soul and my back. I finish accomplished but tired. News articles and whatnot gives me perspectives about what's happening in the world. Someone mentioned yoga....and yoga can sometimes crack into some pent up emotions and relax my tension. These are forms of inspiration, but that's not all that scriptures give me.

For me it brings a form of peace and centeredness. It also gives me a conduit to God and answers that I'm desperately needing for my soul. It gives me a deeper integration/knowledge into my faith, and a form of anchoring of sorts when I read regularly. And it can act as a tying agent to all the other ways that I learn. 

Do other things come close...or worked in replacement? Yeah. I mentioned painting. Beyond that, there's my PB and when I was on my mission I had a problem that sometimes made it difficult to concentrate where the only thing I could read and focus was on the ensign. Haven't had that happen before or since then.

I don't think I think of reading pondering and praying as ritualistic for me but relational. It's that relationship with Deity that makes scripture study for me worthwhile.  

15 hours ago, stemelbow said:

An addition,

What does "daily scripture study" entail for everyone?

Currently, a few things.

When it's late and I'm toast I do "one hit wonders" where I look for things or topics that I've highlighted that have meaning or connection for me.

I'm working through the BoM in spanish as well. Oddly, when it's something I need to learn or know the passage become chrystal clear as to its meaning whereas the ones before or after were less so. 

I usually topic study or go through interlinking verses when it's not the above. Sometimes this entails adding to the notes I have in my gospel library and adding to them

 

With luv,

BD

Edited May 5, 2017 by BlueDreams

[strappinglad]

Why do people do anything? Take Home Teaching...please. We are asked to do our home teaching. If we do it, why do we do it? Are we trying to please our leaders? Are we trying to get that 100% star? Do we do it out of duty? or commitment ? or covenant? Do we do it out of love for the Lord, or love of our neighbor? Is there a better reason to do it and a worse one? Do we gain anything spiritually by doing it faithfully?

[bluebell]

15 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

I have as much a right to speak for them as you have a right to speak for them. Our rights to speak for our experience are equal.

Also, I never used the words more enlightened or superior, please don't associate me with those words.  There are many orthodox believers that are superior individuals than myself.  I don't find myself more enlightened.  I do find the Mormon taboo on R rated movies for grown adults to be limiting and immature.  I think its childish and naive and holds people back from adult development. I believe there is much to gain from wrestling with the more difficult challenges of the human experience as expressed in more adult targeted books and movies.   

How can you separate the motivation to doing the will of God from fear of God's retribution?  Each individual will have to speak for themselves for sure.  I can tell you that my religious motivations were a combination of the two, both a desire to do what I believed God wanted (hoping for blessings) and a desire to avoid consequences for breaking commandments (fear of punishment).

So you're world view isn't more superior or enlightened, just more grown up and mature?

Edited May 5, 2017 by bluebell

[BlueDreams]

16 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

I've had a change of perspective recently on this issue, and just so you know, I didn't start watching rated R movies until just recently (in the past 1-2 years) and I began to lose my orthodox beliefs about 4 years ago, so I still avoided R rated movies for about 2 years before I decided to start watching them.  Here are things that I've noticed.

1.  Adult language - I don't love hearing the F word, its not a word I use in my own personal conversation.  Its something I encourage my kids not to say, but my reasons for not liking it have changed.  I don't think God is displeased with the word anymore, meaning I don't think the word by itself is an evil word.  Its a word with a meaning and its harsh and strong and in the right context it portrays harsh and strong emotion.  I see it as part of culture and society and I don't find myself as sensitive about its use anymore.  It doesn't offend me.   

2. Sex scenes - I used to think these were the penultimate reason to avoid R rated movies in the past.  I'm one of those people who closed his eyes during Titanic with the topless scene (I've still never seen that part).  Anyway, my views have changed on this too.  I don't feel the same level of taboo about sex as I used to.  The church's stigma that a person's mind is tainted somehow by seeing these things I don't subscribe to anymore, and I've found the opposite effect as I've watched some sex scenes in movies now.  I might not pay as close attention during certain parts, but I don't have the same feeling that I need to avoid things as I used to.  

3. Violence - What I've found with violence is that it still has an impact on me.  I've always been somewhat squeamish, I could never be a doctor, and even though my wife and I loved CSI, I always had a hard time with the more graphic and bloody depictions.  I don't let this stop me from seeing good quality movies though, and I find that especially with the well done war movies that I flinch at these scenes and they make me uncomfortable.  The difference is I allow that discomfort to shape what I get out of the film, as I'm sure that the director is intending the discomfort, this is part of the experience and I think it has helped me to grow as I appreciate better the real impact that violence has had on the world through the medium of film.

All of the above I consider culturally conditioned by Mormonism and I do think they challenge the Mormon world view.  Its the taboo nature of these things that is being challenged.  

 

So I read all the posts about R-rated movies, from curiosity about what you guys were talking about. Since you referenced looking at this first, I looked at this first. For the record, I carefully select and watch some rated R movies. I have vacillated between both experiences: watching some R-rated movies and not watching any, depending the time in my life. But currently its back to some carefully selected R, NR, or MA movies and shows.

 So here's my list 

1. Adult language - I currently cuss....especially for therapy. I find it's a way to follow the conversation of some of my clients and allow them to express as they please and also to make strong statements to people who are soft-pedaling hurt. I try to limit my cussing outside of that because it bothers me. Cussing is tied to me to my most angry and volatile period of my life. I wasn't happy. So I cussed. A lot. I don't like watching tons of cussing. An errant f-bomb is ok. One every other word starts to grate on me quickly. Too much of other words will also bother me. I'll end up turning it off. Vidangel was my bud for a while on this. Its not a cultural discomfort its a loss of centeredness where it feels as though it offends the spirit. I'm not a fan of the icky feeling it gives. I haven't seen a movie where 80 f-bombs magically made it better or deeper. 

2. Sex scenes - needless to say, I am least sensitive to these....but I can also be most sensitive to it if it's gratuitous, excessive, violent, or has no real value or context. For example I started watching Dear White People on Netflix the other day. I had to skip through several scenes because the sex was just too much, didn't really serve much of a purpose, and it was beginning to grate on me after a while...even though I was painting a room and only half paying attention. Sometimes the sex scenes can really irritate me because they feel so stupid, unreal, and male-oriented in experience. But I have no problem watching Harlots so far, go figure. But even with Harlots I don't feel magically more enlightened. I have nearly no taboo when it comes to sex IRL. I've talk about the clitoris in the celestial room and ED right outside it. But I still do not like the sense that some movies come with in sex scenes. Again, I feel de-centered and I feel an absence of spirit and I'm not okay with that.

3. Violence - I have the hardest time with. Excess violence really really gets to me. I can hand gun shots  that aren't too graphic, overly CGI'd zombie violence that looks way to fake, alien violence (feels fake again), etc. But realistic violence I avoid a lot. I've only watched a handful of violent movies....and I had to screen them excessively beforehand to make sure I could handle them. And then make space for them for me to decompress after, especially if this wasn't with any filtering. I don't find a lot of value it it. Even in war movies. There was exactly one movie that I can think of where the excess violence was actually very symbolic and used in sharp contrast for a memorable scene that stalled all violence, making the temporary reprieve bringing me close to tears. This was before my mission, I don't think I could watch it now. 

I consider what I just wrote and what you just wrote NOT simply about challenging a mormon world view or mormon cultural conditioning....they're more indicators of us than some greater cultural context. The taboo for you may be challenged, but I've been swimming in these waters for a long time. I don't feel those being challenged when I watch a movie that ends up being too violent, into gratuitous sex, or littered with f-bombs. For me and my experience its the spirit and the concern of become too desensitized to things that my maturation and development and education says "uh-no." 

15 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

I have as much a right to speak for them as you have a right to speak for them. Our rights to speak for our experience are equal.

Also, I never used the words more enlightened or superior, please don't associate me with those words.  There are many orthodox believers that are superior individuals than myself.  I don't find myself more enlightened.  I do find the Mormon taboo on R rated movies for grown adults to be limiting and immature.  I think its childish and naive and holds people back from adult development. I believe there is much to gain from wrestling with the more difficult challenges of the human experience as expressed in more adult targeted books and movies.   

How can you separate the motivation to doing the will of God from fear of God's retribution?  Each individual will have to speak for themselves for sure.  I can tell you that my religious motivations were a combination of the two, both a desire to do what I believed God wanted (hoping for blessings) and a desire to avoid consequences for breaking commandments (fear of punishment).

I have been both the "no r-rated" camp and not. I didn't find the taboo somehow an indication of limitation and immaturity. And I sure as heck don't see how when I watched r-rated content that it somehow enhanced my adult development. When I was younger it was often a bit of a deterrence. That angry spell I mentioned was deeply helped by a music detox where I basically only listened to classical music for about a year. Several of the things in my life that have developed me the most were well outside of media influence. These experiences made me more compassionate, patient, spiritually in tune, and accepting of nuance and differences. I remember on my mission particularly having a moment where I saw a magazine, recognized the actors from a show I watched, and realized I couldn't remember the show's name. I couldn't remember half of what I watched. I watch an inordinate amount of shows, usually when I'm doing mundane tasks. It's entertainment, not enrichment 85% of the time. I do watch things that make me think and I find enlightening. But at least half of that (if not more) are documentaries with little to no sex, language, or violence portrayed. I haven't found much to gain to the R-rated movies I've watched when it comes to difficult challenges of the human experience. 

It may have helped you in some ways. That's yours. But this certainly doesn't represent others. And for the record I'm very rarely worried about God's retribution in my decisions at this point. At a younger age, yes. But at this point it has basically nothing to do with anything I do. All those moments when I mention offending the spirit or feeling decentered isn't about punishment to me but a deep intrinsic desire for me to be close to God above all else. I would give up every TV show and movie I watched if I felt it seriously withdraw me from the spirit or if I felt that's what God was asking of me. 

 

With luv,

BD

[stemelbow]

13 hours ago, Rain said:

I sort of have that rule. The thing I've found is that I can find plenty of really good, inspiring and thoughtful entertainment that are nor rated R. It's not liked I have endless time on my hands. Why not make it easier and just throw out things that include language etc that I don't want? 

I'm ok with you (general you) watching R movies. Why does it matter if I choose not to watch them? Why does this make me an unthinking person?

It doesn't.  Didn't mean to suggest it did.

13 hours ago, Rain said:

My daughter came to me a couple of weeks ago. The professor was going to show an R rated movie. She had an alternate available, but required more homework if you chose to watch that instead. I reminded her again that the ratings are not perfect . That some things rated R had less adult content than some PG13 or PG movies. That I had always encouraged to not just look at ratings, but content. Then I suggested she do that and choose.

Oddly, the professor didn't tell them what the movie was when asked. She wanted it to be a "surprise", but odder still at one point she showed part of the cover. My daughter searched for it and then chose to watch for it.

It isn't that it is a blanket rule for me so I don't have to think. It's just that there are plenty of things to do and I make a choice of doing those things instead of researching rated R movies to see if I want to go to them, especially since most of the time I would end up choosing not to go because of content -violence being the big one since that makes me squeemish. 

 

[stemelbow]

20 hours ago, Garden Girl said:

I don't know whose "constricting" view you're suggesting or referring to.. certainly not from anything I said, and certainly not from the Church's view or the Church's admonition to seek from the best books, etc...

ETA:  The other day I rented the R-rated but much lauded and award winning movie Casey Affleck won best actor for (I'm having a senior moment and can't remember the title but will think of it later I know,,, hate it when I do that)... anyway, because it won so many awards etc I thought it would be all right... but 10 minutes into it I had to turn it off... the "F" word and other profanity was prevalent in practically every sentence... WHY do moviemakers think such profanity enhances the movie?!!!  I'm sure the story was great and regret not being able to see it... but I just can't let such language bruise my spirit...  A very different scenario last month when I rented "Hacksaw Ridge"... a war story based on the true, heroic efforts of one conscientious objector soldier... R-rated for realistic wartime violence, but no profanity... it was a terrific film.

GG

I am suggesting the mere fact that Church teaches us to read the scripture each day to presumable get the Spirit and learn from God is constricting.  You can get those things without reading the scriptures.  I'm not saying reading the scriptures doesn't help.  But it's certainly not an only source. 

[BlueDreams]

19 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I am suggesting the mere fact that Church teaches us to read the scripture each day to presumable get the Spirit and learn from God is constricting.  You can get those things without reading the scriptures.  I'm not saying reading the scriptures doesn't help.  But it's certainly not an only source. 

How is that constricting when the church also states to seek out other good things from other sources as well? I've never heard it insisted that that is the only thing one should do to get the Spirit and learn from God, just an essential part of it. 

 

With luv,

BD

[stemelbow]

Just now, BlueDreams said:

How is that constricting when the church also states to seek out other good things from other sources as well? I've never heard it insisted that that is the only thing one should do to get the Spirit and learn from God, just an essential part of it. 

 

With luv,

BD

Why do you think the Church requests us to read from the scriptures daily?  is it not because they are the magical source to get the Spirit and learnings that we can't get elsewhere?  That's the message I've always gotten.  From what else does the Church suggest we read daily?