Does DN editors need to be reigned in?

[6EQUJ5]

Last night I had dinner with some LDS family members and my BIL raised an interesting question and made what I thought was a good point. He wondered if the Deseret News editorial board needed to be kept in better check by the Bretheren by possibly filling the editorial positions at the DN with general authorities.

The reason he brought this up is because of the DNs unfortunate editorial a few weeks giving specific voting guidance. He argued that the DN editors had attempted to put themselves above the Brethren and circumvant the Church's political neutrality policies. Fortunately it looks like most Utah voters ignored the DN and voted according to their own conscience. But my BIL was very angry that the DN went "rouge" and attempted to influence the outcome of an election.

I can see where my BIL is comign from. Whether we like it or not the DN is widely perceived as an extension of the Church.  So if that is the case, maybe it would be better if general authorities made up DN leadership.  Thoughts?

[6EQUJ5]

Hey mods, can you fix the title.  "Do DN editors ...."

[Duncan]

I guess it depends on your political bent if you don't want someone to get into office then they need to be reigned in but if you are the other side then no they don't. So, maybe they shouldn't have said anything at all but a newspaper that says nothing about politics is like chicken that sneezes sparkles, it ain't ever going happen

[maklelan]

10 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

Last night I had dinner with some LDS family members and my BIL raised an interesting question and made what I thought was a good point. He wondered if the Deseret News editorial board needed to be kept in better check by the Bretheren by possibly filling the editorial positions at the DN with general authorities.

The reason he brought this up is because of the DNs unfortunate editorial a few weeks giving specific voting guidance. He argued that the DN editors had attempted to put themselves above the Brethren and circumvant the Church's political neutrality policies. Fortunately it looks like most Utah voters ignored the DN and voted according to their own conscience. But my BIL was very angry that the DN went "rouge" and attempted to influence the outcome of an election.

I can see where my BIL is comign from. Whether we like it or not the DN is widely perceived as an extension of the Church.  So if that is the case, maybe it would be better if general authorities made up DN leadership.  Thoughts?

First, the Deseret News is not bound by any neutrality policy. Second, the Deseret News does not look to the Brethren for their opinions. Third, did you seriously say Trump's victory is fortunate? For literally months, people have been pointing out that electing Trump will galvanize and legitimize white nationalists around the country and facilitate a level of bigotry and hatred that our country has not seen in over 50 years. We now have minority school children all over the country being attacked and bullied by white students who are telling them they're going to be sent back to Africa or Mexico because they're not allowed here anymore now that Trump is president. The KKK is saying it's mainstream again because Trump won the election. Racial abuse has spiked significantly because white nationalists who supported Trump believe they have a mandate from the American people to take back the country from minorities. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever fortunate about women and minorities, young and old, fearing for their safety in public because their country has decided they are no longer wanted, and you are no follower of Christ if your response is to suggest none of this is the problem or fault of those who put Trump in the White House. 

[6EQUJ5]

3 minutes ago, maklelan said:

First, the Deseret News is not bound by any neutrality policy. Second, the Deseret News does not look to the Brethren for their opinions. Third, did you seriously say Trump's victory is fortunate? For literally months, people have been pointing out that electing Trump will galvanize and legitimize white nationalists around the country and facilitate a level of bigotry and hatred that our country has not seen in over 50 years. We now have minority school children all over the country being attacked and bullied by white students who are telling them they're going to be sent back to Africa or Mexico because they're not allowed here anymore now that Trump is president. The KKK is saying it's mainstream again because Trump won the election. Racial abuse has spiked significantly because white nationalists who supported Trump believe they have a mandate from the American people to take back the country from minorities. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever fortunate about women and minorities, young and old, fearing for their safety in public because their country has decided they are no longer wanted, and you are no follower of Christ if your response is to suggest none of this is the problem or fault of those who put Trump in the White House. 

I'm sorry your reading skills seem to be poor.  I said the editorial was unfortunate.  That is all.

But very impressive virtue signalling.  You are certainly my moral superior.

[maklelan]

3 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

I'm sorry your reading skills seem to be poor.  I said the editorial was unfortunate.  That is all.

But very impressive virtue signalling.  You are certainly my moral superior.

So you didn't say, "Fortunately it looks like most Utah voters ignored the DN and voted according to their own conscience"?

[6EQUJ5]

9 minutes ago, maklelan said:

So you didn't say, "Fortunately it looks like most Utah voters ignored the DN and voted according to their own conscience"?

I love it when the Saints rely on the Spirit rather than acting on the opinions of Church employees.  I don't care what the issue is.

[rodheadlee]

17 minutes ago, maklelan said:

First, the Deseret News is not bound by any neutrality policy. Second, the Deseret News does not look to the Brethren for their opinions. Third, did you seriously say Trump's victory is fortunate? For literally months, people have been pointing out that electing Trump will galvanize and legitimize white nationalists around the country and facilitate a level of bigotry and hatred that our country has not seen in over 50 years. We now have minority school children all over the country being attacked and bullied by white students who are telling them they're going to be sent back to Africa or Mexico because they're not allowed here anymore now that Trump is president. The KKK is saying it's mainstream again because Trump won the election. Racial abuse has spiked significantly because white nationalists who supported Trump believe they have a mandate from the American people to take back the country from minorities. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever fortunate about women and minorities, young and old, fearing for their safety in public because their country has decided they are no longer wanted, and you are no follower of Christ if your response is to suggest none of this is the problem or fault of those who put Trump in the White House. 

CFR the bold,one or 2 cases I could believe but "all over the country" I doubt. What we have now is progressive Liberals burning things and breaking windows  because they won't accept the results of a legitimate election. They are the ones pulling people out of their cars and beating them up because they had a Trump sticker on their car. Nobody from the right rioted when Obama was elected for 2 terms. Trump is not responsibly for the actions of the KKK any more than HR Clinton is responsible for the folks rioting in Portland, OR although I do believe she should speak to her followers and appeal for calm.

.

[maklelan]

17 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

I love it when the Saints rely on the Spirit rather than acting on the opinions of Church employees.  I don't care what the issue is.

The Spirit did not compel a single person to vote for Donald Trump, but I would be happy to apologize to you for my rhetoric if you clarify your comments and tell me that I am wrong and that you do not support Donald Trump for president. If you do support Trump, then I cannot see why you would feel justified in denouncing a perfectly accurate assessment of the meaning of your comments.

[thesometimesaint]

35 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

I love it when the Saints rely on the Spirit rather than acting on the opinions of Church employees.  I don't care what the issue is.

The Holy Ghost isn't going to force you to make good decisions.

[Duncan]

Just now, rodheadlee said:

CFR the bold,one or 2 cases I could believe but "all over the country" I doubt. What we have now is progressive Liberals burning things and breaking windows  because they won't accept the results of a legitimate election. They are the ones pulling people out of their cars and beating them up because they had a Trump sticker on their car. Nobody from the right rioted when Obama was elected for 2 terms. Trump is not responsibly for the actions of the KKK any more than HR Clinton is responsible for the folks rioting in Portland, OR although I do believe she should speak to her followers and appeal for calm.

.

Check this Anti Obama riot

Edited November 12, 2016 by Duncan

[maklelan]

Yeah, probably just my overactive liberal imagination. You know how we get.

http://www.redding.com/news/local/Shasta-High-student-gives-deportation-notice-to-non-white-students-400720861.html

http://www.canisius.edu/about-canisius/president-hurley-statement.dot

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/texas-state-university-police-looking-into-trump-vigilante-fliers/jhWSmmhNxxuTXZaQJiYhNI/

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/fck-nrs-pro-trump-whites-only-warning-greets-minnesota-students-day-after-election/

http://www.wnem.com/story/33481313/possible-racist-instagram-post-mocks-female-football-kicker

https://mic.com/articles/159188/latino-students-report-racist-incidents-within-hours-of-donald-trump-s-win#.b3uSCE06a

http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/11/09/woman-wearing-hijab-attacked-at-san-jose-state/

http://theworldlink.com/news/local/education/article_0d660ccf-6b33-5e45-862a-a11459fb401f.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/education/index.ssf/2016/11/uo_student_sees_3_people_weari.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/11/2_silverton_students_suspended.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/education/index.ssf/2016/11/two_more_oregon_schools_report.html

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/video-catches-students-shouting-white-power-while-marching-with-trump-sign-at-pennsylvania-school/

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/trump-fans-film-themselves-driving-through-womens-college-and-harassing-black-students/

http://www.cbs58.com/story/33683147/latino-students-say-they-are-being-bullied-at-marquette-university-high-school

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20161112_Racist_messages_target_black_freshmen_at_UPenn_with__lynching_.html

https://www.buzzfeed.com/mikehayes/middle-schoolers-chant-build-the-wall?utm_term=.dn7OV4WD5e#.mcxz7mX6dE

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article114238538.html

https://www.buzzfeed.com/adolfoflores/latinos-say-kids-are-already-being-bullied-at-school-in-the?utm_term=.qqPxq6JZl7#.adGjyLJ5DG

[sheilauk]

Regardless of the politics,  so long as the paper is not abusive or inflammatory,  no paper should be "reigned in".  It would be against free speech and I believe in the USA would be unconstitutional.   The DN is not a church publication,  you don't like it's views,  don't buy it. 

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, maklelan said:

So you didn't say, "Fortunately it looks like most Utah voters ignored the DN and voted according to their own conscience"?

What is important to note (since you and 6EQUJ5 raise the issue), is that Trump won only a small minority of Utah votes.  The vast majority of Utahns voted for someone else: namely Evan McMullin, Hillary Clinton, and others.  Since it is winner-take-all in Presidential elections, Trump got Utah's 6 electoral votes simply by gaining a plurality.  Indeed, that was the overall secret of  his success nationwide, even though he did not have the popular vote.  Anyhow, one could conclude that, unlike the Evangelicals, Mormons are disgusted by Trump.

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, maklelan said:

The Spirit did not compel a single person to vote for Donald Trump

You have absolutely no way of knowing that.

[Robert F. Smith]

27 minutes ago, sheilauk said:

Regardless of the politics,  so long as the paper is not abusive or inflammatory,  no paper should be "reigned in".  It would be against free speech and I believe in the USA would be unconstitutional.   The DN is not a church publication,  you don't like it's views,  don't buy it. 

The Deseret News is owned and operated by the LDS Church.  It is merely one of many companies owned by the Church.  The Brethren would be foolish to interfere in its operations.  It is sufficient to hire a good editor and depend upon his good judgment.

[Robert F. Smith]

5 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

You have absolutely no way of knowing that.

In saying that "The Spirit did not compel a single person to vote for Donald Trump," Maklelan was probably focusing on compulsion, which is not a trait of the Holy Spirit (D&C 121:37,46).

[SeekingUnderstanding]

2 hours ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

Last night I had dinner with some LDS family members and my BIL raised an interesting question and made what I thought was a good point. He wondered if the Deseret News editorial board needed to be kept in better check by the Bretheren by possibly filling the editorial positions at the DN with general authorities.

The reason he brought this up is because of the DNs unfortunate editorial a few weeks giving specific voting guidance. He argued that the DN editors had attempted to put themselves above the Brethren and circumvant the Church's political neutrality policies. Fortunately it looks like most Utah voters ignored the DN and voted according to their own conscience. But my BIL was very angry that the DN went "rouge" and attempted to influence the outcome of an election.

I can see where my BIL is comign from. Whether we like it or not the DN is widely perceived as an extension of the Church.  So if that is the case, maybe it would be better if general authorities made up DN leadership.  Thoughts?

I'd like to point out before the thread is locked that you are begging the question by assuming the editorial is not perfectly aligned with the brethren's view on the matter. 

[waveslider]

3 hours ago, maklelan said:

First, the Deseret News is not bound by any neutrality policy. Second, the Deseret News does not look to the Brethren for their opinions. Third, did you seriously say Trump's victory is fortunate? For literally months, people have been pointing out that electing Trump will galvanize and legitimize white nationalists around the country and facilitate a level of bigotry and hatred that our country has not seen in over 50 years. We now have minority school children all over the country being attacked and bullied by white students who are telling them they're going to be sent back to Africa or Mexico because they're not allowed here anymore now that Trump is president. The KKK is saying it's mainstream again because Trump won the election. Racial abuse has spiked significantly because white nationalists who supported Trump believe they have a mandate from the American people to take back the country from minorities. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever fortunate about women and minorities, young and old, fearing for their safety in public because their country has decided they are no longer wanted, and you are no follower of Christ if your response is to suggest none of this is the problem or fault of those who put Trump in the White House. 

Yeah, blame it all on Trump. It could never be the lies in the media as they twisted what Trump was saying, as they tried there best to discredit Trump as being bigoted when he was saying that he would deport, "Illegal," aliens. That never meant that he would deport all aliens, and those of different ancestry than Caucasians. It is because so many people trust the same 6, highly progressive liberal, media corporations, who have been lied to so much that they believe it. It is the propaganda that has caused this. The bigotry in reverse, against whites, that has been peddled to us as white people and cops who are killing blacks, etc., when they suppress the reports of black cops shooting whites around the same time. The riots are being incited by these media propaganda machines. Just look at how Michael Moore, of CNN incited violence when he tweeted, "Fahrenheit 11/9." How come we don't hear any other news that is happening, and it is happening but isn't being aired, but how everyone is protesting? It sure seems like they are recruiting everyone to go out and protest with them instead of reporting all the news.

But yeah, go ahead and blame Trump on all of it, and while you are at it keep watching T.V. and buying things before the world comes to an end because of someone who actually wants to keep our country sovereign and actually have a GDP again is going to all of a sudden destroy everything, because he is really a bigoted Hitler who wants to build a wall to trap everyone in disguise. And I'll just go on thinking how weird it is that the true bigots and Nazis are getting away with blaming those who actually want freedom to reign instead, and actually are getting so many people to believe it.

I guess it holds true: “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― Adolf Hitler

Edited November 12, 2016 by waveslider
mispell

[Scott Lloyd]

11 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I'd like to point out before the thread is locked that you are begging the question by assuming the editorial is not perfectly aligned with the brethren's view on the matter. 

While this may or may not be true, it needs to be pointed out that the editor of the Deseret News, Paul Edwards, is on record as saying the newspaper's editorial board neither received nor did it seek direction from the Brethren before taking the stance it did regarding Trump's candidacy. In fact, to my knowledge, the leadership of the Church took no official position favoring one candidate over another in this election.

Furthermore, as I recall, the editorial included a disclaimer affirming that it was not claiming to express the viewpoint of the leadership of the Church in this matter. That should be sufficient for anyone.

One wonders the logical extent to which the OP is prepared to take this. Taking editorial positions on public policy matters is something newspapers routinely do. Would she hamstring this newspaper by forbidding it from taking an editorial stance on any and every public issue on which the Church leaders themselves have not expressly taken an official position?

By the way, contrary to what was said in the opening post here, the newspaper's editorial was not "giving voting guidance." What it did was call on Trump to relinquish his candidacy. One may or may not see that as a fine point, but it needs to be made clear in the interest of accuracy.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, sheilauk said:

Regardless of the politics,  so long as the paper is not abusive or inflammatory,  no paper should be "reigned in".  It would be against free speech and I believe in the USA would be unconstitutional.   The DN is not a church publication,  you don't like it's views,  don't buy it. 

Well said.

I just want to point out here that lack of agreement of subject and verb ("Does DN editors need to be reigned in") is not the only thing wrong with the subject line of this thread.

The proper expression is reined in, not "reigned" in. The term comes from the imagery of controlling a horse by means of its reins (not its reigns). To reign means to rule over a kingdom or principality, as a monarch or emperor would do. To rein means to control or hold in check.

And rest assured I recognize this was not your error; you were merely quoting what was written in the subject line.

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The Deseret News is owned and operated by the LDS Church.  It is merely one of many companies owned by the Church.  The Brethren would be foolish to interfere in its operations.  It is sufficient to hire a good editor and depend upon his good judgment.

Thank you for explaining this.

Those who think the Deseret News is an ecclesiastical organ for the Church lack understanding about its role.

Caveat: What I said above applies to the newspaper in general. Lest there be any confusion, I should point out that the LDS Church News, which is a weekly supplement to the Deseret News, is an ecclesiastical organ of the Church and, unlike the rest of the newspaper, is subject to scrutiny by the Church's Correlation Department.

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[The Nehor]

On one hand I think Deseret News is independent enough that they can say what they want. But on the other hand LDS Trump voters are enraged that the Brethren are not stepping in to protect their political views from the DN.

So, what was the problem again? Looks Win/Win to me.

[Scott Lloyd]

Just pointing out here for the record that minutes after President-elect Trump gave his victory speech after clinching the election, the Deseret News went online with a house editorial congratulating him:

 

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Gray]

I'm not sure why it is so unbelievable that the leaders of the church would not want church members supporting an immoral, venal candidate like Trump who ran a campaign in direct opposition to church leaders' beliefs about religious freedom.