Duncan Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 I just read for the 3rd time the bio on Truman Madsen. He says that his dad, first of all had 5 patriarchal blessings, but I think with the first one the Patriarch gave it to him and his siblings when he was like 5 years old or something. I hope I am remembering his age correctly. But to get the blessing the dad had to give a load of hay in exchange for it. Basically the Patriarch said give me a load of hay and i'll give your kids their blessings. My question is was that common back then? 1890's or was that just a bizarre occurrence?
Jeanne Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 I have heard of this..but it was within the last few months on this board..not until then. In a way, it kind of blows my mind.
Meg Stout Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Duncan said: I just read for the 3rd time the bio on Truman Madsen. He says that his dad, first of all had 5 patriarchal blessings, but I think with the first one the Patriarch gave it to him and his siblings when he was like 5 years old or something. I hope I am remembering his age correctly. But to get the blessing the dad had to give a load of hay in exchange for it. Basically the Patriarch said give me a load of hay and i'll give your kids their blessings. My question is was that common back then? 1890's or was that just a bizarre occurrence? I know William Smith charged people money for giving them a patriarchal blessing. I suspect that by 1890 there were still some who felt they deserved to be paid for providing a blessing. However I think William and those who followed his example in this manner are the exception. Certainly it is no longer acceptable for a patriarch to charge for their services. 3
Calm Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 I believe the paragraph on payment is accurate: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchal_blessing 1
Scott Lloyd Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 Somehow, the New Testament incident where the apostles said. "Thy money perish with thee" comes to mind. 1
Popular Post The Nehor Posted June 23, 2016 Popular Post Posted June 23, 2016 It made a little more sense back then when patriarchs would have to travel a lot to give blessings and not be able to earn a living. These days when the blessing recipient drives to your home to get the blessing it makes less sense. I see the reasoning for it back then but I am glad the practice has gone away. 9
CMZ Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) History of the Church talks about Joseph Smith, Sr., getting paid I think ten cents per word for the patriarchal blessings he gave. And I think it mentions the New Testament adage of the laborer being worthy of his hire as justification. Edited July 10, 2016 by CMZ 1
strappinglad Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 14 hours ago, CMZ said: History of the Church talks about Joseph Smith, Sr., getting paid I think ten cents per word for the patriarchal blessings he gave. And I think it mentions the New Testament adage of the laborer being worthy of his hire as justification. This seems way out of the norm for the era. A 100 word blessing would be $ 10 or roughly a weeks wage for many folks. My spidey sense is tingling.
JAHS Posted July 11, 2016 Posted July 11, 2016 Bishops and his counselors in the early days of the church were also paid: "And the elders or high priests who are appointed to assist the bishop as counselors in all things, are to have their families supported out of the property which is consecrated to the bishop, for the good of the poor, and for other purposes, as before mentioned; Or they are to receive a just remuneration for all their services, either a stewardship or otherwise, as may be thought best or decided by the counselors and bishop. And the bishop, also, shall receive his support, or a just remuneration for all his services in the church." (D&C 42:71-73) Because the Bishoprics back then dedicated most of their time to serving their congregations, I guess this might equate to the living allowances higher Church leaders receive today. 1
CMZ Posted July 11, 2016 Posted July 11, 2016 Correction: when going back to search on this I found that the rate was apparently not ten cents per word but ten dollars per week: Quote In a meeting of a High Council and the Presidency at Kirtland, it was decided that, as the laborer is worthy of his hire, whenever President Joseph Smith, Sen., is called upon to pronounce Patriarchal blessings upon the Church, he be paid for his services at the rate of ten dollars per week and his expenses. History of the Church, vol. 2, chap. 20 There might be some other related reference in the History of the Church in addition to this.
JLHPROF Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 Just reading today that people used to get paid for a session for the dead during the depression too. I can't imagine accepting money for temple work.
Jeanne Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 2 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Just reading today that people used to get paid for a session for the dead during the depression too. I can't imagine accepting money for temple work. I guess it beats hell...where admissions is free and you pay to get out!
UtahTexan Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, Jeanne said: I guess it beats hell...where admissions is free and you pay to get out! yes....darn them for taking a buck or two to help defray costs! next thing you know it will lead to things like selling indulgences and preachers with own jets! Maybe...just maybe...we should ask kids to go to foreign states or countries and work without pay for a couple of years...that will show them! Or maybe....we can just go to someone's home and find things to complain about.......
Jeanne Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, CountryBoy said: yes....darn them for taking a buck or two to help defray costs! next thing you know it will lead to things like selling indulgences and preachers with own jets! Maybe...just maybe...we should ask kids to go to foreign states or countries and work without pay for a couple of years...that will show them! Or maybe....we can just go to someone's home and find things to complain about....... I hope you didn't take me seriously, what I wrote is part of a words to a song. You are so quick to anger with me..why? Edited July 12, 2016 by Jeanne
UtahTexan Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 1 minute ago, Jeanne said: I hope you didn't take me seriously, what I wrote is part of a words to a song. You are so quick to anger with me..why? lol...I was not angry. Boards do not get me angry. I find them fun. I am often surprised at how many people are so unhappy with life that, instead of going someplace to upliftt, they prefer to come someplace and complain or throw stones. Not sure why you feel you assume so many things about the Church....and me. (or why you can be so wrin g so often :))
Jeanne Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 1 minute ago, CountryBoy said: lol...I was not angry. Boards do not get me angry. I find them fun. I am often surprised at how many people are so unhappy with life that, instead of going someplace to upliftt, they prefer to come someplace and complain or throw stones. Not sure why you feel you assume so many things about the Church....and me. (or why you can be so wrin g so often :)) Okay...I wasn't complaining in my post..my weird humor was trying to be funny. I don't always just assume as you say, I have lived it for over 40 years and like you..just have some questions. Sorry if I rub you the wrong way but your perception of me is way off base.
mrmarklin Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 This was common practice until relatively recently. When I received my blessing back in the 60s, my father offered a gratuity to the Patriarch. He replied that they didn't do that anymore.
UtahTexan Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 10 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Okay...I wasn't complaining in my post..my weird humor was trying to be funny. I don't always just assume as you say, I have lived it for over 40 years and like you..just have some questions. Sorry if I rub you the wrong way but your perception of me is way off base. Shrugs......look at your posts...you will see where I, and others, are coming from.
Johnnie Cake Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 On 6/22/2016 at 6:44 PM, Duncan said: I just read for the 3rd time the bio on Truman Madsen. He says that his dad, first of all had 5 patriarchal blessings, but I think with the first one the Patriarch gave it to him and his siblings when he was like 5 years old or something. I hope I am remembering his age correctly. But to get the blessing the dad had to give a load of hay in exchange for it. Basically the Patriarch said give me a load of hay and i'll give your kids their blessings. My question is was that common back then? 1890's or was that just a bizarre occurrence? Pretty sure Joseph Smith Sr. charged to give a Patriarchal blessing when he was church patriarch. Was it $2.00? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchal_blessing
Jeanne Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) 17 minutes ago, CountryBoy said: Shrugs......look at your posts...you will see where I, and others, are coming from. But you are bringing this up from one single post..I did nothing to you to said anything about the church. I know people don't agree with me here on somethings..but a lot of them I believe respect me. Let it be. I just won't respond to your posts..is that okay? 16 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: Pretty sure Joseph Smith Sr. charged to give a Patriarchal blessing when he was church patriarch. Was it $2.00? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchal_blessing Not sure how Johnnie got attached here...but hey..! Edited July 12, 2016 by Jeanne
UtahTexan Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 16 minutes ago, Jeanne said: But you are bringing this up from one single post..I did nothing to you to said anything about the church. I know people don't agree with me here on somethings..but a lot of them I believe respect me. Let it be. I just won't respond to your posts..is that okay? up to you. I did not base my comment on just one post. 16 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Not sure how Johnnie got attached here...but hey..! Fate?
Jeanne Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 Ju 5 minutes ago, CountryBoy said: up to you. I did not base my comment on just one post. Fate? Just so you know..I am not on this board because i am unhappy. You don't know me enough to make that call. 1
Tacenda Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 On 7/10/2016 at 6:44 PM, JAHS said: Bishops and his counselors in the early days of the church were also paid: "And the elders or high priests who are appointed to assist the bishop as counselors in all things, are to have their families supported out of the property which is consecrated to the bishop, for the good of the poor, and for other purposes, as before mentioned; Or they are to receive a just remuneration for all their services, either a stewardship or otherwise, as may be thought best or decided by the counselors and bishop. And the bishop, also, shall receive his support, or a just remuneration for all his services in the church." (D&C 42:71-73) Because the Bishoprics back then dedicated most of their time to serving their congregations, I guess this might equate to the living allowances higher Church leaders receive today. Just as other faiths have ministers, I guess we as members better cut them some slack and not get all up in the air that our church doesn't have a paid ministry. There ministers do it full time just as they mention in the D & C that our members did back then. I wish I had this post for all those members that are proud of the fact we don't pay our bishops and ward members. I use to be in the same mind frame until I thought about it, and thought about ministers of other faiths and the time they devoted. I don't know that they can delegate as much as LDS bishops can, but don't know much about other faiths' leaders really, just a guess. 1
UtahTexan Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Ju Just so you know..I am not on this board because i am unhappy. You don't know me enough to make that call. fair enough. I have just seen, in lengthy time on earth, that when people go somewhere to be negative and cast stones (despite the passive/aggressive style of some) instead of being uplifting somewhere else, they are unhappy, whether they wish to admit or not. I was like that......could not wait to cast stones......be negative. anyway...you do not know me well enough to determine when i angry.....but you do it anyway...perhaps we both.....well...you know
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