MormonVideoGame Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) In our opinion: City Creek Center visionaries and developers deserve a round of applause By Deseret News editorial board Quote Economically speaking, the mall makes its own case. It consistently generates hundreds of millions in taxable sales, serves as a draw for tourists and, with its location across from the Salt Palace Convention Center, it’s also a major attraction for out-of-state convention planners. It provides local jobs and sparks economic multipliers throughout the state. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which owns this paper, funded the project amidst the nadir of the Great Recession. While most cities were shuttering storefronts, the infusion of investment for what amounted to the largest private development project in the country kept cranes and construction adorning Salt Lake City’s skyline until its completion in 2012. I think the mall was a good idea because it helped the economy, and created many jobs which help the poor. Will the church ever fund similar projects in poor countries like Mexico, Brazil, Ghana? or at least in poor USA cities like Detroit, Michigan. Fresno, California. El Paso, Texas. Flint, Michigan. Memphis, Tennessee? Edited March 18, 2017 by MormonVideoGame
Tacenda Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said: In our opinion: City Creek Center visionaries and developers deserve a round of applause By Deseret News editorial board I think the mall was a good idea because it helped the economy, and created many jobs which help the poor. Will the church ever fund similar projects in poor countries like Mexico, Brazil, Ghana? or at least in poor USA cities like Detroit, Michigan. Fresno, California. El Paso, Texas. Fresno, California. Flint, Michigan. Memphis, Tennessee? First point, disagree that it created many jobs which help the poor. What does that really mean? Second point, I'd like to see projects, but not a mall. I live in Utah, I have been to the mall, all I see is materialism. I see the opposite of what the church has taught all my life. I remember talks about not idolizing things. I see a mall with a stream running through it with gold fish. I see many stores that only the rich could afford to shop in. My MIL is a great believer in not idolizing things, she has always been a minimalist and she gives to the church 100%. I think it's a slap in the face to what she tries to do. What about former presidents of the church that instruct members to pay off their debts, and then this current leadership, saying "let's go shopping!", such sad irony. Edited March 17, 2017 by Tacenda 2
Ahab Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 59 minutes ago, Tacenda said: First point, disagree that it created many jobs which help the poor. What does that really mean? Jobs which help the poor are jobs that pay poor people so that they will have some money to spend on things. Helping the economy is all about spending money. And the more money people spend, the better the economy, as a whole. So for example, those stores in that mall offer things to sell to people who have the money to buy. Diamonds, for example, don't just jump out of the ground, so some people are needed to mine those diamonds, and cut them, and ship them to the stores. There are a lot of poor people involved in the process of bringing those diamonds to the stores that sell them, and the costs of those diamonds covers the costs of labor for those poor people and thus stimulate the economy. That's the way it works, Tacenda. Money that isn't spent, somehow, somewhere, isn't good for anything. Money becomes useful only when it is being spent. 1
Tacenda Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Ahab said: Jobs which help the poor are jobs that pay poor people so that they will have some money to spend on things. Helping the economy is all about spending money. And the more money people spend, the better the economy, as a whole. So for example, those stores in that mall offer things to sell to people who have the money to buy. Diamonds, for example, don't just jump out of the ground, so some people are needed to mine those diamonds, and cut them, and ship them to the stores. There are a lot of poor people involved in the process of bringing those diamonds to the stores that sell them, and the costs of those diamonds covers the costs of labor for those poor people and thus stimulate the economy. That's the way it works, Tacenda. Money that isn't spent, somehow, somewhere, isn't good for anything. Money becomes useful only when it is being spent. Take that church leaders! ETA: Ahab, I see cognitive dissonance in the message of the leaders sometimes. But thanks for the economy lesson! Edited March 17, 2017 by Tacenda
Ahab Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Tacenda said: Take that church leaders! Heh, they already understand, which is why they are so good at spending the money they get. Putting it only to good use, of course. 1
carbon dioxide Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Tacenda said: What about former presidents of the church that instruct members to pay off their debts, and then this current leadership, saying "let's go shopping!", such sad irony. 1. Lets go shopping does not have to mean "lets get more in debt." 2. People support themselves and families by working in jobs that pay money. Retail jobs help those in those jobs pay bills. I guess we could all avoid debt by not spending money but that will also mean a lot of people will not have money to spend because they will not have a job. 1
Judd Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 2 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said: Will the church ever fund similar projects in poor countries like Mexico, Brazil, Ghana? or at least in poor USA cities like Detroit, Michigan. Fresno, California. El Paso, Texas. Fresno, California. Flint, Michigan. Memphis, Tennessee? http://www.sltrib.com/blogs/1362569-158/philly-church-temple-residential-tower-building
Ahab Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 25 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: 1. Lets go shopping does not have to mean "lets get more in debt." 2. People support themselves and families by working in jobs that pay money. Retail jobs help those in those jobs pay bills. I guess we could all avoid debt by not spending money but that will also mean a lot of people will not have money to spend because they will not have a job. Hmm. There must be some way to strike a good compromise to benefit everybody, seems to me. Maybe by spending as much as we can, but not so much that we would go into debt. Yeah, that's it! Then we would only be spending the money we can afford to give away. We should probably teach a class on this to the people who don't get our memos.
HappyJackWagon Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Ahab said: Jobs which help the poor are jobs that pay poor people so that they will have some money to spend on things. Helping the economy is all about spending money. And the more money people spend, the better the economy, as a whole. So for example, those stores in that mall offer things to sell to people who have the money to buy. Diamonds, for example, don't just jump out of the ground, so some people are needed to mine those diamonds, and cut them, and ship them to the stores. There are a lot of poor people involved in the process of bringing those diamonds to the stores that sell them, and the costs of those diamonds covers the costs of labor for those poor people and thus stimulate the economy. That's the way it works, Tacenda. Money that isn't spent, somehow, somewhere, isn't good for anything. Money becomes useful only when it is being spent. I find it hilarious that you use diamonds as an example. Regarding the Op Ed- Quote Economically speaking, the mall makes its own case. It consistently generates hundreds of millions in taxable sales, serves as a draw for tourists and, with its location across from the Salt Palace Convention Center, it’s also a major attraction for out-of-state convention planners. It provides local jobs and sparks economic multipliers throughout the state. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which owns this paper, funded the project amidst the nadir of the Great Recession. While most cities were shuttering storefronts, the infusion of investment for what amounted to the largest private development project in the country kept cranes and construction adorning Salt Lake City’s skyline until its completion in 2012. That would all be fine and good if that were the purpose of the church. Is the church's purpose to improve tourism in SLC? Is it the church's purpose to generate tax dollars for the city and state? Is it the church's purpose to provide store locations where rich people can buy diamonds? It's kind of ludicrous. City Creek may be very good for the local economy. I'm not arguing against that. I'm simply suggesting that that shouldn't be the role of a global church. 3
Ahab Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 Thinges sold in America often come from other countries of the world. We operate in a global economy, the Church included. So helping people to spend money in America is helping people in all parts of the world. And as a side note, I bought a lot of diamonds for my wife this past Christmas at our local mall, and again on her birthday a couple of weeks later. Or at least I think that's why I'm associatin diamonds with malls right now. I'm sure some poor people somewhere in the diamond industry are happy that they have a job.
HappyJackWagon Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, Ahab said: Thinges sold in America often come from other countries of the world. We operate in a global economy, the Church included. So helping people to spend money in America is helping people in all parts of the world. And as a side note, I bought a lot of diamonds for my wife this past Christmas at our local mall, and again on her birthday a couple of weeks later. Or at least I think that's why I'm associatin diamonds with malls right now. I'm sure some poor people somewhere in the diamond industry are happy that they have a job. So the church's mission is trickle-down economics? Interesting. 1
Ahab Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: So the church's mission is trickle-down economics? Interesting. I wouldn't say we need to make it only a trickle, but we do need to have some way for those with much to give to those with less. And we want others to work for the money they get, rather than giving them money for doing nothing. 1
Gray Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 I hope they don't strain a muscle patting themselves on the back! 2
Teancum Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 5 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said: In our opinion: City Creek Center visionaries and developers deserve a round of applause By Deseret News editorial board I think the mall was a good idea because it helped the economy, and created many jobs which help the poor. Will the church ever fund similar projects in poor countries like Mexico, Brazil, Ghana? or at least in poor USA cities like Detroit, Michigan. Fresno, California. El Paso, Texas. Fresno, California. Flint, Michigan. Memphis, Tennessee? Hmmm well let's see.... the in our opinion is the opinion of the Church owned newspaper. No surprise there. Next if there is a large local economic boon from the mall it does not benefit the majority of the Church who all reside outside of the Utah and the USA. 1
Ouagadougou Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 6 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said: In our opinion: City Creek Center visionaries and developers deserve a round of applause By Deseret News editorial board I think the mall was a good idea because it helped the economy, and created many jobs which help the poor. Will the church ever fund similar projects in poor countries like Mexico, Brazil, Ghana? or at least in poor USA cities like Detroit, Michigan. Fresno, California. El Paso, Texas. Fresno, California. Flint, Michigan. Memphis, Tennessee? The church sounds just like Trump here... 3
Ahab Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Teancum said: Hmmm well let's see.... the in our opinion is the opinion of the Church owned newspaper. No surprise there. Next if there is a large local economic boon from the mall it does not benefit the majority of the Church who all reside outside of the Utah and the USA. We support areas all over the world. Not just our own areas.
Popular Post Garden Girl Posted March 18, 2017 Popular Post Posted March 18, 2017 Ah yes... the Mall argument yet again... Tacenda... I'll bet there's hundreds of people employed behind the scenes in those stores... from the receivers on the docks, to the pressers of clothing in prep for display, those who actually put items on hangers, folded on shelves, displayed in cases, the stock rooms... jobs that don't require advanced educations... then there's the sales staff... and there's the custodial staff that vacuums, dusts, and keep the stores looking good and welcoming... those that keep track of inventory... and on and on... hundreds of jobs that can be filled by those with minimum education. And I bet every one of them is filled by someone glad to have the job, who might not qualify for other jobs requiring more skill or education... but who serve a needed service for the stores... GG 7
Tacenda Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Garden Girl said: Ah yes... the Mall argument yet again... Tacenda... I'll bet there's hundreds of people employed behind the scenes in those stores... from the receivers on the docks, to the pressers of clothing in prep for display, those who actually put items on hangers, folded on shelves, displayed in cases, the stock rooms... jobs that don't require advanced educations... then there's the sales staff... and there's the custodial staff that vacuums, dusts, and keep the stores looking good and welcoming... those that keep track of inventory... and on and on... hundreds of jobs that can be filled by those with minimum education. And I bet every one of them is filled by someone glad to have the job, who might not qualify for other jobs requiring more skill or education... but who serve a needed service for the stores... GG Maybe affordable care centers, research centers, hospitals, housing for the needy. They would employ people. But you made a good point GG, didn't realize how many jobs there were in malls. Edited March 18, 2017 by Tacenda
PeterPear Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 5 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said: I find it hilarious that you use diamonds as an example. Regarding the Op Ed- That would all be fine and good if that were the purpose of the church. Is the church's purpose to improve tourism in SLC? Is it the church's purpose to generate tax dollars for the city and state? Is it the church's purpose to provide store locations where rich people can buy diamonds? It's kind of ludicrous. City Creek may be very good for the local economy. I'm not arguing against that. I'm simply suggesting that that shouldn't be the role of a global church. Seriously? Didn't the Church found a city called Nauvoo? Or one called Salt Lake City? Wasn't it revealed to Joseph Smith the layout of the city of Zion? Used to design Far West, Missouri? Didn't the Lord reveal to Joseph Smith in D&C 124 that he should build the Nauvoo House meant for weary-travelers, LDS or not and how it should financed? Didn't the Lord reveal that the Mansion House should built and it was used as a hotel? Why would the Lord cease revealing how his funds should be used because your His critic?
Garden Girl Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 20 minutes ago, PeterPear said: Seriously? Didn't the Church found a city called Nauvoo? Or one called Salt Lake City? Wasn't it revealed to Joseph Smith the layout of the city of Zion? Used to design Far West, Missouri? Didn't the Lord reveal to Joseph Smith in D&C 124 that he should build the Nauvoo House meant for weary-travelers, LDS or not and how it should financed? Didn't the Lord reveal that the Mansion House should built and it was used as a hotel? Why would the Lord cease revealing how his funds should be used because your His critic? And colonized numerous small cities in so. Utah... and, my hometown of San Bernardino, Calif... I remember as a child celebrating Pioneer Day,,, GG
MormonVideoGame Posted March 18, 2017 Author Posted March 18, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Garden Girl said: I'll bet there's hundreds of people employed behind the scenes in those stores... from the receivers on the docks, to the pressers of clothing in prep for display, those who actually put items on hangers, folded on shelves, displayed in cases, the stock rooms... jobs that don't require advanced educations... then there's the sales staff... and there's the custodial staff that vacuums, dusts, and keep the stores looking good and welcoming... those that keep track of inventory... and on and on... hundreds of jobs that can be filled by those with minimum education. And I bet every one of them is filled by someone glad to have the job, who might not qualify for other jobs requiring more skill or education... but who serve a needed service for the stores... My question in case you missed it Will the church ever fund similar projects in poor countries like Mexico, Brazil, Ghana? or at least in poor USA cities like Detroit, Michigan. Fresno, California. El Paso, Texas. Flint, Michigan. Memphis, Tennessee? Edited March 18, 2017 by MormonVideoGame
Garden Girl Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said: My question in case you missed it Will the church ever fund similar projects in poor countries like Mexico, Brazil, Ghana? or at least in poor USA cities like Detroit, Michigan. Fresno, California. El Paso, Texas. Flint, Michigan. Memphis, Tennessee? Hello MVG... I doubt it... I think this was part of the whole beautification and upgrading of SLC... the Conference Center... the lovely Plaza area... the Mall... GG
cinepro Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 9 hours ago, Tacenda said: First point, disagree that it created many jobs which help the poor. What does that really mean? Second point, I'd like to see projects, but not a mall. I live in Utah, I have been to the mall, all I see is materialism. I see the opposite of what the church has taught all my life. I remember talks about not idolizing things. I see a mall with a stream running through it with gold fish. I see many stores that only the rich could afford to shop in. My MIL is a great believer in not idolizing things, she has always been a minimalist and she gives to the church 100%. I think it's a slap in the face to what she tries to do. What about former presidents of the church that instruct members to pay off their debts, and then this current leadership, saying "let's go shopping!", such sad irony. Jesus liked fish.
The Nehor Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 4 hours ago, Ouagadougou said: The church sounds just like Trump here... Only to the deeply stupid.
Sleeper Cell Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 5 hours ago, Teancum said: Next if there is a large local economic boon from the mall it does not benefit the majority of the Church who all reside outside of the Utah and the USA. Couldn’t essentially the same be said of any other place the Church could have chosen to build this or an analogous project?
Recommended Posts