JLHPROF Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 13 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Well a problem is so many are resigning right now too. I don't think many are resigning, certainly not as a significant number or percent of members. I think inactivity is a much bigger challenge facing the Church if only 1/3 of members are active.
thesometimesaint Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 1 minute ago, JLHPROF said: I don't think many are resigning, certainly not as a significant number or percent of members. I think inactivity is a much bigger challenge facing the Church if only 1/3 of members are active. Depends on how you count. The Church uses the standard of attending one Sacrament Meeting per month and/or desire to be counted as active.
will227457 Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 6 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: Depends on how you count. The Church uses the standard of attending one Sacrament Meeting per month and/or desire to be counted as active. It is the highest attendance in sacrament they only count the last month of every quarter.
smac97 Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, Calm said: My version: Love God. Have faith. Love family. Work hard. Love others. Repent. And have some fun while enduring. Rinse, lather, repeat I like it. I also like this: Quote Mr. Spock: History is replete with turning points, lieutenant. We must have faith. Lt. Valeris: Faith? Mr. Spock: That the universe will unfold as it should. Lt. Valeris: But is that logical, surely we must .... Mr. Spock: Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end. --Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country And this: Quote Never fear, Duncan. The good will overcome. Trust in that. --Lord Locksley, Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves And this: Quote Pippin: I didn't think it would end this way. Gandalf: End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path... One that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass... And then you see it. Pippin: What? Gandalf?... See what? Gandalf: White shores... and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise. Pippin: [smiling] Well, that isn't so bad. Gandalf: [softly] No... No it isn't. --The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King And these: Moses 6:32 - "Open thy mouth, and it shall be filled, and I will give thee utterance, for all flesh is in my hands, and I will do as seemeth me good." D&C 101:16 - "Therefore, let your hearts be comforted concerning Zion; for all flesh is in mine hands; be still and know that I am God." Psalms 46:10 - "Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth." Mark 4:39 - "And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm." 2 Nephi 27:23 - "For behold, I am God; and I am a God of miracles; and I will show unto the world that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and I work not among the children of men save it be according to their faith." D&C 35:8 - "For I am God, and mine arm is not shortened; and I will show miracles, signs, and wonders, unto all those who believe on my name." Thanks, -Smac Edited February 5, 2016 by smac97 1
thesometimesaint Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 6 minutes ago, will227457 said: It is the highest attendance in sacrament they only count the last month of every quarter. True, but irrelevant to my point. Activity of the individual is not dependent on a quarterly report.
JLHPROF Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: Depends on how you count. The Church uses the standard of attending one Sacrament Meeting per month and/or desire to be counted as active. I'm sure the numbers are never as bad as the critics and doubters would have us believe. But I am still certain we have a bigger challenge with inactivity than with people quitting the Church. 2
will227457 Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 7 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: True, but irrelevant to my point. Activity of the individual is not dependent on a quarterly report. I am sure I didn't read your previous post, and activity of the individual cannot be measured by a report. That is what the church has to work with. I'll take my ward as an example. 525 members on the rolls. 185-200 sacrament meeting attendance. We probably get up to about 215-220 when all the stragglers show up. That is about a 40% activity rate as measured by attendance. Then the 80/20 rules comes into play. Of the 200 who rolled out of bed and made it to church on time to be preached at only 40-50 of them want to actively participate in the ward. This means holding and fulfilling a calling. Activity rates are very low.
thesometimesaint Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 51 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: I'm sure the numbers are never as bad as the critics and doubters would have us believe. But I am still certain we have a bigger challenge with inactivity than with people quitting the Church. One meeting once a month and/or desire is a pretty low standard. Can and should we do better? Absolutely.
Avatar4321 Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 40 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: One meeting once a month and/or desire is a pretty low standard. Can and should we do better? Absolutely. It's still better than many who only do Christmas an easter.
mnn727 Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 18 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: I believe it. Out of the 15 million in the world, about only 4.5 million are active. You've been reading too many Anti-Mormon sites. CFR on your stats
carbon dioxide Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 19 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: 15 million out of over 7 billion people is not even a drop in the hat, while there's over a billion muslims and other religions. Shouldn't the one true religion be much larger since we're in the eleventh hour, or is it really true that there will be very very very few that find the truth in this life? How many people were following Christ in the 11th hour of his first coming? It is said that the wickedness of this world exceeds or will exceed the wickedness in Noah times. How many people converted to the Lord by Noah? I would say that one evidence of the truth is that it rarely accepted by the people. If the Church had a couple of billion people, that might be more evidence that the Church is not true.
carbon dioxide Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 16 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Who said I have beef? I'm just disappointed that out of 7 billion people in the world, there's only 15 million members and 4.5 million active. 15 million out of 7 billion is less than 1% of the world. I feel we should've had more success by now worldwide since Russell M Nelson said we're in the 11th hour. Pewdiepie has more youtube subscribers than there are members of God's true church. No need to be disappointed. If you are worried that the Celestial Kingdom is going to be sparely populated, think about all the children who have died before age 8. All those who have died who would have been baptized but did not have the chance. And then add all those on the countless billions of other worlds that have gone to the celestial Kingdom. I am sure when we get the Celestial Kingdom, there will be places that will be densely populated as Hong Kong. 2
thesometimesaint Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 30 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said: It's still better than many who only do Christmas an easter. Agreed.
cinepro Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 19 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: 15 million out of over 7 billion people is not even a drop in the hat, while there's over a billion muslims and other religions. Shouldn't the one true religion be much larger since we're in the eleventh hour, or is it really true that there will be very very very few that find the truth in this life? Pretty much the biggest mistake a believer in any faith system can make is to start creating expectations about how things "should" be (i.e. testable hypotheses). Once you start creating measurable expectations, the end is near. The ideal situation is to have believers more focused not on how things "should" be (or even "could" be), but instead on why the way things as they are right now is the ideal (or at least acceptable) state of things for their faith system to be "true". In other words, no matter how big or how small the Church ever gets, it will always be just the right size, whether it's a stone rolling down the hill or the narrow gate through which few can pass. 1
cinepro Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 17 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: No need to be disappointed. If you are worried that the Celestial Kingdom is going to be sparely populated, think about all the children who have died before age 8. All those who have died who would have been baptized but did not have the chance. And then add all those on the countless billions of other worlds that have gone to the celestial Kingdom. I am sure when we get the Celestial Kingdom, there will be places that will be densely populated as Hong Kong. It's interesting to think that those who actually found the gospel in this life, got baptized, went through a Temple, and endured to the end could be the vast minority in the Celestial Kingdom.
SeekingUnderstanding Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, cinepro said: It's interesting to think that those who actually found the gospel in this life, got baptized, went through a Temple, and endured to the end could be the vast minority in the Celestial Kingdom. Based on some back of the envelope calculations by a BYU professor: Edit: Source - https://bycommonconsent.com/2008/12/01/its-raining-men-celestial-demographics-again/ Edited February 5, 2016 by SeekingUnderstanding 3
cinepro Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 53 minutes ago, mnn727 said: You've been reading too many Anti-Mormon sites. CFR on your stats Obviously it's impossible to know for sure without the Church divulging, and there are many ways to categorize members, but Cumorah.com has been looking at the issue for years and has arrived at this estimate. This is based on people who would self-identify as "Mormon" when asked in a census or other survey: Analysis of existing data on LDS member activity from official sources, national censuses, and other existing sociologic data lead to several key conclusions. First, less than half of individuals claimed as members by the LDS Church worldwide identify the LDS Church as their faith of preference. The percentage varies from the mid-sixties in the United States to 20-27% in Latin America. The low correlations between official membership claims and self-identified religious affiliations in Latin American nations that account for the majority of non-U.S. LDS membership make it statistically impossible for this ratio worldwide to reach the 50% threshold. If neighboring nations with similar political and cultural circumstances demonstrate trends similar those of larger nations from which data are available, approximately 40% of individuals claimed as members by the LDS Church worldwide identify the Church as their faith of preference. http://www.cumorah.com/index.php?target=church_growth_articles&story_id=21 2
Gray Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, cinepro said: Obviously it's impossible to know for sure without the Church divulging, and there are many ways to categorize members, but Cumorah.com has been looking at the issue for years and has arrived at this estimate. This is based on people who would self-identify as "Mormon" when asked in a census or other survey: Yes, and of the 40% of members on the rolls who self-identify as LDS, some smaller proportion actually show up to church. ETA: reactivation efforts will probably be most effective for those of the 40% who are inactive but self-ID as LDS, rather than the 60% who no longer consider themselves LDS. Edited February 5, 2016 by Gray 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted February 5, 2016 Author Posted February 5, 2016 Does anyone know if the rumor is true that people are kept on the records until they would have been 110 years old?
Calm Posted February 6, 2016 Posted February 6, 2016 If there is no record of their death, resigning or excommunication, it make sense that people would be kept on the records until there is a certainty that they are dead. 110 is a good cutoff imo to ensure not removing anyone who is still alive. I would say here the concern is less about having accurate numbers and more for making sure that anyone alive has access to services and we attempt to establish contact with them (there at least used to be a department in the Church that tries to track down lost members, I assume there still is, this follows the commandment we are to care and support our fellow Saints imo).
Jim Stiles Posted February 6, 2016 Posted February 6, 2016 43 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Does anyone know if the rumor is true that people are kept on the records until they would have been 110 years old? My late father died in 2005. He was an inactive LDS member. Last year (2015), LDS members asked me for his date of death. I hope that the LDS records did not list him as a living member between 2005 and 2015. He was inactive between 1980 and 2015. Most Christian churches remove people from their rolls, if they do not attend in a year. Needless to say, I do not take LDS released member statistics seriously. 1
Calm Posted February 6, 2016 Posted February 6, 2016 This tech discussion appears to indicate that it is an automatic process of removal, the program times out the membership at 110 years of age if there is no death recorded. Sensible to me. Much better to err on the side of caution, especially given that many of the elderly need attention from our wards but are in situations where they are easily misplaced such as in care facilities. https://tech.lds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1555
Robert F. Smith Posted February 6, 2016 Posted February 6, 2016 On 2/4/2016 at 4:42 PM, VideoGameJunkie said: 15 million out of over 7 billion people is not even a drop in the hat, while there's over a billion muslims and other religions. Shouldn't the one true religion be much larger since we're in the eleventh hour, or is it really true that there will be very very very few that find the truth in this life? It's a whole lot better than the mere 1 million members when I was baptized -- especially now that most LDS members live outside the USA. This is a world Church, and it has all manner of amazing technology at its beck and call to get out the word before Kingdom come . . . 1
mtomm Posted February 6, 2016 Posted February 6, 2016 Logistically we can only sustain so much growth at a time. Too rapid of an expansion would be foolish.
Avatar4321 Posted February 6, 2016 Posted February 6, 2016 5 hours ago, mtomm said: Logistically we can only sustain so much growth at a time. Too rapid of an expansion would be foolish. The Lord will provide what we are prepared for.
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