There is no Christ, in the Church of Jesus Christ.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, strappinglad said:

1. Who did Christ tell us to worship? Are we  focused as we should ?

2. I once started to read a book that supposedly spoke of Christ's early youth ie 6 yrs  to 18 . It got weird/bizarre and was short on references so I quit. There is very little info that is sanctioned on Christ before His ministry began.

3. Other religions have Christ so well worked out that there are only a thousand or so versions.

Jesus Christ told us to worship the Father, and that there was no God but the Father, and it was He who taught us to pray only to the Father. His entire life was to come here and exalt, and glorify the Father. However once he "became the author of our salvation", many things changed, but much stayed the same. Yes we are different from most Churches who have forgotten the Father and never make mention of him. But if we are not different and many want us to be the same...then why do we need to be? 

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Gray said:

I'm not sure. I've only heard one or two such sermons. Maybe we would have more spiritual sacrament meetings if we adopted something of that style. Then again, maybe not! I'm sure we can learn things from other traditions, but I can't really say what approach would be best. Probably it would help to attend a number of different congregations' worship services to get a flavor for what other denominations do, and see what works well and what doesn't. 

We already have the traditions of other faiths. Our style od testimony meetings, remaining quiet until someone feels inspired to speak comes from the Quakers. 

[mnn727]

19 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Also, this paragraph from the link bears out what I found in my study of a single general conference:

A table presented in the article shows that from 1980 to 2009, Joseph Smith was not even on the list of top 10 most frequent topics, while Jesus Christ has headed the list during that time period

Irrelevant since you're comparing GC to Sacrament talks - and there's no comparison. 

[Gray]

35 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

We already have the traditions of other faiths. Our style od testimony meetings, remaining quiet until someone feels inspired to speak comes from the Quakers. 

Good point Bill, but it never hurts to peek your head out the door and see what your neighbors are up to lately. 

[JLHPROF]

40 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Jesus Christ told us to worship the Father, and that there was no God but the Father, and it was He who taught us to pray only to the Father. His entire life was to come here and exalt, and glorify the Father. However once he "became the author of our salvation", many things changed, but much stayed the same. Yes we are different from most Churches who have forgotten the Father and never make mention of him. But if we are not different and many want us to be the same...then why do we need to be? 

He also told us not to call any other than the Father good.  Yet there are those who want us to spend every meeting we have praising him, who think heaven will consist of nothing but praising God and Christ for all eternity.
At which point all progression would cease, no further light would be given, and God's work would come to a crashing halt.

[Scott Lloyd]

15 minutes ago, mnn727 said:

Irrelevant since you're comparing GC to Sacrament talks - and there's no comparison. 

I initially brought it up because Tacenda said the alleged problem of Jesus Christ being neglected in Mormon worship services extends "from the top down." So it is relevant, as my finding contradicts that assertion.

Furthermore, the difference is not all that great. If there were an endemic tendency in Mormonism to neglect Jesus Christ, it would be as apt to occur in general conferences as in sacrament meetings.

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Gray said:

Good point Bill, but it never hurts to peek your head out the door and see what your neighbors are up to lately. 

It the age of information, not hard to know. I will tell all anyone would want to know what goes on in Baptist and EV faith. My family has things going on that takes me back, often. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

He also told us not to call any other than the Father good.  Yet there are those who want us to spend every meeting we have praising him, who think heaven will consist of nothing but praising God and Christ for all eternity.
At which point all progression would cease, no further light would be given, and God's work would come to a crashing halt.

I mentioned that things changed after his mission fulfilled. Of course he was good, it was his statement, not mine...he was trying to make a point, that he came to draw us to the Father...as mission that has not changed. I think that he is disappointed that so many want to forget the Father, and pray and praise Him only. I will always praise him, love him, worship him, seek to be like him and remember that he is my Saviour all the days of my life. But I will not forget my Heavenly Father, nor seek to exalt him above the Father, as so many do, and so many want to declare that he is the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost...I will not commit that blasphemy, I will not sell my soul to be like others, nor seek to be them. 

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I initially brought it up because Tacenda said the alleged problem of Jesus Christ being neglected in Mormon worship services extends "from the top down." So it is relevant, as my finding contradicts that assertion.

Furthermore, the difference is not all that great. If there were an endemic tendency in Mormonism to neglect Jesus Christ, it would be as apt to occur in general conferences as in sacrament meetings.

 

I said...might.

[Jeanne]

22 hours ago, bluebell said:

We'll have to agree to disagree.  I'm glad that talks on tupperware wouldn't fly for very long in this church.  That's as it should be.

I dunno...I have been a church janitor back in the day...we need something better to keep all those cheerios in place!!

[theplains]

On 23/10/2016 at 2:54 PM, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Jesus Christ is spoken of in the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants, more than in the Bible. Every prayer, especially in the in the Sacrarment Prayer acknowledges the role and love to the Father for Jesus Christ. Every building also bares (or is it bears) his name alone, as does the Book of Mormon, and the first section of the D&C states imfactacally that he alone is the Saviour of all mankind, as it states that, He (Christ) "...excuses not himself...", for the gospel. 

What do you base your statement the Jesus is spoken of more in the Mormon scriptures than in the Bible? A simple
word search reveals the exact opposite.

As for your later claim, the LDS Church teaches a different Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ than is depicted in the
BOM and D&C. (i.e. they became Gods).

Jehovah Witnesses also use the term 'Christ', but their Christ is a created angel, whose lifeforce was transferred into
a man (Jesus), who then became a god.

Thanks,
Jim

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, theplains said:

As for your later claim, the LDS Church teaches a different Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ than is depicted in the
BOM and D&C. (i.e. they became Gods).

No, it doesn't.
Just because that is how you and some other people may interpret the Book of Mormon & D&C, that doesn't make that interpretation any more accurate than the Trinitarian interpretation of the New Testament.

Progression towards Godhood is absolutely scriptural, but the lens through which you read the scriptures makes all the difference.

[mnn727]

23 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

He also told us not to call any other than the Father good.  Yet there are those who want us to spend every meeting we have praising him, who think heaven will consist of nothing but praising God and Christ for all eternity.
At which point all progression would cease, no further light would be given, and God's work would come to a crashing halt.

Yeah, Thats what all us Heathens that want God mentioned in Talks believe. 

Take a deep breath and repeat "I am not all knowing. Other people can have good ideas too"

[JLHPROF]

9 minutes ago, mnn727 said:

Yeah, Thats what all us Heathens that want God mentioned in Talks believe.

Take a deep breath and repeat "I am not all knowing. Other people can have good ideas too"

Just like all us Heathens who want to discuss and learn about all areas of the gospel are intentionally trying to leave out our Lord and Savior.

How about you take a deep breath and say "A man is saved no faster than he gains knowledge".

[theplains]

On 26/10/2016 at 11:22 AM, JLHPROF said:

Progression towards Godhood is absolutely scriptural, but the lens through which you read the scriptures makes all the difference.

Can you provide one scripture, which viewed through your particular lens, shows Heavenly Mother, Father, Jesus, or
the Holy Spirit became Gods through progression?  An LDS Church manual says it was some level of intelligence which
ranked Jesus as a God. Is this your measuring rod too?

Thanks,
Jim

[Guest]

On October 26, 2016 at 9:39 AM, theplains said:

What do you base your statement the Jesus is spoken of more in the Mormon scriptures than in the Bible? A simple
word search reveals the exact opposite.

As for your later claim, the LDS Church teaches a different Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ than is depicted in the
BOM and D&C. (i.e. they became Gods).

Jehovah Witnesses also use the term 'Christ', but their Christ is a created angel, whose lifeforce was transferred into
a man (Jesus), who then became a god.

Thanks,
Jim

No, not a simple word search, it is from a lifetime of learning a study. 

[cdowis]

11 hours ago, theplains said:

Can you provide one scripture, which viewed through your particular lens, shows Heavenly Mother, Father, Jesus, or
the Holy Spirit became Gods through progression?  

He who hath ears, let him hear.

Heb 5 [8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
[9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Heb 1 [2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

John 17:19-23, specifically [22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
[23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Rev 3 [21] To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

 

Edited October 30, 2016 by cdowis

[Maestrophil]

My experience in the church is that Jesus is the center of everything.  He has gotten much more mention in recent years that I recall as a child, and Joseph smith seems to be spoken of less than when I was a child.  BUT - I definitely grew up loving Christ and having a witness of him, so the church must have been sufficiently "Jesus-centric" for me.

[Guest]

On October 25, 2016 at 0:50 PM, Gray said:

Good point Bill, but it never hurts to peek your head out the door and see what your neighbors are up to lately. 

I thought for a second there you were saying that, "it could not hurt to look in my head". Even on a night like tonight, that is too frightening an idea!  

[theplains]

On 29/10/2016 at 10:56 PM, cdowis said:

He who hath ears, let him hear.

Heb 5 [8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
[9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Heb 1 [2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

John 17:19-23, specifically [22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
[23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Rev 3 [21] To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

 

These verses do not teach Jesus became a God in his pre-mortal life.

Jim

[Avatar4321]

I think sometimes we forget that sacrament speakers are lay members and not professional all clergy. It seems likely that The amount of time a talk is focused on Christ would be correlated to how converted the lay speaker is to Christ.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Avatar4321

[JLHPROF]

7 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

 It seems likely that The amount of time a talk is focused on Christ would be correlated to how converted the lay speaker is to Christ.

I don't agree with this at all.
Personal conversion doesn't necessarily correlate with choice of topic.

 

 

 

[Tacenda]

Saw this and was curious if it was photoshopped. If not, then what is up with this? Jesus at the bottom, tiny like that. The person setting this up, what? Or were they thinking Jesus is holding them all up? I don't know. 

[ksfisher]

7 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Saw this and was curious if it was photoshopped. If not, then what is up with this? Jesus at the bottom, tiny like that. The person setting this up, what? Or were they thinking Jesus is holding them all up? I don't know. 

I wouldn't try reading to much into how one primary presidency chooses to arrange pictures.

Something does look slightly off.  If nothing else, the matting on unframed pictures in LDS meetinghouses is usually white.

[clarkgoble]

11 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Saw this and was curious if it was photoshopped. If not, then what is up with this? Jesus at the bottom, tiny like that. The person setting this up, what? Or were they thinking Jesus is holding them all up? I don't know. 

Looks like it was done by someone with zero visual sense of aesthetics. I'd be surprised if they meant anything by it though. More likely it had to do with the apostles being up there years ago and someone wanting pictures of Joseph and Jesus there as well but not having good pictures and placing them willy-nilly. I doubt there's an meaning to it although there's a remote chance it was to emphasize in some lesson that our foundation is Jesus.

Edited June 15, 2017 by clarkgoble