Honest Question: How do you Interpret Ether 13:2?

[Johnnie Cake]

2 For behold, they rejected all the words of Ether; for he truly told them of all things, from the beginning of man; and that after the waters had receded from off the face of this land it became a choice land above all other lands, a chosen land of the Lord; wherefore the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof;

I would really like to understand

[CV75]

2 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

2 For behold, they rejected all the words of Ether; for he truly told them of all things, from the beginning of man; and that after the waters had receded from off the face of this land it became a choice land above all other lands, a chosen land of the Lord; wherefore the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof;

I would really like to understand

Which part is hard to understand? There are so many things said in such a short verse.

[JLHPROF]

42 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

2 For behold, they rejected all the words of Ether; for he truly told them of all things, from the beginning of man; and that after the waters had receded from off the face of this land it became a choice land above all other lands, a chosen land of the Lord; wherefore the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof;

I would really like to understand

What's hard to understand?
Ether taught the people the creation.
He taught the people that after the flood, when the waters receded from covering the American continent (yes, a global flood), that this land was considered the chosen land.

Seems pretty simple to me.

Edited February 3, 2016 by JLHPROF

[Kevin Christensen]

But are these waters (in Ether 13:2) from the Noah flood or from the creation? (see Genesis 1:7; Moses 2:6-10; Abraham 4:9). Ether is ambiguous. Nowhere does Ether describe the animals on the Jaredite barges as necessary for repopulating an uninhabited world.

(A tidbit from my 1990 review of Vogel.)

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

[Johnnie Cake]

1 hour ago, Johnnie Cake said:

2 For behold, they rejected all the words of Ether; for he truly told them of all things, from the beginning of man; and that after the waters had receded from off the face of this land it became a choice land above all other lands, a chosen land of the Lord; wherefore the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof;

I would really like to understand

These two areas marked in bold are parts of this verse that I am particularly interested in getting the illustrious members of this auspicious boards insights on.  They seem pretty straight forward to me in what they are saying...but I know that I hold a minority opinion on this board...so again I would appreciate how an internet Mormon interprets this verse.

[Johnnie Cake]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

What's hard to understand?
Ether taught the people the creation.
He taught the people that after the flood, when the waters receded from covering the American continent (yes, a global flood), that this land was considered the chosen land.

Seems pretty simple to me.

You hold to a traditional universal flood worldview.  I'm going to guess that you too would be a minority on this board

[The Nehor]

I conclude that during the flood it was very wet there.

[halconero]

1 hour ago, Kevin Christensen said:

But are these waters (in Ether 13:2) from the Noah flood or from the creation? (see Genesis 1:7; Moses 2:6-10; Abraham 4:9). Ether is ambiguous. Nowhere does Ether describe the animals on the Jaredite barges as necessary for repopulating an uninhabited world.

(A tidbit from my 1990 review of Vogel.)

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

Interesting point that I had not yet considered.

[JAHS]

I think most assume he is talking about after the flood of Noah. Receding sounds more like what happened to the flood waters. In Genesis God gathered the waters together. 

The purpose of the flood was to cleanse the earth of wickedness and then after it was clean it could be "a choice land above all other lands, a chosen land of the Lord;"

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, Johnnie Cake said:

You hold to a traditional universal flood worldview.  I'm going to guess that you too would be a minority on this board

I'm a minority everywhere I express my opinions.
 

[Hamba Tuhan]

3 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

I would really like to understand

Honest question (which feels unnecessary for me to write since I'm not in the habit of asking dishonest questions): what are you getting on about? I genuinely have no idea.

[PeterPear]

2 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

These two areas marked in bold are parts of this verse that I am particularly interested in getting the illustrious members of this auspicious boards insights on.  They seem pretty straight forward to me in what they are saying...but I know that I hold a minority opinion on this board...so again I would appreciate how an internet Mormon interprets this verse.

After Noah's flood; since Jared, his brother their families and friends came out from the tower when the Lord confounded the languages. 

Tell us you couldn't figure that out.

[The Nehor]

59 minutes ago, JAHS said:

I think most assume he is talking about after the flood of Noah. Receding sounds more like what happened to the flood waters. In Genesis God gathered the waters together. 

The purpose of the flood was to cleanse the earth of wickedness and then after it was clean it could be "a choice land above all other lands, a chosen land of the Lord;"

Receding water also would have happened as when God gathered the waters it almost certainly means land started popping up.

The creation accounts in Genesis, Moses, and Abraham make some sense if the person observing was watching from the earth. You start with an empty earth covered by a hot and hard to see through atmosphere where you could tell the difference between day and night but it would be hard to see the sun or moon. The earth cools and surface water appears (1st and 2nd days). Then shifts cause more and more dry land to appear and changes in atmospheric gasses allow non-microscopic life to start forming. You get fungi and plants (3rd day). The atmosphere becomes more transparent and you you can see the sun, moon, and stars clearly (4th day). Sea life grows larger with increased energy from sun (5th day). Changes also give us the ozone layer and other protection which allows land-based creatures to appear and survive (6th day).

Undoubtedly it would appear differently if we were watching from above the earth or watching the solar system form.

I still do not entirely understand why God thought this was important enough for us to need three verions (four if you count the JST I suppose).

[PeterPear]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Receding water also would have happened as when God gathered the waters it almost certainly means land started popping up.

The creation accounts in Genesis, Moses, and Abraham make some sense if the person observing was watching from the earth. You start with an empty earth covered by a hot and hard to see through atmosphere where you could tell the difference between day and night but it would be hard to see the sun or moon. The earth cools and surface water appears (1st and 2nd days). Then shifts cause more and more dry land to appear and changes in atmospheric gasses allow non-microscopic life to start forming. You get fungi and plants (3rd day). The atmosphere becomes more transparent and you you can see the sun, moon, and stars clearly (4th day). Sea life grows larger with increased energy from sun (5th day). Changes also give us the ozone layer and other protection which allows land-based creatures to appear and survive (6th day).

Undoubtedly it would appear differently if we were watching from above the earth or watching the solar system form.

I still do not entirely understand why God thought this was important enough for us to need three verions (four if you count the JST I suppose).

Because the  versions innclude the Spiritual Creation and the Physical Creation of the Earth.

You know, like you were a Spirit before you were created here on Earth in your mother's womb.

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, PeterPear said:

Because the  versions innclude the Spiritual Creation and the Physical Creation of the Earth.

You know, like you were a Spirit before you were created here on Earth in your mother's womb.

I have heard that but am not convinced.

[PeterPear]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I have heard that but am not convinced.

Moses 3

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in

 7 And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, PeterPear said:

Moses 3

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in

 7 And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.

Still not convinced. The passage is ambiguous to me as to whether the rest of the creation story is the spirit or natural creation. This just says that spiritual creation was before natural creation which I know.

[PeterPear]

8 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Still not convinced. The passage is ambiguous to me as to whether the rest of the creation story is the spirit or natural creation. This just says that spiritual creation was before natural creation which I know.

I don't what to say. It's quite clear to me that it states all things were first created spiritually. Search LDS.org for articles by Church leaders expounding it.

[BlueDreams]

I honestly kinda read them as Kevin mentioned, as the creation first....and then thought about the flood right after that. It could be either and I haven't given it much thought to be honest.

If it is read as creation the second part could be a reiteration about this probation being a place to learn/prepare to meet god. On top of that, the land where the righteous dwell is often described as blessed in someway (footstool, promised land, filled with bounty, etc). 

With luv,

BD

 

[cinepro]

5 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

2 For behold, they rejected all the words of Ether; for he truly told them of all things, from the beginning of man; and that after the waters had receded from off the face of this land it became a choice land above all other lands, a chosen land of the Lord; wherefore the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof;

I would really like to understand

Every time that verse has been addressed in any LDS publication that I'm aware of, it is referring to Noah's flood.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1976/06/a-promised-land?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1998/01/the-flood-and-the-tower-of-babel?lang=eng

 

 

[rongo]

4 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

You hold to a traditional universal flood worldview.  I'm going to guess that you too would be a minority on this board

Pencil me in with that minority! I believe in a universal flood --- and that Noah really existed.

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

...............................................................

The creation accounts in Genesis, Moses, and Abraham........................................................................

I still do not entirely understand why God thought this was important enough for us to need three verions (four if you count the JST I suppose).

It isn't only those four, but a multitude of other creation accounts (and flood accounts) worldwide.  It isn't so much that God thought we needed them as that the editors and redactors who passed them on to us come from different times and places, and the accounts differ among themselves quite a bit too.  If God wants us to have anything, it is probably a good sense of perspective.  People get stuck on the details and don't understand the big picture.  That is the biggest problem God has to deal with.

[Robert F. Smith]

6 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

2 For behold, they rejected all the words of Ether; for he truly told them of all things, from the beginning of man; and that after the waters had receded from off the face of this land it became a choice land above all other lands, a chosen land of the Lord; wherefore the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof;

I would really like to understand

Probably the best place to start is with understanding that the world for "land" here can mean local, regional, or global, all based on how you wish to interpret it.  Thus, we need additional information before reaching any sort of conclusion.

[JLHPROF]

6 minutes ago, rongo said:

Pencil me in with that minority! I believe in a universal flood --- and that Noah really existed.

If he didn't the Lord lied in scripture when referring to him as a real person (D&C 84:14-15), not to mention those who saw him in vision or in person.  (D&C 138:41, Daniel 9:21, Luke 1:26).

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

The creation accounts in Genesis, Moses, and Abraham make some sense if the person observing was watching from the earth.

Undoubtedly it would appear differently if we were watching from above the earth or watching the solar system form.

I still do not entirely understand why God thought this was important enough for us to need three verions (four if you count the JST I suppose).

 

18 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

It isn't only those four, but a multitude of other creation accounts (and flood accounts) worldwide.  It isn't so much that God thought we needed them as that the editors and redactors who passed them on to us come from different times and places, and the accounts differ among themselves quite a bit too.

Yeah, the simple truth is these creation accounts aren't actually records of the history of the creation, nor are they supposed to be.

They are records of the endowments of the recorder.  Moses/Genesis is a record of the endowment of Moses.  Abraham's creation account is the endowment of Abraham.
They didn't sit down and write down the history that had been passed down.  They recorded the endowment they received from the Lord.
And I'm not convinced they are the only ones - for example I fully suspect Joseph Smith received a similar endowment resulting in the establishment of our current temple narrative.

• Moses 1:1 The words of God, which he spake unto Moses at a time when Moses was caught up into an exceedingly high mountain,
  2 And he saw God face to face, and he talked with him, and the glory of God was upon Moses; therefore Moses could endure his presence.

• Abraham 3:11 Thus I, Abraham, talked with the Lord, face to face, as one man talketh with another; and he told me of the works which his hands had made;
  12 And he said unto me: My son, my son (and his hand was stretched out), behold I will show you all these. And he put his hand upon mine eyes, and I saw those things which his hands had made, which were many; and they multiplied before mine eyes, and I could not see the end thereof.