stemelbow Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 Elder Holland: Quote "Does it ever dawn on anybody that God might be tired?.... He's people tired. He's blessing tired, he's parable tired. He's sermon tired. Everywhere he goes he's tired! It's people, people, people, problems, problems, problems! I can't walk, I can't see, I can't hear! Bless my child, bless my father, heal my wounds. He’s exhausted. At least he has to be to be sleeping through this storm." I was speaking with my wife about Elder Holland's recent complaints and she pointed me to something missed when I read the transcript. Ooops. She said, this in her mind was even more discouraging then his expression of fury for those who leave. I see what she means. Why would we ever consider God to be tired of us? That's a terribly discouraging thought, no?
Senator Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 Sounds to me that Elder Holland might be projecting a bit.... 4
Thinking Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 It doesn't even make sense that an omnipotent being could be tired. It seems that such a being would have unlimited patience and strength to help His children navigate through their trials. 1
Atheist Mormon Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, stemelbow said: Why would we ever consider God to be tired of us? That's a terribly discouraging thought, no? And why not? It happened before...He wiped out almost everyone once, (If you believe in Flood Story, that is). 2
Ahab Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 Perfectly understandable to me! I grew up in the South where the phrase "sick and tired" was a common way to express agitation and frustration, like how my Mom would say to me sometimes that she was sick and tired of all the crap I did without learning from my mistakes and her corrective measures. I think Elder Holland is probably familiar with the phrase "sick and tired" too but chose not to use the word sick lest some people think he was somehow suffering from poor health. 1
Popular Post Buckeye Posted May 3, 2016 Popular Post Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) There's plenty of scriptural support for the notion that God gets tired and even sometimes wants to throw in the towel. A good example of this is Jacob 5 (allegory of the vineyard). Now, whether these scriptural accounts accurately reflect how God actually behaves, or instead reflect man's limited understanding, is a question each member has to answer on their own. But if one reads the scriptures literally (especially the OT), then Elder Holland's suggestion that God may be sleeping/tired/etc. should not be that surprising. FWIW, as with the scriptural accounts, I think Elder Holland's comments are a much more accurate reflection of his own mindset than a revelation as to what God is doing at this particular moment. IMO, the strongest take away from these comments is that Elder Holland feels that the church is passing through a storm at the moment and he and the other senior leaders are not getting much direct instruction from above. The comment is more a reflection of Elder Holland trying make sense of his world than it is any great revelation to us. I do feel for him and the other church leaders. There's a lot of stress right now. Edited May 3, 2016 by Buckeye 7
Ahab Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 20 minutes ago, stemelbow said: Elder Holland: I was speaking with my wife about Elder Holland's recent complaints and she pointed me to something missed when I read the transcript. Ooops. She said, this in her mind was even more discouraging then his expression of fury for those who leave. I see what she means. Why would we ever consider God to be tired of us? That's a terribly discouraging thought, no? You and your wife could at least try to do something to cheer him up a bit, couldn't you? Think of how he feels instead of focusing on yourselves and your own feelings of discouragement. Do something to try to encourage him a little. 3
Popular Post Nevo Posted May 3, 2016 Popular Post Posted May 3, 2016 20 minutes ago, stemelbow said: Why would we ever consider God to be tired of us? That's a terribly discouraging thought, no? But Elder Holland isn't talking about Heavenly Father here. He's talking about the mortal Jesus. Who did get tired and hungry and all of that. 5
stemelbow Posted May 3, 2016 Author Posted May 3, 2016 28 minutes ago, Thinking said: It doesn't even make sense that an omnipotent being could be tired. It seems that such a being would have unlimited patience and strength to help His children navigate through their trials. That's what I imagined. How would such a thing be possible?
stemelbow Posted May 3, 2016 Author Posted May 3, 2016 10 minutes ago, Nevo said: But Elder Holland isn't talking about Heavenly Father here. He's talking about the mortal Jesus. Who did get tired and hungry and all of that. But to speak of the mortal Jesus in the present doesn't fit. He might have to go back and correct it by saying, He was so tired.
stemelbow Posted May 3, 2016 Author Posted May 3, 2016 18 minutes ago, Buckeye said: There's plenty of scriptural support for the notion that God gets tired and even sometimes wants to throw in the towel. A good example of this is Jacob 5 (allegory of the vineyard). Now, whether these scriptural accounts accurately reflect how God actually behaves, or instead reflect man's limited understanding, is a question each member has to answer on their own. But if one reads the scriptures literally (especially the OT), then Elder Holland's suggestion that God may be sleeping/tired/etc. should not be that surprising. FWIW, as with the scriptural accounts, I think Elder Holland's comments are a much more accurate reflection of his own mindset than a revelation as to what God is doing at this particular moment. IMO, the strongest take away from these comments is that Elder Holland feels that the church is passing through a storm at the moment and he and the other senior leaders are not getting much direct instruction from above. The comment is more a reflection of Elder Holland trying make sense of his world than it is any great revelation to us. I do feel for him and the other church leaders. There's a lot of stress right now. Hey, fair points. I find him teaching us that God's too tired of us, to be problematic though. Can't he express himself without discouraging us? 1
Senator Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 1 minute ago, stemelbow said: But to speak of the mortal Jesus in the present doesn't fit. He might have to go back and correct it by saying, He was so tired. I actually think he was speaking with some sarcastic humor and probably didn't intend for the statement to be taken literally. 3
stemelbow Posted May 3, 2016 Author Posted May 3, 2016 13 minutes ago, Ahab said: You and your wife could at least try to do something to cheer him up a bit, couldn't you? Think of how he feels instead of focusing on yourselves and your own feelings of discouragement. Do something to try to encourage him a little. I guess so. We need to stop taking our business to God, then?
hope_for_things Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 I found that section to be quite disappointing as well. Elder Holland sounded like the tired one to me. I think he was expressing his personal journey in that section. I actually feel bad for the guy, and for all the Apostles. They should have emeritus status. They should be able to spend the sunset years of their lives with their families, not in these demanding roles. Sure its an ego boost, and they enjoy a celebrity status of sorts, but I'm sure it can be exhausting. 1
Popular Post Nevo Posted May 3, 2016 Popular Post Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, stemelbow said: But to speak of the mortal Jesus in the present doesn't fit. He might have to go back and correct it by saying, He was so tired. No, it does fit. Elder Holland is was relating a story from the NT: Quote “That same day, when the even was come, he saith unto them, Let us pass over unto the other side. And when they had sent away the multitude, they took him even as he was in the ship. And there were also with him other little ships. And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was now full. And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awakened him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish?” (Mark 4 35:38) This is a serious storm. The ship’s taking water. It’s clearly, clearly a serious storm. Part of the reason we know it’s serious is who’s fearful? Who’s panicky here? The most experienced fisherman in all the Galilee, that’s who. Peter, James and John chief among them – six of the original twelve were fishermen from the Galilee – Peter, James and John were the most famous and probably the most experienced. And if it’s serious enough, that they’re frightened, it’s a serious storm. But Christ is tired. Does it ever, does it ever dawn on you, does it ever dawn on me, does it ever dawn on anybody that God might be tired? Or that Christ might be tired? Or certainly in his mortality that he was tired. He’s sleeping through this storm! How tired could you be? He’s people tired. He’s blessing tired. He’s parable tired. He’s sermon tired. Everywhere he goes he’s tired. It’s people, people, people, problems, problems, problems – I can’t walk, I can’t see, I can’t hear, bless my child, bless my father, heal my wounds. He’s exhausted. At least he has to be to be sleeping through this storm. Ship apparently looked like [it’s] going to go down. I’m grateful that someone, I’m grateful that someone had the sensitivity, as they pushed away from shore, to give him a pillow. I mean that. Somebody thought the Son of the living God might at least deserve a pillow for his troubles. He was asleep on a pillow, and they awakened the same answered carest not that we perish? I’m not sure how he looked at them when they woke him up. I’m sure it was compassionate. I’m sure it was loving. He was always that. But I wonder if he just didn’t kind of – what would he wonder about? Well, he arose and rebuked the wind and said unto the sea “Peace, be still.” And the wind ceased and there was a great calm. Edited May 3, 2016 by Nevo 11
Ahab Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 14 minutes ago, Nevo said: But Elder Holland isn't talking about Heavenly Father here. He's talking about the mortal Jesus. Who did get tired and hungry and all of that. No, when he and other apostles use the term "God" they are generally referring to our Eternal Father. Like Paul said in one of his letters, we know there are many called gods or lords but to us there is one God (or one person we have in mind when we say God), our Father, and one Lord, Jesus Christ. Not that Jesus isn't God too, by being the same kind of being as our Father who we refer to as God, but that our Father is usually who we have in mind when we say God.
Ahab Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 23 minutes ago, stemelbow said: I guess so. We need to stop taking our business to God, then? Not entirely, but yes please try give him a break every now and then unless you're really really really sure you can't solve your own problems yourselves with what he has already taught you. Basically just try to be the kind of children you'd like your own children to me when they have a problem and you've already taught them how to work through it or endure it.
Popular Post Scott Lloyd Posted May 3, 2016 Popular Post Posted May 3, 2016 Seriously? Another thread dedicated to bashing Elder Holland? Sheesh! This is getting tiresome. 11
sunstoned Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 44 minutes ago, hope_for_things said: I found that section to be quite disappointing as well. Elder Holland sounded like the tired one to me. I think he was expressing his personal journey in that section. I actually feel bad for the guy, and for all the Apostles. They should have emeritus status. They should be able to spend the sunset years of their lives with their families, not in these demanding roles. Sure its an ego boost, and they enjoy a celebrity status of sorts, but I'm sure it can be exhausting. Not to mention the cog dis that I'm sure he is experiencing.
JulieM Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, stemelbow said: Elder Holland: "Does it ever dawn on anybody that God might be tired?.... He's people tired. He's blessing tired, he's parable tired. He's sermon tired. Everywhere he goes he's tired! It's people, people, people, problems, problems, problems! I can't walk, I can't see, I can't hear! Bless my child, bless my father, heal my wounds. He’s exhausted. At least he has to be sleeping through this storm." This quote stuck out for me too when I read this talk. What "storm" is he speaking of and why does he have "to be sleeping through" it? I also felt that maybe Elder Holland is tired too and is expressing how he feels at times as one of the leaders of the church with all that is expected of him or with people always looking to him, along with what has to be a very busy, demanding schedule. Edited May 3, 2016 by JulieM
JulieM Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Seriously? Another thread dedicated to bashing Elder Holland? Sheesh! This is getting tiresome. Who is bashing Elder Holland? (I'll read the thread again, but didn't feel this at all here. ETA: I need to catch up...posts were made and I hadn't refreshed before posting mine. So I could have missed what you're talking about. Edited May 3, 2016 by JulieM 1
Jeanne Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 If this is true, I am going to take comfort that now he knows how I feel.I am wearing a t-shirt Sunday on Mother's Day that says.."Today, I am NOT Mom." 3
Ahab Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, Jeanne said: If this is true, I am going to take comfort that now he knows how I feel.I am wearing a t-shirt Sunday on Mother's Day that says.."Today, I am NOT Mom." Tired, huh.
bluebell Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 9 minutes ago, JulieM said: This quote stuck out for me too when I read this talk. What "storm" is he speaking of and why does he have "to be sleeping through" it? I also felt that maybe Elder Holland is tired too and is expressing how he feels at times as one of the leaders of the church with all that is expected of him or with people always looking to him, along with what has to be a very busy, demanding schedule. I think Nevo's post explains the storm thing pretty well. I wasn't sure what he meant either until I saw it in full context. 3
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