This is so disturbing.

[Tacenda]

Too bad this man had to know about the story of Abraham in the first place. How sickening is this story. Makes me extremely angry. 

http://www.upi.com/Archives/1982/01/28/A-Logan-man-pleaded-innocent-by-reason-of-insanity/6102381042000/

Do not use this board to highlight random criminal acts of crazy people.

[Tacenda]

It is this that makes me dislike so much about the Bible. The polygamy and concubines in the Bible, Joseph Smith thought he had to have. And some that will kill in the name of religion such as some Muslims. And something in the Bible about homosexuals, causes hate.

The Bible is words of men. How do we know how much is God breathed? I just shouldn't read stuff like this. Makes me question so much about religion and scriptures. If scriptures can do so much harm. Many polygamists stemming from Joseph Smith have had so much harm done. Speaking of the Kingstons and FLDS specifically. There is so much evil and it comes from the Bible. 

I just can't see God in any of it. I wish this man had not seen something from God in it either.

[thesometimesaint]

When you're looking for an excuse any will do. When the insane do insane things it isn't a good idea to blame someone long dead.

[JLHPROF]

18 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

It is this that makes me dislike so much about the Bible. The polygamy and concubines in the Bible, Joseph Smith thought he had to have. And some that will kill in the name of religion such as some Muslims. And something in the Bible about homosexuals, causes hate.

The Bible is words of men. How do we know how much is God breathed? I just shouldn't read stuff like this. Makes me question so much about religion and scriptures. If scriptures can do so much harm. Many polygamists stemming from Joseph Smith have had so much harm done. Speaking of the Kingstons and FLDS specifically. There is so much evil and it comes from the Bible. 

I just can't see God in any of it. I wish this man had not seen something from God in it either.

The trick is differentiating between the things of God and Satan's counterfeit.

Blaming the things of God for the existence of Satan's counterfeit is like blaming the existence of Cool Whip on the fact the whipped cream exists.
The fact that the FLDS and the Kingstons exist with their corrupted practices is not the fault of God commanding polygamy.  They can claim to be following God all they want but that misshapen practice is not the fault of God's sacred revelation on plural marriage.
We should be able to recognize the difference.

This man was clearly insane.  (Not to mention Isaac was an adult with his agency, not an innocent child).

[Tacenda]

6 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

The trick is differentiating between the things of God and Satan's counterfeit.

Blaming the things of God for the existence of Satan's counterfeit is like blaming the existence of Cool Whip on the fact the whipped cream exists.
The fact that the FLDS and the Kingstons exist with their corrupted practices is not the fault of God commanding polygamy.  They can claim to be following God all they want but that misshapen practice is not the fault of God's sacred revelation on plural marriage.
We should be able to recognize the difference.

This man was clearly insane.  (Not to mention Isaac was an adult with his agency, not an innocent child).

I believe Abraham and others in the Bible were insane also.

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I believe Abraham and others in the Bible were insane also.

Well then you must think Christ was absolutely crazy.

[Jeanne]

I think the OT is nutso anyway..but here we have a crazy true believer.  Would have been a good time for Jesus to step in and find a way for this little one to live. Crazy!!  Religion makes people do crazy things in its name.  Makes me sick.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Well then you must think Christ was absolutely crazy.

Don't you think there is a case for those that hear voices?

[3DOP]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Too bad this man had to know about the story of Abraham in the first place. How sickening is this story. Makes me extremely angry. 

http://www.upi.com/Archives/1982/01/28/A-Logan-man-pleaded-innocent-by-reason-of-insanity/6102381042000/

I wonder if this has ever happened before? I would suggest that anyone who would do this practices religion alone. "Organized religion" has hierarchical authorities that would give counsel to not imagine that God will stop you from stabbing your baby. Even if he went to church, this poor man had his own ideas about his own relationship to God which were utterly singular. In my opinion, the blame, if it must be placed somewhere, would be improperly attributed to a Bible story.

Until I know more, I would tend to blame the event on adherence to an unorganized, singular, individualistic religion. Would any priest, pastor, or bishop of any religious community tell him this was a good idea? Never! Why did he not ask anybody on earth for advice about such a potentially tragic "spiritual exercise"? Apparently, he trusted too much to himself and what God was telling him personally. Detachment from any authority beyond one's own potentially grandiose imagination ordinarily leads to excessive and immoderate beliefs and practices which are less obviously harmful to others than this maddeningly absurd way of applying the Bible to one's own life in the 21st Century. 

Terrible. I think he was/is insane, but it may have been by choice. I would need to hear more. Madness alone is not an excuse. Madness is not innocent if it is a result of one's own arrogance and pride. I could be convinced of what might be called culpable insanity. Insane? Probably. Innocent? Not so sure.

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by 3DOP

[bluebell]

Satan can take any good thing and make it evil.  It doesn't mean the thing actually is evil though.  Just think of all the marriages where atrocities occur because one spouse is evil.  Think of how many evil and horrible parents there are in the world that do horrible things in the name of 'mother' or 'father'.

It doesn't mean that marriage or parenthood are inherently evil though.

[JLHPROF]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Don't you think there is a case for those that hear voices?

Of course.
But then as I said you would have to include Christ.

[JLHPROF]

4 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I think the OT is nutso anyway..but here we have a crazy true believer.  Would have been a good time for Jesus to step in and find a way for this little one to live. Crazy!!  Religion makes people do crazy things in its name.  Makes me sick.

I would love to know why you think Christ and his contemporaries were any less "nutso" than the prophets in the OT.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

I would love to know why you think Christ and his contemporaries were any less "nutso" than the prophets in the OT.

Did the prophets heal people like Christ did?

[Garden Girl]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Don't you think there is a case for those that hear voices?

Gosh Tacenda... I hear a voice on occasion... it's called "the Still, Small Voice" and I love it when it happens.  Are you saying that's insane?  

GG

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, Garden Girl said:

Gosh Tacenda... I hear a voice on occasion... it's called "the Still, Small Voice" and I love it when it happens.  Are you saying that's insane?  

GG

Not if it's not telling you to do something insane. I would love to hear that voice any day!

 

[Garden Girl]

6 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Not if it's not telling you to do something insane. I would love to hear that voice any day!

 

Listen harder... it is there... even when I would sincerely pray deeply in my inactive days, there were a couple of occasions... 

GG

[The Nehor]

Everyone in this story is insane. The neighbor goes upstairs to join a "prayer vigil" for HOURS and never once noticed the child had been stabbed? Even though both the boy and the father were covered in blood?

 

[Marmonboy]

Why didn't the neighbor call 911? Maybe they should find a reason to lock him up, too. Even if he didn't notice the baby had been stabbed, people covered in blood should have rung a bell.

[Tacenda]

46 minutes ago, Marmonboy said:

Why didn't the neighbor call 911? Maybe they should find a reason to lock him up, too. Even if he didn't notice the baby had been stabbed, people covered in blood should have rung a bell.

I know, right? It's like they thought because he is LDS and all that he didn't do anything wrong possibly. It's hard to fathom I'm sure. 

[Calm]

Tacenda, did you notice that was 1982?  Is there a reason you posted this?

[Calm]

The guy was officially declared insane:

http://www.upi.com/Archives/1982/04/12/A-Utah-judge-Monday-accepted-a-plea-of-not/5820387435600/

add-on:  not to downplay the horror of what happened, but if this was caused by religion, one would be seeing it consistently and not in 35 year old articles.  The guy was insane, anything can become an obsession in that case.

And I doubt it was his LDS status and more simply because one doesn't expect such things in one's neighbors generally.  

The whole thing sounds confusing.  Another article in the DN states the murder wasn't discovered until the knife wound was found by a mortician.  Didn't the police look at the body?  A doctor?  The guy had wounded himself and they thought it was his blood.  He had been admitted to the hospital with self inflicted wounds, but still you have a dead child....you take the word of the parent he had just died and no doctor or policeman examines him?  

The neighbour might have been worried the father was going to hurt the child and that was why he did nothing until too late, not realizing until he saw the slit the child had been stabbed as well.  But if so, why didn't the neighbout tell police immediately?

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19820410&id=7FJTAAAAIBAJ&sjid=XIMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4641,2948293&hl=en

If it had happened today, I suspect we would have tons more details.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Calm

[Rain]

6 hours ago, 3DOP said:

I wonder if this has ever happened before? I would suggest that anyone who would do this practices religion alone. "Organized religion" has hierarchical authorities that would give counsel to not imagine that God will stop you from stabbing your baby. Even if he went to church, this poor man had his own ideas about his own relationship to God which were utterly singular. In my opinion, the blame, if it must be placed somewhere, would be improperly attributed to a Bible story.

Until I know more, I would tend to blame the event on adherence to an unorganized, singular, individualistic religion. Would any priest, pastor, or bishop of any religious community tell him this was a good idea? Never! Why did he not ask anybody on earth for advice about such a potentially tragic "spiritual exercise"? Apparently, he trusted too much to himself and what God was telling him personally. Detachment from any authority beyond one's own potentially grandiose imagination ordinarily leads to excessive and immoderate beliefs and practices which are less obviously harmful to others than this maddeningly absurd way of applying the Bible to one's own life in the 21st Century. 

Terrible. I think he was/is insane, but it may have been by choice. I would need to hear more. Madness alone is not an excuse. Madness is not innocent if it is a result of one's own arrogance and pride. I could be convinced of what might be called culpable insanity. Insane? Probably. Innocent? Not so sure.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Calm said:

Tacenda, did you notice that was 1982?  Is there a reason you posted this?

I was wondering how she ran across it.  I grew up in Logan and remember it from when it first came out though my memory of knowing about it is skewed.  

[Tacenda]

57 minutes ago, Calm said:

Tacenda, did you notice that was 1982?  Is there a reason you posted this?

No, I didn't see that. When I read it I hesitated to post at first. For some reason I thought it would help anyone out there that might take something out of the Bible and use it to harm someone. 

[Jeanne]

14 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I would love to know why you think Christ and his contemporaries were any less "nutso" than the prophets in the OT.

I don't know.  I do feel and it is my opinion that the teachings of the New Testament ..are conflicting..but kinder and more understandable. 

[Tacenda]

10 hours ago, Rain said:

 

I was wondering how she ran across it.  I grew up in Logan and remember it from when it first came out though my memory of knowing about it is skewed.  

Rain, I don't know which board, either the trailer park or exmormon reddit. NOM, no longer exists and I toggle between this board and those two, I know I'm bad. I should read StayLDS.com, that is more faith promoting, like this board.