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LDS Church welfare, humanitarian efforts avg $40m/yr

rockpond

By rockpond
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rockpond Grand Master

rockpond

Posted
  • Author
Posted
42 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

I just wanted to share an experience that means a lot to me.  I know that I don't always support here the way tithing dollars may be spent or the reasons the church does one thing or another.  I realize, too, that it is because I really don't understand various real estate deals/reasons and taxes..expenses etc.  But I am also aware that there is not as much transparency as there could be.

In any case, I wanted to share something that means a lot to me as far as tithing as true charity.  On one of my last recent visits to see my very old Dad...I took my daughter with me.During that visit, My Dad told my daughter..."I have something for you..from MY mother"..This is when Dad handed her an old..old leather coin purse. It is very small with those old clasps.  I saw that coin purse and immediately saw my grandma's hands unclutching it..gathering a few dollar and coins to put in an envelope.  She ..on a measly small social security check..made sure she paid the Bishop everymonth.  I saw that as if she was standing right next to me..her wedding ring on wrinkled fingers..and an extra $5.00 for the missionary.  That..is true love and charity..tithing or not to the church..it is what is in the heart. 

Beautiful, thank you for sharing!

2
rockpond Grand Master

rockpond

Posted
  • Author
Posted
4 minutes ago, Danzo said:

I guess that I can take comfort in knowing that it is quite likely that greater than 100% of the money contributed to the humanitarian fund will be used (since I will be causing expenses against the church's general fund).

That's good to remember.

Fascinating logic.

TheSkepticChristian Veteran

TheSkepticChristian

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 7/14/2016 at 7:42 PM, The Nehor said:

It I think the numbers skew the other way when you go to South America, Africa, and some parts of Asia.

Is that why American chapels are much better and nicer? Is that why EFY is much better in America? EFY in poor countries is not that great, especially the food. They just give you a sandwich in Mexico, and you still have to pay for it. 

 

Edited by TheSkepticChristian
TheSkepticChristian Veteran

TheSkepticChristian

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Calm said:

Are they paying 200-600 dollars apiece to go to these EFYs?

https://efy.byu.edu/efy_registration_cost

Probably not, that is why EFY in America is much better. Everything of the church (buildings and activities) is way better in the USA. 

In America some parents cannot afford to pay 200-600 dollars to send their children to EFY, but their Bishop helps them with that. God does bless America. 

There is no Bishop Storehouse in Latin America. When church members need temporal help (like food), our church doesn't give them much. American LDS get much more food.  It's true. An American family of four gets much more than a Latin America family of five. 

Why? i don't know, perhaps because of what the Nehor said " It I think the numbers skew the other way when you go to South America, Africa, and some parts of Asia." 

Edited by TheSkepticChristian
rodheadlee Grand Master

rodheadlee

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 7/15/2016 at 8:30 AM, rockpond said:

What portion of our money goes to getting and keeping people out of hell?

Perhaps you should read the Cardston Temple Vision. Here is a quote from it. Perhaps our leaders have better idea than you of what is really going on. 

"My intensified thought was "What of the Church," if such is to become of the Kingdoms of the earth? Was immediately answered by a subconscious statement. "As it is in the church today," and I saw these higher spiritual beings throughout the length and breadth of the air, marshalling their spiritual forces, and concentrating them upon the high officials of your church upon earth.

 

I saw the spiritual forces working upon those officers, impressing and moving them, influencing and warning them. I saw the spiritual forces begin to unfold these things into the minds of your elders and other high officials, especially during their spiritual devotions and official duties, and those activities which exalt the mind of the individual or groups. I saw the impressions take hold and inspire the more receptive and spiritual men, until it was all clearly revealed to them in the way the spiritual patriarch desired.

 

Again I seemed to hear the words, "As it will be." I saw the high officials in council, and under inspired guidance issue instructions to your people to re-consecrate their lives and energies to their faith, to voluntarily discipline themselves, by abstaining from all those forms of indulgence which weaken the body, sap the mentality and deaden the spirit, or waste the income.

 

I saw further on, instructions given whereby places of refuge were prepared quietly but efficiently by inspired elders. I saw Cardston and the surrounding foothills, especially north and west, for miles, being prepared as a refuge for your people quietly but quickly.

 

I saw elders still under divine guidance, counseling and encouraging the planting of every available acre of soil in this district, so that large supplies would be near the refuge. I saw the church property under cultivation of an intensified character, not for sale or profit, but for the use of the people. I saw artesian wells and other wells dug all over that territory so that when the open waters were polluted and poisoned that the people of the church and their cattle should be provided for.

 

I saw the fuel resources of the district develop in many places and vast piles of coal and timber stored for future use and building. I saw the territory carefully surveyed and mapped out, for the camping of a great body of the people of the church. I saw provision also made for a big influx of people who will not at first belong to the church, but who will gather in their tribulation.

 

I saw vast quantities of surgical appliances, medicines, disinfectants, etc., stored in the temple basement. I saw inspiration given the elders whereby the quantity, quality and kind of things to be stored were judged, which might not be attainable in this territory in time of chaos. I saw defensive preparations working out the organizations of the camps on maps.

 

I saw the mining corridors used as places of storage underground: I saw the hills surveyed and corrals built in sequestered places for cattle, sheep, etc., quietly and quickly. I saw the plans for the organization of the single men and their duties, the scouts, the guards, the nurses, the cooks, the messengers, the children, the herders, the temple guards, etc.. I saw these things going on practically unknown to the Gentile world, except the Great Apostasy, whose knowledge and hatred is far reaching, in this day of its temporary power. This was going on piece by piece as the Elders were instructed so to do.

 

I saw the other officials obeying the inspired instructions, carrying their message and exhorting the people to carry out, from time to time the revelation given them, whilst all around throughout the Gentile world the chaos developed in its varying stages, faction against faction, nation against nation, but all in open or secret hostility to your people and their faith. I saw your people draw closer and closer together, as this became more tense and as the spiritual forces warned them through the mouth of your elders and your other officers. I saw the spiritual forces influencing those members who had drifted away, to re-enter the fold. I saw a greater tithing than ever before. I saw vast quantities of necessaries supplied by members whose spiritual eyes had been opened. I saw a liquidation of properties and effects disposed of quietly but quickly by members of the church, as the spiritual influences directed them."

http://www.reliefmine.com/articles/dreams-a-visions/59-dreams-a-visions/93-the-cardston-temple-vision-world-war-iii

Edited by rodheadlee
rockpond Grand Master

rockpond

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1 hour ago, rodheadlee said:

Perhaps you should read the Cardston Temple Vision. Here is a quote from it. Perhaps our leaders have better idea than you of what is really going on. 

"My intensified thought was "What of the Church," if such is to become of the Kingdoms of the earth? Was immediately answered by a subconscious statement. "As it is in the church today," and I saw these higher spiritual beings throughout the length and breadth of the air, marshalling their spiritual forces, and concentrating them upon the high officials of your church upon earth.

 

I saw the spiritual forces working upon those officers, impressing and moving them, influencing and warning them. I saw the spiritual forces begin to unfold these things into the minds of your elders and other high officials, especially during their spiritual devotions and official duties, and those activities which exalt the mind of the individual or groups. I saw the impressions take hold and inspire the more receptive and spiritual men, until it was all clearly revealed to them in the way the spiritual patriarch desired.

 

Again I seemed to hear the words, "As it will be." I saw the high officials in council, and under inspired guidance issue instructions to your people to re-consecrate their lives and energies to their faith, to voluntarily discipline themselves, by abstaining from all those forms of indulgence which weaken the body, sap the mentality and deaden the spirit, or waste the income.

 

I saw further on, instructions given whereby places of refuge were prepared quietly but efficiently by inspired elders. I saw Cardston and the surrounding foothills, especially north and west, for miles, being prepared as a refuge for your people quietly but quickly.

 

I saw elders still under divine guidance, counseling and encouraging the planting of every available acre of soil in this district, so that large supplies would be near the refuge. I saw the church property under cultivation of an intensified character, not for sale or profit, but for the use of the people. I saw artesian wells and other wells dug all over that territory so that when the open waters were polluted and poisoned that the people of the church and their cattle should be provided for.

 

I saw the fuel resources of the district develop in many places and vast piles of coal and timber stored for future use and building. I saw the territory carefully surveyed and mapped out, for the camping of a great body of the people of the church. I saw provision also made for a big influx of people who will not at first belong to the church, but who will gather in their tribulation.

 

I saw vast quantities of surgical appliances, medicines, disinfectants, etc., stored in the temple basement. I saw inspiration given the elders whereby the quantity, quality and kind of things to be stored were judged, which might not be attainable in this territory in time of chaos. I saw defensive preparations working out the organizations of the camps on maps.

 

I saw the mining corridors used as places of storage underground: I saw the hills surveyed and corrals built in sequestered places for cattle, sheep, etc., quietly and quickly. I saw the plans for the organization of the single men and their duties, the scouts, the guards, the nurses, the cooks, the messengers, the children, the herders, the temple guards, etc.. I saw these things going on practically unknown to the Gentile world, except the Great Apostasy, whose knowledge and hatred is far reaching, in this day of its temporary power. This was going on piece by piece as the Elders were instructed so to do.

 

I saw the other officials obeying the inspired instructions, carrying their message and exhorting the people to carry out, from time to time the revelation given them, whilst all around throughout the Gentile world the chaos developed in its varying stages, faction against faction, nation against nation, but all in open or secret hostility to your people and their faith. I saw your people draw closer and closer together, as this became more tense and as the spiritual forces warned them through the mouth of your elders and your other officers. I saw the spiritual forces influencing those members who had drifted away, to re-enter the fold. I saw a greater tithing than ever before. I saw vast quantities of necessaries supplied by members whose spiritual eyes had been opened. I saw a liquidation of properties and effects disposed of quietly but quickly by members of the church, as the spiritual influences directed them."

http://www.reliefmine.com/articles/dreams-a-visions/59-dreams-a-visions/93-the-cardston-temple-vision-world-war-iii

I hope they do.  What's your point?

rodheadlee Grand Master

rodheadlee

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, rockpond said:

I hope they do.  What's your point?

You asked what portion goes to keeping people out of hell. It would seem to me the answer is all of it.

rockpond Grand Master

rockpond

Posted
  • Author
Posted
21 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

You asked what portion goes to keeping people out of hell. It would seem to me the answer is all of it.

All of it?  How does a 32-story retail/residential tower in Philadelphia keep people out of hell?

CV75 Grand Master

CV75

Posted
Posted
On 7/15/2016 at 3:42 PM, rockpond said:

I can't complain because I have no idea how much is saved/invested and how/when it is then used.  That's the problem.

“The new explanation takes a more general approach to donated funds: "Though reasonable efforts will be made globally to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church's property and will be used at the Church's sole discretion to further the Church's overall mission."

“Scott Trotter, spokesman for the Church, said of the changes, "We feel a sacred obligation to make sure that tithing and other donations made to the Church are used prudently and wisely. The new language on the donation slips simply gives some flexibility to meet the changing needs of a growing, global faith as circumstances require."

http://www.ldsliving.com/LDS-Church-adopts-new-tithing-slips/s/69822

How do you make the connection between a change in the tithing slip to a change in the sharing of financial information? I think you’re saying you don’t like the Church's flexibility in using your donations, but how does that correspond to a change in transparency about the categorical spending in the various options on the slip?

rodheadlee Grand Master

rodheadlee

Posted
Posted
On 7/17/2016 at 0:24 PM, rodheadlee said:

You asked what portion goes to keeping people out of hell. It would seem to me the answer is all of it.

I guess you didn't actually read the Cardston Temple Vision.

 

8 hours ago, rockpond said:

All of it?  How does a 32-story retail/residential tower in Philadelphia keep people out of hell?

 

rockpond Grand Master

rockpond

Posted
  • Author
Posted
2 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

I guess you didn't actually read the Cardston Temple Vision.

 

 

Read it.  Not seeing the connection with commercial development.  I think you're trying to imply something but I'm not going to guess at it. 

rodheadlee Grand Master

rodheadlee

Posted
Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Read it.  Not seeing the connection with commercial development.  I think you're trying to imply something but I'm not going to guess at it. 

"I saw a liquidation of properties and effects disposed of quietly but quickly by members of the church, as the spiritual influences directed them."

http://www.reliefmine.com/articles/dreams-a-visions/59-dreams-a-visions/93-the-cardston-temple-vision-world-war-iii

Edited by rodheadlee
rockpond Grand Master

rockpond

Posted
  • Author
Posted
14 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

"I saw a liquidation of properties and effects disposed of quietly but quickly by members of the church, as the spiritual influences directed them."

http://www.reliefmine.com/articles/dreams-a-visions/59-dreams-a-visions/93-the-cardston-temple-vision-world-war-iii

...by members...

We're discussing assets of the Church, not the assets of individual members.

But let's say it's the same thing... are you suggesting that the Cardston temple vision is counseling the Church to build up a large financial nest egg that will then be sold off at some future point to provide for some kind of need(s)?

...quietly but quickly...

Selling 111 Main or City Creek is unlikely to be a quick or quiet process.  But okay.

Jeanne Grand Master

Jeanne

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

False dichotomy.

I am embarrassed..I see this all the time here on the board and I don't even know what it means.  Well..I guess you can get spiritual confirmation after you talk to a financial advisor and pray about it.  Trust me..Me and my retirement are counting on it!:P

1
rodheadlee Grand Master

rodheadlee

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, rockpond said:

...by members...

We're discussing assets of the Church, not the assets of individual members.

But let's say it's the same thing... are you suggesting that the Cardston temple vision is counseling the Church to build up a large financial nest egg that will then be sold off at some future point to provide for some kind of need(s)?

...quietly but quickly...

Selling 111 Main or City Creek is unlikely to be a quick or quiet process.  But okay.

Never mind. If you don't get it by now you never will.

thesometimesaint Grand Master

thesometimesaint

Posted
Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I am embarrassed..I see this all the time here on the board and I don't even know what it means.  Well..I guess you can get spiritual confirmation after you talk to a financial advisor and pray about it.  Trust me..Me and my retirement are counting on it!:P

SEE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

If a " financial advisor" has to use his faith in order to get you to buy something RUN. If he has to use your faith in order to get you to buy something RUN FASTER.

Edited by thesometimesaint
1
The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

Posted
Posted
On July 15, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Gray said:

That's really not what the LDS doctrine is, regarding hell. In fact arguably the only people going to hell are people who've had deep ties with Mormonism (unforgivable sin doctrine).

Is there someone who I can give money to to spring a soul from hell? How much is it per soul? 

Not true, most people who reach the age of accountability are going to hell. Most will admittedly get out. Some of our money goes towards expediting that exit.

The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

Posted
Posted
On July 15, 2016 at 8:30 AM, rockpond said:

What portion of our money goes to getting and keeping people out of hell?

A substantial portion. That is the point of all the chapels, temples, activities, etc.

The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

Posted
Posted
On July 15, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Gray said:

That's really not what the LDS doctrine is, regarding hell. In fact arguably the only people going to hell are people who've had deep ties with Mormonism (unforgivable sin doctrine).

Is there someone who I can give money to to spring a soul from hell? How much is it per soul? 

It varies based on the quality of the soul in question.

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