Daily scripture study

[stemelbow]

28 minutes ago, Garden Girl said:

Good morning stemelbow... 

You act like the Church's view is that we read ONLY the scriptures every day...

Well, that's not my intent.

28 minutes ago, Garden Girl said:

I follow the admonition to have daily scripture study, but in addition to other inspirational writings from poetry to history to art to any number of uplifting or educational materials.  While my scripture study fills my soul like no other writings can, I enjoy what I attempt to be a well rounded, diverse circle of study... I also follow the admonition to seek from the best books... I don't find that to be constricting at all...

from the beach on a welcome rain-free day... GG

it's good to go outside of scripture in oru readings of course.  But I'd say to suggest such inspiration as God's Spirit, or that we only gain oil in our lamps to read only the scriptures daily is a constricting view. 

[bluebell]

18 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

I was raised on Young Adult fiction and still enjoy it as a form of entertainment.  Whether its books, or avoiding rated R movies, I think that many church members conscientiously avoid consuming things that they find challenging to their world view.  It's honestly quite understandable, especially considering the rhetoric of avoiding evil "philosophies of men".  Its a self perpetuating mechanism that keeps your average member quite naive about many things.  

This doesn't make much sense to me.  

Which rated R movies do you think members are skipping because they would challenge their world view?  If this is the reason that members don't watch those kinds of movies it should be really easy to come up with lots of examples.

 

[rockpond]

1 hour ago, juliann said:

I broke the bank and ordered this http://www.bibliotheca.co/#about

I have the reader's edition of the BOM, too. It really is a more satisfying read to have it in the original form of a document rather than the artificially chopped up and numbered stuff we are used to now.

Agreed... I love the Reader's Edition!  You might also enjoy Hardy's companion book:  Understanding the Book of Mormon:  A Reader's Guide.  He covers the things he learned in studying and creating the Reader's Edition.  Good stuff.

[hope_for_things]

10 minutes ago, bluebell said:

This doesn't make much sense to me.  

Which rated R movies do you think members are skipping because they would challenge their world view?  If this is the reason that members don't watch those kinds of movies it should be really easy to come up with lots of examples.

 

From my experience, many members just shun all R rated movies.  I used to proudly do this in my orthodox days, and many of my orthodox friends and family members do this currently.  One evidence of this phenomina are the companies that find great appeal from Mormons like Cleanflix, Clearplay, Vidangel.  

Are you saying that you don't see Mormon's actively avoiding R rated movies?  If so, I'm not sure which church you've been attending, as this has been part of my experience throughout my lifetime.  I even encountered a Bishop on my mission who told me that he asked members whether they were watching R rated movies as part of his temple recommend interviews.  

[Guest]

5 hours ago, stemelbow said:

What does reading the scriptures daily give us?

Is there magic in such an action? 

Or is it possible we gain just as much if we read other things, meditate on other teachings daily? 

Maybe it's not our canonical scriptures that carry great influence but the act of reading, pondering and praying.  If so, can't we read many things and get inspiration, just as much or more so? 

I'd say yes.  what does everyone else think?

The scriptures keep us centered in Christ, but by all means there are many more things that can also inspire, as the 13th Article of Faith points out. We are admonished to read the scriptures daily, not to read "only" the scriptures daily. 

[bluebell]

6 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

From my experience, many members just shun all R rated movies.  I used to proudly do this in my orthodox days, and many of my orthodox friends and family members do this currently.  One evidence of this phenomina are the companies that find great appeal from Mormons like Cleanflix, Clearplay, Vidangel.  

Are you saying that you don't see Mormon's actively avoiding R rated movies?  If so, I'm not sure which church you've been attending, as this has been part of my experience throughout my lifetime.  I even encountered a Bishop on my mission who told me that he asked members whether they were watching R rated movies as part of his temple recommend interviews.  

I'm not doubting that members don't typically go to rated R movies in general.  I'm doubting that they don't watch rated R movies because they find them challenging to their world view.  

I don't typically watch Rated R movies because i don't like listening to the F word, watching sex scenes, or seeing people gutted.  None of those things challenge my world view though.

[stemelbow]

19 minutes ago, bluebell said:

This doesn't make much sense to me.  

Which rated R movies do you think members are skipping because they would challenge their world view?  If this is the reason that members don't watch those kinds of movies it should be really easy to come up with lots of examples.

 

my wife is part of a book club, that is made up of certain ladies in the ward.  last year they each decided to pick and book and be in charge of the discussion for the book each month.  My wife selected Mormon Enigma.  Her month came and one lady was selected to call my wife and tell her the book she selected was going to be nixed, a week or so her turn.  She said, Ok.  They selected a new book and read it.  The discuss got over for that month and my wife asked about her book.  Why they rejected it and why no one told her when they discussed it the month before.  One lady spoke up seemingly as a spokesperson fro the group and said, as far as I can tell, "I'm not going to read a book by a couple of ladies who got ex'ed from the Church."

"they were not ex'd for the book.  It is a history book and gives great insight into Emma who took very little note of herself."

"Well if its ays something negative, I'm not going to read it"

In other words, they "conscientiously avoid[ed] consuming things that they f[ound] challenging to their world view"

As per movies.  Eh...I rarely run into Mormons who view rated R movies.  It's usually a blanket dismissal. 

 

[Duncan]

2 hours ago, stemelbow said:

I find the view of the Church constricting and more of a confirmation bias thing.  What I gain from reading from the canon, can be good, at times, but I find it's no more useful or good then if I read many other things, and quite often less useful in a spiritual sense. 

I've also learned, at least for me, scripture is more meaningful if I seek to learn more about the origin of the writings, or the culture from whence it came, or study the experts view of what is meant and why things are said a certain way.  In a way those supplements are just as much the word of God as scripture, ti seems to me.  And if those are, why not other writings?  

My question often boils down to, are we missing too much by shallowly reading the scriptures each day in favor of expanding our minds and understandings in other ways?  I hope not, but often it feels that way when it comes to Church.   

 

I'd say yes to your last question. I used to have two Bishopric counselours (at different times) one had never read the Book of Mormon before, he joined because of his wife and eventually found himself in the Bishopric but had never read the Book of Mormon. The other one told me that he doesn't read the Book of Mormon anymore because he knows all the stories. One I might see this weekend so I am going to casually ask him where he is in his reading

[stemelbow]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm not doubting that members don't typically go to rated R movies in general.  I'm doubting that they don't watch rated R movies because they find them challenging to their world view.  

I don't typically watch Rated R movies because i don't like listening to the F word, watching sex scenes, or seeing people gutted.  None of those things challenge my world view though.

I believe his point is the rule is no rated R movies just incase they say the F word, have sex scenes, or have people getting gutted (all of which can be challenging).  In so doing a blanket dismissal like this can keep members from experience some really good, inspiring and thoughtful movies. 

[bluebell]

3 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

my wife is part of a book club, that is made up of certain ladies in the ward.  last year they each decided to pick and book and be in charge of the discussion for the book each month.  My wife selected Mormon Enigma.  Her month came and one lady was selected to call my wife and tell her the book she selected was going to be nixed, a week or so her turn.  She said, Ok.  They selected a new book and read it.  The discuss got over for that month and my wife asked about her book.  Why they rejected it and why no one told her when they discussed it the month before.  One lady spoke up seemingly as a spokesperson fro the group and said, as far as I can tell, "I'm not going to read a book by a couple of ladies who got ex'ed from the Church."

"they were not ex'd for the book.  It is a history book and gives great insight into Emma who took very little note of herself."

"Well if its ays something negative, I'm not going to read it"

In other words, they

As per movies.  Eh...I rarely run into Mormons who view rated R movies.  It's usually a blanket dismissal. 

 

In that situation, those ladies did seem to reject the book because they didn't want to spend time on something they didn't think had any value.  I can see how someone might label that as them "conscientiously avoid[ed] consuming things that they f[ound] challenging to their world view."

I don't find that to be a typical reason that members don't watch rated R movies though, do you?

[stemelbow]

3 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I'd say yes to your last question. I used to have two Bishopric counselours (at different times) one had never read the Book of Mormon before, he joined because of his wife and eventually found himself in the Bishopric but had never read the Book of Mormon. The other one told me that he doesn't read the Book of Mormon anymore because he knows all the stories. One I might see this weekend so I am going to casually ask him where he is in his reading

Many moons ago I dated a good LDS girl.  We were going a long really well.  But I had learned she had not even read the BoM before.  She turned 21 when we were dating.  All I had on my mind was reading books about religion, history and philosophy, and trying to figure out the scriptures all the more based on my other readings.  So, I'm embarrassed to say because of that, I ended it. 

I'm sure she's a better member of the Church than I am today, though.  So, she was better off anyway. 

[bluebell]

5 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I believe his point is the rule is no rated R movies just incase they say the F word, have sex scenes, or have people getting gutted (all of which can be challenging).  In so doing a blanket dismissal like this can keep members from experience some really good, inspiring and thoughtful movies. 

Challenging to what world view though?  

It would be really odd to say that anyone who has behavioral standards has them because they want to "avoid consuming things that they find challenging to their world view."  

[stemelbow]

Just now, bluebell said:

Challenging to what world view though?  

It would be really odd to say that anyone who has behavioral standards has them because they want to "avoid consuming things that they find challenging to their world view."  

Well, let's call hope_for an oddball then.  i'm not too worried about how he worded it.  I think I get where he's coming from.  That's enough for me. 

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Well, let's call hope_for an oddball then.  i'm not too worried about how he worded it.  I think I get where he's coming from.  That's enough for me. 

It makes sense that you didn't question him about it.  

From my perspective, he worded it in a way that implied he knew why people he's never met make the decisions that they make, and that those decisions are guided by fear.

 

[stemelbow]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It makes sense that you didn't question him about it.  

From my perspective, he worded it in a way that implied he knew why people he's never met make the decisions that they make, and that those decisions are guided by fear.

 

I get your objection.  I think it unfair to generalize, even though I do it a lot.  Sometimes I don't know how else to make my point.  hah...

[Duncan]

Just now, stemelbow said:

Many moons ago I dated a good LDS girl.  We were going a long really well.  But I had learned she had not even read the BoM before.  She turned 21 when we were dating.  All I had on my mind was reading books about religion, history and philosophy, and trying to figure out the scriptures all the more based on my other readings.  So, I'm embarrassed to say because of that, I ended it. 

I'm sure she's a better member of the Church than I am today, though.  So, she was better off anyway. 

You were a much better member than I was at that age if that's all you were thinking about! hahahahhaha! I was dreaming of KFC and dating women! Honestly though two High Priests by that time they should have read it or be interested in continuing to read it and I think for me I don't think id' listen to their opinions are Book of Mormon matters and ideas because it didn't come from them or it would seem fake to me, that's me though. It's like hearing someone teach about electricity if they know nothing about it, you know they are parroting someone else or just got stuff online

[stemelbow]

5 minutes ago, Duncan said:

You were a much better member than I was at that age if that's all you were thinking about! hahahahhaha! I was dreaming of KFC and dating women! Honestly though two High Priests by that time they should have read it or be interested in continuing to read it and I think for me I don't think id' listen to their opinions are Book of Mormon matters and ideas because it didn't come from them or it would seem fake to me, that's me though. It's like hearing someone teach about electricity if they know nothing about it, you know they are parroting someone else or just got stuff online

Don't let that retrospection fool you. I was no saint, and might be farther from it now anyway. 

[HappyJackWagon]

42 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm not doubting that members don't typically go to rated R movies in general.  I'm doubting that they don't watch rated R movies because they find them challenging to their world view.  

I don't typically watch Rated R movies because i don't like listening to the F word, watching sex scenes, or seeing people gutted.  None of those things challenge my world view though.

The mere concept of watching an R rated movie...any R rated movie...can be challenging to the worldview that says no one should ever watch a rated R movie.

I remember members of my ward shaking their head in sadness because someone they knew went to see The Passion of the Christ. "Don't they know it's R rated?" It's silly.

One of my previous Stake Presidents made it a part of every worthiness interview, including temple recommends. So yes, people avoid R rated movies because even the idea of watching one would challenge their world view.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, hope_for_things said:

 I seem to recall quotes from church leaders that promise supernatural protection for daily scripture study.

Can you give some examples? I mean, anything spiritual can be construed to be "supernatural," is that what you mean? President Benson said, "There is a power in the book which will begin to flow into your lives the moment you begin a serious study of the book. You will find greater power to resist temptation. You will find the power to avoid deception. You will find the power to stay on the strait and narrow path. The scriptures are called “the words of life” (D&C 84:85), and nowhere is that more true than it is of the Book of Mormon. When you begin to hunger and thirst after those words, you will find life in greater and greater abundance." https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1986/10/the-book-of-mormon-keystone-of-our-religion?lang=en

37 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I believe his point is the rule is no rated R movies just incase they say the F word, have sex scenes, or have people getting gutted (all of which can be challenging).  In so doing a blanket dismissal like this can keep members from experience some really good, inspiring and thoughtful movies. 

On this point, as  principle, which content draws people to Christ more, the scriptures or R-rated movies? A Christ-centered world view has much more to offer the world than any that is packaged within that which is deemed “restricted material" even by those whose best interest it is to appeal to the broadest audiences. I'll take them at their word.

I could easily live without any R-rated movie I’ve ever seen, no matter how good, thoughtful and inspiring, but I don’t think I would have as much peace in my life, or bring peace into the world (whose more distressing, intrusive and prurient aspects are so well-graphically represented in R-rated films) without reading the scriptures.

[Duncan]

Just now, stemelbow said:

Don't let that retrospection fool you. I was no saint, and might be farther from it now anyway. 

fair enough!

[bluebell]

13 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

The mere concept of watching an R rated movie...any R rated movie...can be challenging to the worldview that says no one should ever watch a rated R movie.

I remember members of my ward shaking their head in sadness because someone they knew went to see The Passion of the Christ. "Don't they know it's R rated?" It's silly.

One of my previous Stake Presidents made it a part of every worthiness interview, including temple recommends. So yes, people avoid R rated movies because even the idea of watching one would challenge their world view.

We define 'challenging your world view' differently.  Maybe Hope defines it like you do.

I still think it's kind of an odd definition though because it means that anything you choose not to (because you don't think it's moral, for example), you choose not to do because it is challenging to your world view.

Is that how you would define the moral standards  you follow?  Is that the reason that you don't do things you don't believe anyone should do?

That's not how I define my moral standards or why I follow them.

 

Edited May 4, 2017 by bluebell

[Garden Girl]

2 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Well, that's not my intent.

it's good to go outside of scripture in oru readings of course.  But I'd say to suggest such inspiration as God's Spirit, or that we only gain oil in our lamps to read only the scriptures daily is a constricting view. 

I don't know whose "constricting" view you're suggesting or referring to.. certainly not from anything I said, and certainly not from the Church's view or the Church's admonition to seek from the best books, etc...

ETA:  The other day I rented the R-rated but much lauded and award winning movie Casey Affleck won best actor for (I'm having a senior moment and can't remember the title but will think of it later I know,,, hate it when I do that)... anyway, because it won so many awards etc I thought it would be all right... but 10 minutes into it I had to turn it off... the "F" word and other profanity was prevalent in practically every sentence... WHY do moviemakers think such profanity enhances the movie?!!!  I'm sure the story was great and regret not being able to see it... but I just can't let such language bruise my spirit...  A very different scenario last month when I rented "Hacksaw Ridge"... a war story based on the true, heroic efforts of one conscientious objector soldier... R-rated for realistic wartime violence, but no profanity... it was a terrific film.

GG

Edited May 4, 2017 by Garden Girl

[hope_for_things]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I'm not doubting that members don't typically go to rated R movies in general.  I'm doubting that they don't watch rated R movies because they find them challenging to their world view.  

I don't typically watch Rated R movies because i don't like listening to the F word, watching sex scenes, or seeing people gutted.  None of those things challenge my world view though.

I've had a change of perspective recently on this issue, and just so you know, I didn't start watching rated R movies until just recently (in the past 1-2 years) and I began to lose my orthodox beliefs about 4 years ago, so I still avoided R rated movies for about 2 years before I decided to start watching them.  Here are things that I've noticed.

1.  Adult language - I don't love hearing the F word, its not a word I use in my own personal conversation.  Its something I encourage my kids not to say, but my reasons for not liking it have changed.  I don't think God is displeased with the word anymore, meaning I don't think the word by itself is an evil word.  Its a word with a meaning and its harsh and strong and in the right context it portrays harsh and strong emotion.  I see it as part of culture and society and I don't find myself as sensitive about its use anymore.  It doesn't offend me.   

2. Sex scenes - I used to think these were the penultimate reason to avoid R rated movies in the past.  I'm one of those people who closed his eyes during Titanic with the topless scene (I've still never seen that part).  Anyway, my views have changed on this too.  I don't feel the same level of taboo about sex as I used to.  The church's stigma that a person's mind is tainted somehow by seeing these things I don't subscribe to anymore, and I've found the opposite effect as I've watched some sex scenes in movies now.  I might not pay as close attention during certain parts, but I don't have the same feeling that I need to avoid things as I used to.  

3. Violence - What I've found with violence is that it still has an impact on me.  I've always been somewhat squeamish, I could never be a doctor, and even though my wife and I loved CSI, I always had a hard time with the more graphic and bloody depictions.  I don't let this stop me from seeing good quality movies though, and I find that especially with the well done war movies that I flinch at these scenes and they make me uncomfortable.  The difference is I allow that discomfort to shape what I get out of the film, as I'm sure that the director is intending the discomfort, this is part of the experience and I think it has helped me to grow as I appreciate better the real impact that violence has had on the world through the medium of film.

All of the above I consider culturally conditioned by Mormonism and I do think they challenge the Mormon world view.  Its the taboo nature of these things that is being challenged.  

 

[hope_for_things]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

Can you give some examples? I mean, anything spiritual can be construed to be "supernatural," is that what you mean? President Benson said, "There is a power in the book which will begin to flow into your lives the moment you begin a serious study of the book. You will find greater power to resist temptation. You will find the power to avoid deception. You will find the power to stay on the strait and narrow path. The scriptures are called “the words of life” (D&C 84:85), and nowhere is that more true than it is of the Book of Mormon. When you begin to hunger and thirst after those words, you will find life in greater and greater abundance." https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1986/10/the-book-of-mormon-keystone-of-our-religion?lang=en

Your example is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about.  Benson certainly started the movement specifically with the BoM and that kind of rhetoric is common and has been repeated frequently by other leaders.  You rarely hear specific supernatural expectations tied to a behavior.  The WoW is the only place that I can think of where specific promises are proclaimed. Words that convey a power and protection to reading the scriptures I believe many members interpret as a supernatural expectation they consider very real, I know I did.  

[hope_for_things]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

It makes sense that you didn't question him about it.  

From my perspective, he worded it in a way that implied he knew why people he's never met make the decisions that they make, and that those decisions are guided by fear.

 

I do think its motivation by fear, you nailed it.  Its fear of breaking a cultural expectation that Mormonism has created.  That is it exactly.  

And these aren't people I've never met, I'm an active member with friends and family who are orthodox, I've served a mission and been enmeshed in orthodox Mormonism my whole life.  These are my people too, not a bunch of strangers.