President Nelson: Goal is not to increase the number of Church members

[CV75]

5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

In his conference talk President Russell M Nelson gave the reason missionaries leave their homes to preach the gospel:

This might be an eye-opener for some. But I think it brings needed perspective, both to believers and to others.

We’ve heard the term growth (numbers, measured by number of baptisms and members) and “real growth” (the promulgation of priesthood power and the blessings thereof, also counted, but in terms of endowed members).

I think this quote speaks to a third form of growth, measured in terms of the number and availability of Church units (wards, stake, temples, etc.; in this reference, missions) across the globe, meaning bishops and stake, mission and temple presidents availing the blessings of the priesthood keys to members and non-members alike. This can be done apart from the ordinances such as relief and other temporal service efforts, education efforts, political influence, etc.

Let's see if the Church comes up with a term for that. Maybe a good term is "dominion growth" referencing 1 Nephi 14:12 and the tendency to divide the units into smaller populations, for this very purpose. Nobody is allowed to suggest Growthy McGowthface.

Edited October 5, 2016 by CV75

[Jeanne]

19 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Don't you like to know the options when you have to make a choice?
God wants informed decisions.
 

You don't want to go there..informed decisions? 

Sir, if it wasn't for getting more members..which is not a bad thing when you believe..they need to be really informed.  As for the broadside of this conversation..if it wasn't for more members..there would be no Temples..no Malls. But hey..I am all for choice, agency and informed decisions.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Jeanne

[Scott Lloyd]

12 minutes ago, CV75 said:

We’ve heard the term growth (numbers, measured by number of baptisms and members) and “real growth” (the promulgation of priesthood power and the blessings thereof, also counted, but in terms of endowed members).

I think this quote speaks to a third form of growth, measured in terms of the number and availability of Church units (wards, stake, temples, etc.; in this reference, missions) across the globe, meaning bishops and stake, mission and temple presidents availing the blessings of the priesthood keys to members and non-members alike. This can be done apart from the ordinances such as relief and other temporal service efforts, education efforts, political influence, etc.

Let's see if the Church comes up with a term for that. Maybe a good term is "dominion growth" referencing 1 Nephi 14:12 and the tendency to divide the units into smaller populations, for this very purpose. Nobody is allowed to suggest Growthy McGowthface.

Interesting thought.

I like your term "dominion growth," with its scriptural allusion.

Another possible term, not as catchy, might be influence expansion.

[JLHPROF]

14 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

if it wasn't for more members there would be no Temples..no Malls

So it's a good thing there are more members then. 

Edited October 5, 2016 by JLHPROF

[rockpond]

30 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If you say so.

I choose to take President Nelson at his word.

As did I.

[rockpond]

33 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Jana Reiss just posted something I think is apropos.

http://religionnews.com/2016/10/05/leaked-worldwide-only-25-of-young-single-mormons-are-active-in-the-lds-church/

• The current activity rate for Young Single Adults is 30% in North America and 20% internationally, with an overall worldwide activity rate of about 25%.
• Of those who are inactive, many are people the local bishops have never heard of and have no way of contacting.
• The Church’s internal research shows that most young members who leave do so before age 20.
• Mormons are a little older now when they get married; according to Wilkins, “the average age for members of the church who marry outside of the temple is 27 for men and 25 for women. When they marry in the temple, it’s 24 for men and 23 for women. Those are numbers, averages, that have been increasing over the last couple of decades, and so they cause significant concern. The principle concern is that delaying marriage in an era of high immorality—more, increasing access to pornography—constitutes significant, very high risk for our YSAs. What we’ve noticed is that church activity begins to decline in the teenage years and continues to decline into the twenties.”
• Church activity for singles is much lower than for married people of the same age, who are twice as likely to remain active. Drawing upon social science research by Robert Wuthnow of Princeton University, Wilkins concludes that across religions, “young single adults don’t feel as welcome. They don’t feel as needed. They’re not given positions and opportunities to serve as much, and they don’t feel that their interests and needs are being addressed.”
• Only 6% of international members have married in the temple by age 30, “and that’s been declining over the last couple of decades. The implication of that for us is significant. It’s beyond what’s happening with the YSAs and becomes an issue of the establishment of the Church as a multigenerational institution. The elements that would be required to have a multigenerational church include, first, retaining our young people throughout their youth and YSAhood, having them marry in the temple, and then having them have children. Each of those three areas shows declining rates in the last couple of decades. We’re having declining activity, we’re having declining marriages in the temple, and the fertility rates are decreasing.”
• Around the world, there are only 70 active single men for every 100 single women. Many of these single women are better educated than their male LDS counterparts.
• 85% of YSAs around the world “are not in YSA wards, and are often invisible to church leaders.”
• Of the minority of single adults who remain active, statistically, very few hold positions of significant authority in conventional/family wards, like as a member of a bishopric or an auxiliary president.

Yes, those are all quotes from the leaked video presentation regarding the YSA's.  It was from 2008 so the pertinent question is:  Which direction have those stats gone in the past 8 years?

I listened to that entire hour-long clip.  It was very interesting and provided insights that I felt I could put to work in my own ward.  And, with hindsight, we can now see how some of the recommendations made to the Brethren in 2008 were implemented in the years after.

From a high level, this particular video also gave a nice view into how the Brethren work:  GA's and others are assigned to go do some research, they come back with both data and wonderful examples from around the globe of things that were successful at a local level and ought to be considered for the entire church.

[Scott Lloyd]

56 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

• The Church’s internal research shows that most young members who leave do so before age 20.

If that's the case, it makes me wonder how the age changes in eligibility for missionary service will affect that. Will it short circuit the propensity of many in this age bracket to leave the Church before they've reached their 21st year?
 

Edited October 5, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[rockpond]

1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If that's the case, it makes we wonder how the age changes in eligibility for missionary service will affect that. Will it short circuit the propensity of many in this age bracket to leave the Church before they've reached their 21st year?
 

I always assumed that was a big part of the reason they made the age change.

[notHagoth7]

1 minute ago, rockpond said:

I always assumed that was a big part of the reason they made the age change.

Me too. 

I read a book several years back about another denomination that was likewise attempting to come to terms with losing many of their own by that same approximate age. 

[cinepro]

5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

Their goal is not to increase the number of Church members. Rather, our missionaries teach and baptize to bring joy to the people of the world.

 

Maybe it's just me, but it really seems like President Nelson is describing the same thing.  The first part is the "what", and the second part is the "why".  This smacks more of doublespeak than of anything insightful. 

[notHagoth7]

2 minutes ago, cinepro said:

Maybe it's just me, but it really seems like President Nelson is describing the same thing.  The first part is the "what", and the second part is the "why".  This smacks more of doublespeak than of anything insightful. 

? Doublespeak? In what way?

[cinepro]

1 minute ago, notHagoth7 said:

? Doublespeak? In what way?

Boss: "Bill, as a salesperson for 24 Hour Fitness, your goal isn't to increase the number of members of the gym.  Your goal is to increase the fitness level of people in the area.  Got it?"

Bill: "You bet boss!"

Boss: "Oh, by the way.  You didn't increase the fitness level for enough people last quarter.  You're fired."

[notHagoth7]

I understand your intended meaning now. Thanks for clarifying.

 

If Bill got people to sign up, but their health/fitness didn't improve, I would *hope* both Bill and his manager felt they had failed.

(Not everyone is driven by the almighty dollar...or sheer numbers. For some, quality is more important than quantity.)

Edited October 5, 2016 by notHagoth7

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

• Around the world, there are only 70 active single men for every 100 single women. Many of these single women are better educated than their male LDS counterparts.

Hmmm....
Maybe we should...you know.
Nah.

 

 

[Jeanne]

2 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Hmmm....
Maybe we should...you know.
Nah.

 

 

Nah....

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, rockpond said:

I always assumed that was a big part of the reason they made the age change.

I know the assumption was there, but I don't recall it being formally stated. The figure quoted here gives reason to suppose that may be the result whether or not it is the formally stated intent. 

[cdowis]

del

Edited October 6, 2016 by cdowis

[cinepro]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I know the assumption was there, but I don't recall it being formally stated. The figure quoted here gives reason to suppose that may be the result whether or not it is the formally stated intent. 

Odds of President Monson standing in Conference and admitting that one of the reasons the missionary age was lowered was to stem the massive tide of under-20s leaving the Church: Approximately 0.0%

[Duncan]

49 minutes ago, cinepro said:

Odds of President Monson standing in Conference and admitting that one of the reasons the missionary age was lowered was to stem the massive tide of under-20s leaving the Church: Approximately 0.0%

Somewhere I read that the Quorum of the Seventy didn't know that this would happen and as an aside I read around the time that Elder Richard Scott died the Apostles didn't know that the Church was going to rebuild the Nauvoo Temple.

[sunstoned]

6 hours ago, Gray said:

That is exactly what we've been doing for decades. I'm glad the approach is apparently changing. 

Yes, if this is a change in direction, then I gladly support it.  The experience I had as a young missionary was that we were driven to get high discussion numbers and baptisms. 

[notHagoth7]

1 hour ago, cinepro said:

Odds of President Monson standing in Conference and admitting that one of the reasons the missionary age was lowered was to stem the massive tide of under-20s leaving the Church: Approximately 0.0%

 Leaders from earlier generations didn't often givereasons for their decisions. For some reason, some even viewed it as a sign of weakness to do so.  I suspect that paradigm/practice will shift.

[Jeanne]

4 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

So it's a good thing there are more members then. 

If you want big and spacious buildings I guess..

[sunstoned]

1 hour ago, cinepro said:

Odds of President Monson standing in Conference and admitting that one of the reasons the missionary age was lowered was to stem the massive tide of under-20s leaving the Church: Approximately 0.0%

That is never going to happen. Case in point: While speaking at Utah State University, Pres. Jensen let slip that the church was experiencing apostasy that has not been seen since Kirkland. The press picked up on this.  That was in November of 2011.  Within a year he was relegated to emeritus status.

[Duncan]

10 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

That is never going to happen. Case in point: While speaking at Utah State University, Pres. Jensen let slip that the church was experiencing apostasy that has not been seen since Kirkland. The press picked up on this.  That was in November of 2011.  Within a year he was relegated to emeritus status.

which is normal because in 2012 he turned 70 years old and that's the age when they become emeritus. He could have told them that Giraffes play volleball against the Smurfs at Chicago's United Center and they would still have released him

[Gray]

20 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

That is never going to happen. Case in point: While speaking at Utah State University, Pres. Jensen let slip that the church was experiencing apostasy that has not been seen since Kirkland. The press picked up on this.  That was in November of 2011.  Within a year he was relegated to emeritus status.

Isn't it automatic for 70s to become emeritus 70s when they turn 70? 

That was a mouthful.