1 Timothy 3:1

[Doctrine 612]

1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

what does it mean to desire the office of a bishop?

when I was a member of another church to be considered for a leadership position you had to want it, and study the word of God a lot.  Then when I joined this church it almost feels taboo to want any leadership callings to serve in. Why do you think this is?

also on a side note it seems many leaders are unprepared for the roll and lack scriptural understanding.

should their be better evaluation of people and class lessons.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2016 by Doctrine 612

[JLHPROF]

Just now, Doctrine 612 said:

1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

what does it mean to desire the office of a bishop?

when I was a member of another church to be considered for a leadership position you had to want it, and study the word of God a lot.  Then when I joined this church it almost feels taboo to want any leadership callings to serve in. Why do you think this is?

also on a side note it seems many leaders are unprepared for the roll and lack scriptural understanding. 

I think this falls under:
D&C 4: 3 Therefore, if ye have desires to serve God ye are called to the work;
and
Abraham 1: 2 And, finding there was greater happiness and peace and rest for me, I sought for the blessings of the fathers, and the right whereunto I should be ordained to administer the same; having been myself a follower of righteousness, desiring also to be one who possessed great knowledge, and to be a greater follower of righteousness, and to possess a greater knowledge, and to be a father of many nations, a prince of peace, and desiring to receive instructions, and to keep the commandments of God, I became a rightful heir, a High Priest, holding the right belonging to the fathers.
and
4 I sought for mine appointment unto the Priesthood according to the appointment of God unto the fathers concerning the seed.

Seeking a calling - a position in the Church is not always motivated by the best feelings.  But seeking growth is something we should all be doing every day.
Every unendowed person should be seeking their endowment.  Every person should be seeking to become Kings and Priests (and Queens and Priestesses) unto God.
Nobody should be seeking to be Stake President.

[Doctrine 612]

Your right you should not seek that calling especially if your unqualified for such a position.

we should all be seeking to better one self 

 

[JAHS]

It is a common understanding in the gospel that we do not aspire to callings. We trust the Lord to direct his servants to provide us with callings and opportunities to serve. I think the Timothy scripture is simply saying that it is a good thing to desire to serve and a good thing to be a Bishop. But there is a difference between desire and aspire. There is nothing wrong with having a desire to serve in a particular calling or even letting church leaders know that you would like a calling and letting them know the kind of talents and experience you have, which might make it easier for them to select a calling for you. But it is not proper to tell the Lord what that calling should be and then lobby church leaders to give you that calling. 

The Church handbook on callings says:
"A person must be called of God to serve in the Church (see Articles of Faith 1:5). Leaders seek the guidance of the Spirit in determining whom to call. They consider the worthiness that may be required for the calling."

Here's a few relevant quotes from church leaders:

Elder F. Melvin Hammond of the Seventy said:
"We do not aspire to callings nor should we ever turn down a call to serve, even if we do not feel adequate for the position. It is also scripture that we should not hide our light under a bushel." (Oct 2006)

“In the service of the Lord, it is not where you serve but how.“ (J. Reuben Clark, Jr., CR, April 1951, 154)

President Hinckley:
“Sometimes men and women in the Church aspire for office. This is unfortunate. It becomes the very reason why they should not be granted such office.” (Gordon B. Hinckley, Keep the Chain Unbroken, Talk given at BYU, 30 Nov. 1999)

People who aspire to an office might be doing it for the wrong selfish reasons. Lastly, I know very few people who would actually want to be a Bishop. If you do, then like Timothy said, it is a good desire but one that you should keep to yourself and allow God to inspire others to make the choice of who it should be.

[Doctrine 612]

I bring this up because a few of my non lds friends have brought this to my attention and wondered about it and thats why I ask. I should also menton that my non lds friends are ether pastors or are studying to become one, since one of my jobs is a professor of a pastor New Testament class ( say that ten times fast) and they ask me a lot about the same and differences of our churches.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Doctrine 612

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Doctrine 612 said:

I bring this up because a few of my non lds friends have brought this to my attention and wondered about it and thats why I ask. I should also menton that my non lds friends are ether pastors or are studying to become one, since one of my jobs is a professor of a pastor New Testament class ( say that ten times fast) and they ask me a lot about the same and differences of our churches.

You teach pastors?

[Doctrine 612]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

You teach pastors?

Yea, we'll pastor in training. I have a few degrees in theology and scriptural studies. 

My best friend from high school and college is a pastor of his church and they started a school three years ago for those who want to become deacons, elders, pastors or a evangelicist in there church. And he asked me to teach the New Testament class of history and doctrine.

I asked my stake leaders and bishop if it was ok and they said I can do what I want, no problems.

the elders of the Baptists church said I can teach as long as I don't teach Mormonism only bible base truth.

Good thing the lds church teaches bible base truth.

 

 

[Kenngo1969]

While this scripture is referring specifically to the Priesthood (so I wouldn't bring it up, or at least, I wouldn't bring the LDS interpretation of it up, to your pastor friends ), Paul wrote, "No man taketh this honor unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron."  I think, in many cases, that's applicable to callings, as well.  On the other hand, there's no need to wait for a specific call to serve.  And often, leaders ask what someone has done in the Church of Jesus Christ to determine what other roles s/he might fill.

[CV75]

11 hours ago, Doctrine 612 said:

1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

what does it mean to desire the office of a bishop?

when I was a member of another church to be considered for a leadership position you had to want it, and study the word of God a lot.  Then when I joined this church it almost feels taboo to want any leadership callings to serve in. Why do you think this is?

also on a side note it seems many leaders are unprepared for the roll and lack scriptural understanding.

should their be better evaluation of people and class lessons.

I like the idea of external action combined with an inward desire (but not motive):

desire—literally, "stretch one's self forward to grasp"; "aim at": a distinct Greek verb from that for "desireth." What one does voluntarily is more esteemed than what he does when asked (1Co 16:15). This is utterly distinct from ambitious desires after office in the Church. (Jas 3:1).

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_timothy/3-1.htm

http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/jamieson-fausset-brown/1-timothy/1-timothy-3.html

“Desire … desireth”: Two different Greek words are used. The first means “to reach out after.” It describes external action, not internal motive. The second means “a strong passion,” and refers to an inward desire. Taken together, these two words aptly describe the type of man who belongs in the ministry – one who outwardly pursues it because he is driven by a strong internal desire.

http://www.bible-studys.org/Bible Books/1 Timothy/1 Timothy Chapter 3.html

“… The word ορεγεται, which we translate desire, signifies earnest, eager, passionate desire; and επιθυμει, which we translate desire, also signifies earnestly to desire or covet. It is strange that the episcopacy, in those times, should have been an object of intense desire to any man; when it was a place of danger, awl exposure to severe labor, want, persecution, and death, without any secular emolument whatsoever. On this ground I am led to think that the Spirit of God designed these words more for the ages that were to come, than for those which were then; and in reference to after ages the whole of what follows is chiefly to be understood.” (Clarke’s Commentary) http://www.godvine.com/bible/1-timothy/3-1

On the same ground Clarke draws his conclusion, I think that the lack of worldly incentive to serve as bishop shows the spiritual nature of taking on the calling only with the desire to love and serve God.

Edited July 29, 2016 by CV75

[theplains]

16 hours ago, JAHS said:

We trust the Lord to direct his servants to provide us with callings and opportunities to serve.

I only trust the Lord if I wish to travel to Japan to be a missionary for example. I don't need approval from
any church elder.

Regards,
Jim

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, theplains said:

I only trust the Lord if I wish to travel to Japan to be a missionary for example. I don't need approval from
any church elder.

That's because it would not be a priesthood mission.
Anyone can do charitable work.  Going out with authority to represent God and administer his ordinances requires a bit more.

[Robert F. Smith]

On 7/28/2016 at 7:52 PM, Doctrine 612 said:

.............................

when I was a member of another church to be considered for a leadership position you had to want it, and study the word of God a lot.  Then when I joined this church it almost feels taboo to want any leadership callings to serve in. Why do you think this is?

..................................................................   

Actually, many Protestants are groomed while young and encouraged to prepare to serve, being asked to go to seminary.  Pastors and youth workers begin early in finding talent to assist them.  Mormons do approximately the same thing, although no academic seminary training is usually involved.  LDS seminaries and institutes just don't measure up, and that is deliberate.

The problem with seeking high positions is that some self-seeking and narcissistic types want the adulation and respect, and that is the last thing the Brethren want in LDS leaders.  Also the last thing that God wants in his representatives.

[mfbukowski]

On 7/28/2016 at 6:52 PM, Doctrine 612 said:

1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

what does it mean to desire the office of a bishop?

when I was a member of another church to be considered for a leadership position you had to want it, and study the word of God a lot.  Then when I joined this church it almost feels taboo to want any leadership callings to serve in. Why do you think this is?

also on a side note it seems many leaders are unprepared for the roll and lack scriptural understanding.

should their be better evaluation of people and class lessons.

 

 

All the apostles were not groomed to be "ministers" neither did they choose to be them

THEY WERE CALLED by someone other than themselves- in their case, the Savior himself

And they stopped in their tracks, put down their nets, left their workbenches and followed Christ

We believe one must be CALLED by one in authority to become part of the ministry.  It is not our decision- we follow the pattern the Savior taught

The pattern is humility and obedience to the Lord's plan for us- not self-aggrandizement.

Besides that no one in their right mind would want to be a Bishop. 

[Rivers]

Is it good for a woman to desire the office of a bishop?

[Atheist Mormon]

2 hours ago, Rivers said:

Is it good for a woman to desire the office of a bishop?

If she is qualified she should be given the Job....I'm sure she can do it as good as Men. (Or better)

[JLHPROF]

7 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

If she is qualified she should be given the Job....I'm sure she can do it as good as Men. (Or better)

Well one of the qualifications is that she be the husband of a wife...

[whirlingmerc]

I think of this in terms of an elder/bishop/presbyter   which I think Biblically are the same   are types of shepherds for the sheep  and it's needful to know the word in order to lead the sheep   A pastor,  arguably occurs only once in the new Testament,  but elders occur much more often

I favor a few of elders like the Presbyterians  or Reformed Baptist might.   A group of chosen  godly men  for that purpose who have the gift of teaching who lead the church by concensus

 

[whirlingmerc]

I see deacons as assistance to the elders for special purpose

[theplains]

On 29/07/2016 at 4:56 PM, JLHPROF said:

That's because it would not be a priesthood mission.
Anyone can do charitable work.  Going out with authority to represent God and administer his ordinances requires a bit more.

I don't mean charitable work. I meant that I can go preach the gospel to anyone wherever; without permission
from my church here in Canada.  Jesus gave us this authority in the Great Commission.

Thanks,
Jim

[stemelbow]

I always have said the most righteous men in any given ward are those who essentially campaign for the high local callings like bishop.  That's why such men usually get those callings.

[JLHPROF]

On 8/1/2016 at 4:21 PM, theplains said:

I don't mean charitable work. I meant that I can go preach the gospel to anyone wherever; without permission
from my church here in Canada.  Jesus gave us this authority in the Great Commission.

Thanks,
Jim

The great commission was specifically given to the Apostles - those who according to Matthew 16:19 held priesthood authority.

• And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Not to every person to act on their own accord.

[thesometimesaint]

On 7/31/2016 at 5:36 PM, Atheist Mormon said:

If she is qualified she should be given the Job....I'm sure she can do it as good as Men. (Or better)

She's not qualified. But that doesn't mean she can't do as well as men, or better. IE; A foreigner may be able to do as well as US President as a native born born American, maybe even better, as US President(We've had some real beauts). But they are not qualified to be US President.

As my wife says she's got enough to do already, without having the Priesthood.

Edited August 4, 2016 by thesometimesaint

[Atheist Mormon]

1 hour ago, thesometimesaint said:

She's not qualified. But that doesn't mean she can't do as well as men, or better. IE; A foreigner may be able to do as well as US President as a native born born American, maybe even better, as US President(We've had some real beauts). But they are not qualified to be US President.

As my wife says she's got enough to do already, without having the Priesthood.

 like your "Separate but equal analogy", it worked very well with Blacks & Whites, it should work well also in ecclesiastical matters.

[theplains]

On 03/08/2016 at 9:22 AM, JLHPROF said:

The great commission was specifically given to the Apostles - those who according to Matthew 16:19 held priesthood authority.

• And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Not to every person to act on their own accord.

We'll have to agree to disagree.  All believers in Christ are members of the royal priesthood of believers. The great
commission given to the Apostles extends to all.  As for the keys that you mention, some believe it was only given to
Peter.  But if you read Matthew 18:1,18, the keys are given to all the disciples.

Thanks,
Jim

[Atheist Mormon]

19 minutes ago, theplains said:

We'll have to agree to disagree.  All believers in Christ are members of the royal priesthood of believers. The great
commission given to the Apostles extends to all.  As for the keys that you mention, some believe it was only given to
Peter.  But if you read Matthew 18:1,18, the keys are given to all the disciples.

Thanks,
Jim

This is clearly not so according to Apostle Paul.