VideoGameJunkie Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 15 million out of over 7 billion people is not even a drop in the hat, while there's over a billion muslims and other religions. Shouldn't the one true religion be much larger since we're in the eleventh hour, or is it really true that there will be very very very few that find the truth in this life?
JLHPROF Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. And even fewer that stick with it - "The majority of the members of this Church are the very elect of our God. There are some that are not so good, who care not for God, for His servant Brigham, for Heber, nor for the Twelve Apostles. But the day will come when the Lord will choose a people out of this people, upon whom he will bestow his choicest blessings. Think of the great numbers who were baptized into this Church when the Work first commenced in England, and how few there are who have stood to this day—“many are called, but few are chosen.” - Heber C. Kimball 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted February 5, 2016 Author Posted February 5, 2016 38 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. And even fewer that stick with it - "The majority of the members of this Church are the very elect of our God. There are some that are not so good, who care not for God, for His servant Brigham, for Heber, nor for the Twelve Apostles. But the day will come when the Lord will choose a people out of this people, upon whom he will bestow his choicest blessings. Think of the great numbers who were baptized into this Church when the Work first commenced in England, and how few there are who have stood to this day—“many are called, but few are chosen.” - Heber C. Kimball I believe it. Out of the 15 million in the world, about only 4.5 million are active. That's a very few select group which I'm happy to be apart of.
Sanpitch Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said: I believe it. Out of the 15 million in the world, about only 4.5 million are active. That's a very few select group which I'm happy to be apart of. I don't know what your problem is, maybe the story about the gold plates provided by a American farm boy just doesn't impress people around the world. My JW son just sent this web site about the number of languages their publications are in, it's amazing, it might be interesting. It indicates that you people better get going or you're going to be smothered by JWs. There are about 8 million active JWs. I'm not trying to sell the faith, I'm not one of them. https://www.tomedes.com/translator-hub/most-translated-website.php Edited February 5, 2016 by Sanpitch spelling 1
Calm Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) Very impressive. Hopefully we will catch up since eventually they have to max out on how many languages they will have : https://www.lds.org/ensign/2015/05/news-of-the-church/book-of-mormon-in-110-languages?lang=eng We should be up to 113 for the BoM by now. Website looks around 12o: https://www.lds.org/languages?lang=eng Edited February 5, 2016 by Calm
Sevenbak Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 2 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: 15 million out of over 7 billion people is not even a drop in the hat, while there's over a billion muslims and other religions. Shouldn't the one true religion be much larger since we're in the eleventh hour, or is it really true that there will be very very very few that find the truth in this life? 1Nephi 14:12 "And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw." I'm not sure what your beef is exactly, or why you think the numbers are a problem?? 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted February 5, 2016 Author Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Sevenbak said: 1Nephi 14:12 "And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw." I'm not sure what your beef is exactly, or why you think the numbers are a problem?? Who said I have beef? I'm just disappointed that out of 7 billion people in the world, there's only 15 million members and 4.5 million active. 15 million out of 7 billion is less than 1% of the world. I feel we should've had more success by now worldwide since Russell M Nelson said we're in the 11th hour. Pewdiepie has more youtube subscribers than there are members of God's true church. Edited February 5, 2016 by VideoGameJunkie
Guest Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 2 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: 15 million out of over 7 billion people is not even a drop in the hat, while there's over a billion muslims and other religions. Shouldn't the one true religion be much larger since we're in the eleventh hour, or is it really true that there will be very very very few that find the truth in this life? Throughout scripture we are told that the gate is narrow and there are few that will find it. Also that "...many are called, but few are chosen". Not to mention there a so many countries that will not let us in to preach the gospel. Most of the work of the gospel and the fertile ground in which we can plant, will come when Christ reigns and in the spirit world. Too many will continue to choke on the weeds (or cares of this world) which smother the soul.
VideoGameJunkie Posted February 5, 2016 Author Posted February 5, 2016 27 minutes ago, Pa Pa said: Throughout scripture we are told that the gate is narrow and there are few that will find it. Also that "...many are called, but few are chosen". Not to mention there a so many countries that will not let us in to preach the gospel. Most of the work of the gospel and the fertile ground in which we can plant, will come when Christ reigns and in the spirit world. Too many will continue to choke on the weeds (or cares of this world) which smother the soul. Agreed. Like communist China and their 2 billion people.
strappinglad Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 You can always ask if your ward mission leader needs any help. Anyway, if the JWs can grow despite the track record of Second Coming prophecies, we ought to be able to overcome " the stone in the hat " problem, no? 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted February 5, 2016 Author Posted February 5, 2016 Just now, strappinglad said: You can always ask if your ward mission leader needs any help. Anyway, if the JWs can grow despite the track record of Second Coming prophecies, we ought to be able to overcome " the stone in the hat " problem, no? Well a problem is so many are resigning right now too.
SteveO Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) Missionary work has been exploding as far as I'm concerned...of course I'm talking about family history work which I've recently started. We forget how important and prominent that work plays in our responsibilities as members. FYI, you ever want to see miracles...just do family history, the veil gets pretty thin sometimes it's incredible. Edited February 5, 2016 by SteveO 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted February 5, 2016 Author Posted February 5, 2016 7 minutes ago, SteveO said: Missionary work has been exploding as far as I'm concerned...of course I'm talking about family history work which I've recently started. We forget how important and prominent that work plays in our responsibilities as members. FYI, you ever want to see miracles...just do family history, the veil gets pretty thin sometimes it's incredible. Agreed. Temple work is very important for all those that died.
Sevenbak Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Who said I have beef? I'm just disappointed that out of 7 billion people in the world, there's only 15 million members and 4.5 million active. 15 million out of 7 billion is less than 1% of the world. I feel we should've had more success by now worldwide since Russell M Nelson said we're in the 11th hour. Pewdiepie has more youtube subscribers than there are members of God's true church. Well, you obviously are taking issue with what Nephi describes as "small" and "few". I don't think it's our place to define the terms. "Shouldn't the one true religion be much larger" sounds like steadying the ark to me.
Avatar4321 Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Well a problem is so many are resigning right now too. I've seen little evidence to suggest that's true. I think if more members would step up and obtain the power the Lord wishes to endow on us, we would be much more successful at taking the gospel to the world. 1
why me Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 7 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: 15 million out of over 7 billion people is not even a drop in the hat, while there's over a billion muslims and other religions. Shouldn't the one true religion be much larger since we're in the eleventh hour, or is it really true that there will be very very very few that find the truth in this life? When it comes to religion the mormons were late out of the gate. Most people in the world have a religion which was given to them centuries ago. Not easy to convince someone to give up a possible cultural identity for something else. Religious identity have been molded into their fabric of life, whether through worship or culture.
smac97 Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 7 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: 15 million out of over 7 billion people is not even a drop in the hat, while there's over a billion muslims and other religions. Shouldn't the one true religion be much larger since we're in the eleventh hour, or is it really true that there will be very very very few that find the truth in this life? My thoughts: 1. The Latter-day Saints need to be doing a better job at missionary work, retention and fellowshipping. 2. The leaven/salt metaphors in the Scriptures, together with more specific ones (such as Matthew 7:14 ("Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it") and 1 Nephi 14:12 ("And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters...")) lead me to think that the Plan has always anticipated small numbers. 3. The Church has a lot of strong opposition. Some won't joint because of this opposition. Some won't stay because of this opposition. 4. The Plan includes some grand activities to take place during the Millennium which, I think, mitigate concerns about "very very very few that find the truth": Quote In the Millennium, when the Kingdom of God is established on the earth in power, glory and perfection, and the reign of wickedness that has so long prevailed is subdued, the Saints of God will have the privilege of building their temples, and of entering into them, becoming, as it were, pillars in the temples of God [see Revelation 3:12], and they will officiate for their dead. Then we will see our friends come up, and perhaps some that we have been acquainted with here. … And we will have revelations to know our forefathers clear back to Father Adam and Mother Eve, and we will enter into the temples of God and officiate for them. Then [children] will be sealed to [parents] until the chain is made perfect back to Adam, so that there will be a perfect chain of Priesthood from Adam to the winding-up scene. This will be the work of the Latter-day Saints in the Millennium (DBY, 116). We just need to stay the course. Have faith. Work hard. Repent. Rinse, lather, repeat. Thanks, -Smac 1
thesometimesaint Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 4 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Who said I have beef? I'm just disappointed that out of 7 billion people in the world, there's only 15 million members and 4.5 million active. 15 million out of 7 billion is less than 1% of the world. I feel we should've had more success by now worldwide since Russell M Nelson said we're in the 11th hour. Pewdiepie has more youtube subscribers than there are members of God's true church. We are supposed to be the salt that gives savor the whole loaf of the bread. How much salt does a loaf of bread take? About 2%. So we do have our work cut out for us, but it is not a dire as you seem to think. 1
smac97 Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 4 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Well a problem is so many are resigning right now too. Yes, well. That happens: Quote 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. ... 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. Our job is to keep the faith. Work hard. Love our neighbor. Repent. Thanks, -Smac 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted February 5, 2016 Author Posted February 5, 2016 47 minutes ago, smac97 said: My thoughts: 1. The Latter-day Saints need to be doing a better job at missionary work, retention and fellowshipping. 2. The leaven/salt metaphors in the Scriptures, together with more specific ones (such as Matthew 7:14 ("Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it") and 1 Nephi 14:12 ("And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters...")) lead me to think that the Plan has always anticipated small numbers. 3. The Church has a lot of strong opposition. Some won't joint because of this opposition. Some won't stay because of this opposition. 4. The Plan includes some grand activities to take place during the Millennium which, I think, mitigate concerns about "very very very few that find the truth": We just need to stay the course. Have faith. Work hard. Repent. Rinse, lather, repeat. Thanks, -Smac That gives me hope. None of my non member friends are interested in the church at all, and they're my closest friends, but I hope then that they will find a way to accept and believe in the millennium because I want them to be happy. Just like I've done a lot of family history work in the temple and I have faith that all the names I've done have accepted the work.
Calm Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 4 hours ago, smac97 said: We just need to stay the course. Have faith. Work hard. Repent. Rinse, lather, repeat. Thanks, -Smac My version: Love God. Have faith. Love family. Work hard. Love others. Repent. And have some fun while enduring. Rinse, lather, repeat
Alan Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 12 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: 15 million out of over 7 billion people is not even a drop in the hat, while there's over a billion muslims and other religions. Shouldn't the one true religion be much larger since we're in the eleventh hour, or is it really true that there will be very very very few that find the truth in this life? I don't think there are a billion Muslims yet. But you're right, the number of LDS isn't high, and the number of active LDS is even lower. Not only that, but the baptism/conversion rate is falling despite having many more missionaries in the field. It's like we're having to run faster to stand still. Over the past few years the average convert baptism numbers have hovered around 250,000pa. That should equate to around 10 new stakes a year, but that isn't happening. My take on this is that we're not baptizing as many as we should be and we're not retaining those we do because we don't teach the people with enough emphasis on the restoration. It's all about Christ and his atonement etc. There is nothing wrong with this on the face of it, but when we consider that this is the same message as other churches teach but they don't require 10% tithing, no tea, coffee, alcohol etc, why would anyone choose our church? They might come to a munch & mingle and think the people are nice etc, but even if they join the church the realities soon kick in and they leave. We have people joining the church here who know very little about Joseph Smith or the BoM, hardly anything about the plan of salvation etc, They find all this stuff out later. Personally, I think Bishops and Branch Presidents should interview all prospective baptismal candidates in order for the ordinance to go ahead. At the moment the candidate is interviewed by the District Leader (who has targets for his district/zone etc). This results in people who are clearly not ready for baptism being baptized and then "dumped" on the local ward. In my view this simply has to stop.
thesometimesaint Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 2 hours ago, Alan said: I don't think there are a billion Muslims yet. But you're right, the number of LDS isn't high, and the number of active LDS is even lower. Not only that, but the baptism/conversion rate is falling despite having many more missionaries in the field. It's like we're having to run faster to stand still. Over the past few years the average convert baptism numbers have hovered around 250,000pa. That should equate to around 10 new stakes a year, but that isn't happening. My take on this is that we're not baptizing as many as we should be and we're not retaining those we do because we don't teach the people with enough emphasis on the restoration. It's all about Christ and his atonement etc. There is nothing wrong with this on the face of it, but when we consider that this is the same message as other churches teach but they don't require 10% tithing, no tea, coffee, alcohol etc, why would anyone choose our church? They might come to a munch & mingle and think the people are nice etc, but even if they join the church the realities soon kick in and they leave. We have people joining the church here who know very little about Joseph Smith or the BoM, hardly anything about the plan of salvation etc, They find all this stuff out later. Personally, I think Bishops and Branch Presidents should interview all prospective baptismal candidates in order for the ordinance to go ahead. At the moment the candidate is interviewed by the District Leader (who has targets for his district/zone etc). This results in people who are clearly not ready for baptism being baptized and then "dumped" on the local ward. In my view this simply has to stop. If it was just about bodies in the doors we could just become like any other Protestant denomination.
will227457 Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 Our church is barely 185 years old the catholic church if you are to believe their line of authority has had an unbroken chain of leadership for over 2000 years. So yeah we are small, give us a 1000 years or so to catch up. 15 million Mormons. 1.25 BILLION Catholics we might need a few more years.
will227457 Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 13 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Well a problem is so many are resigning right now too. I would like to see some actual stats on that. I hear about it on the ol' interweb thingy, but haven't actually seen it in person
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