Zakuska Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) Intresting enough... the Cross as a symbol is actually a pagan fertility symbol. Quote Writers during the 19th century indicating a pagan origin of the cross included Henry Dana Ward,[30] Mourant Brock,[31] and John Denham Parsons.[32] David Williams, writing of medieval images of monsters, says: "The disembodied phallus is also formed into a cross, which, before it became for Christianity the symbol of salvation, was a pagan symbol of fertility."[33] The study, Gods, Heroes & Kings: The Battle for Mythic Britain states: "Before the fourth century CE, the cross was not widely embraced as a sign of Christianity, symbolizing as it did the gallows of a criminal."[34] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_cross Remenicent of the Ashara poles. Who says paganism and satanic worship hasn't ended? Edited January 30, 2016 by Zakuska
Ahab Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 3 hours ago, Bobbieaware said: In reality, I might be considered an extremist when it comes to how critically important it is to have correct belief. The reason I say this is because I believe a critical analysis of D&C 76 and D&C 138 reveals entry into even the telestial kingdom can only be obtained by a sincere confession of faith that Jesus Christ is the Savior and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true and living church of Christ on the earth. I believe there is no salvation outside of belief in the true Christ, and the true Christ is the God who stands at the head of the Church of Jesus Christ of LAtter-day Saints. Okay, thank you, it's good for me to know you that you consider correct beliefs to be very important, but I think you're setting the bar a little too high for people who will attain only a telestial level of glory/intelligence by the time they get their final judgment test results. I do believe they will all believe Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, if anyone were to ever ask them if they have ever heard of his name, but I don't think they will necessarily know which Church or group of people are his. Think of all the people in all of the other churches all over the world, including those who would say they aren't particularly religious and don't associate themselves as members of any particular church or religion. The telestial level of glory/intelligence is a very low level of glory/intelligence, for the not so bright bulbs in this world. Plus, they are also the most mean-spirited and uncharitable of people who have ever lived on this planet and did not have enough good sense to realize that they should have been much better people.
Bobbieaware Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 17 minutes ago, Ahab said: Okay, thank you, it's good for me to know you that you consider correct beliefs to be very important, but I think you're setting the bar a little too high for people who will attain only a telestial level of glory/intelligence by the time they get their final judgment test results. I do believe they will all believe Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, if anyone were to ever ask them if they have ever heard of his name, but I don't think they will necessarily know which Church or group of people are his. Think of all the people in all of the other churches all over the world, including those who would say they aren't particularly religious and don't associate themselves as members of any particular church or religion. The telestial level of glory/intelligence is a very low level of glory/intelligence, for the not so bright bulbs in this world. Plus, they are also the most mean-spirited and uncharitable of people who have ever lived on this planet and did not have enough good sense to realize that they should have been much better people. The great missionary work that goes on in the spirit world will clear up any confused notions any might have as to whom and what the Savior really is .They may be confused here in the flesh, but there won't be any excuses for them to remain in confusion after having the truth so powerfully presented to them again and again in the realm of the departed dead. Do you actually think the LDS missionaries who are sent to help liberate the souls in the spirit prison (they're the only missionaries allowed to go there) aren't going to bother to mention the fact that their priesthood authority and divine commission to preach the Gospel of Christ isn't at all connected to the Restoraton of the Gospel and the Lord's priesthood authority given to Joseph Smith and his legal successors? Presenting a generic or ecumenical Christ is not how the Gospel is taught here, and according to the prophet Joseph F Smith (see D&C138) that's not how the the Gospel is taught to the spirits in the spirit world..
Zakuska Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) Savedwheat keeps mix up what God said with what Satan said... What did God say after Adam and Eve ate the fruit? Gen 3:22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become like one of us, to know good and evil: I think savewheat is worshiping the wrong God. Quote Satan said you can become like God by eating the forbidden fruit. Edited January 30, 2016 by Zakuska
JAHS Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 9 hours ago, Jim Stiles said: I have been led to believe that the pentagrams in the Nauvoo Temple come from Masonic design and not some specifically religious (or irreligious) design. Am I wrong? The pentagrams were called morning stars, which represent all of God's spirit children who were with Him in the pre-existence before He created the earth. (D&C 128:23) "Let the mountains shout for joy, and all ye valleys cry aloud; and all ye seas and dry lands tell the wonders of your Eternal King! And ye rivers, and brooks, and rills, flow down with gladness. Let the woods and all the trees of the field praise the Lord; and ye solid rocks weep for joy! And let the sun, moon, and the morning stars sing together, and let all the sons of God shout for joy! "
Calm Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 5 hours ago, busybee said: You're painting with your broad brush again!!!! You don't even know everything that Mormons say. In fact, I very much doubt that you have met and conversed with any Mormons other than those you have encountered here. No, he has confronted LDS elsewhere, but with the same methods or worse from what I've seen.
Calm Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 10 hours ago, Jim Stiles said: I have been led to believe that the pentagrams in the Nauvoo Temple come from Masonic design and not some specifically religious (or irreligious) design. Am I wrong? Joseph Smith stated, iirc (if you are interested I will try and find a quote) that he saw the temple in a vision and it was constructed on that basis. He was also at that time familiar with some Masonic rituals. There were likely also other possible sources of the various decorations on the temple, so I suspect you can find all sorts of opinions out there that can't be verified one way or the other.
Calm Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 The quote is here along with other info: http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_temples/Inverted_Stars_on_LDS_Temples
Calm Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 This appears to be a very good page for a short description of the temple from the LDS POV, as well as architectural design. Could have used a few more references for claims, but likely assumes those are already well known to audience (celestial observatory for example). http://users.marshall.edu/~brown/nauvoo/symbols.html
Calm Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 For anyone who is very interested in the subject, I particularly like Symbols in Stone by the late Matthew Brown (great guy, still cry when I think of his loss). https://deseretbook.com/p/symbols-stone-symbolism-early-temples-restoration-matthew-b-brown-5329?variant_id=105204-hardcover 1
MorningStar Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 Oh brother! You think we're going to Hell because we believe The Bible when it says we will be joint heirs with Christ?
Ahab Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 3 hours ago, Bobbieaware said: The great missionary work that goes on in the spirit world will clear up any confused notions any might have as to whom and what the Savior really is .They may be confused here in the flesh, but there won't be any excuses for them to remain in confusion after having the truth so powerfully presented to them again and again in the realm of the departed dead. Do you actually think the LDS missionaries who are sent to help liberate the souls in the spirit prison (they're the only missionaries allowed to go there) aren't going to bother to mention the fact that their priesthood authority and divine commission to preach the Gospel of Christ isn't at all connected to the Restoraton of the Gospel and the Lord's priesthood authority given to Joseph Smith and his legal successors? Presenting a generic or ecumenical Christ is not how the Gospel is taught here, and according to the prophet Joseph F Smith (see D&C138) that's not how the the Gospel is taught to the spirits in the spirit world.. I guess we'll see but I don't think things will be any different in the spirit world than they are here. Everybody will still have the same ideas they had here and everyone there will be free to continue to share their ideas and beliefs with others who are willing to listen to them. I think the only ones who are going to be surprised by anything are the ones who thought there wouldn't be anything after death, or the ones who hadn't ever heard about something they will hear there for the very first time. But for those there that had already heard about "Mormonism" it will just sound like more of the same old story to them and I sincerely doubt they will even realize that their spirit is in prison. It's not like there are going to be jail cells with bars on their doors or something like that.
Zakuska Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) More Christian pentagram usage from all over the World to the present day. So if so many Christians use the symbol on their buildings... why is it only Satanic when mormons use it on 3 different buildings? Edited January 30, 2016 by Zakuska
Zakuska Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 From what I'm seeing... you're 100 times more likely to encounter a satanic pentagram on a christian building then you are on a mormon edefice.
Bobbieaware Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 26 minutes ago, Ahab said: I guess we'll see but I don't think things will be any different in the spirit world than they are here. Everybody will still have the same ideas they had here and everyone there will be free to continue to share their ideas and beliefs with others who are willing to listen to them. I think the only ones who are going to be surprised by anything are the ones who thought there wouldn't be anything after death, or the ones who hadn't ever heard about something they will hear there for the very first time. But for those there that had already heard about "Mormonism" it will just sound like more of the same old story to them and I sincerely doubt they will even realize that their spirit is in prison. It's not like there are going to be jail cells with bars on their doors or something like that. Read D&C 138 with no preconceived ideas, as if your reading it for the first time, and really stop to ponder each verse as you as you read -- then return and report.
busybee Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 3 hours ago, Calm said: No, he has confronted LDS elsewhere, but with the same methods or worse from what I've seen. Definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results each time..
Avatar4321 Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 13 hours ago, Zakuska said: Savedwheat keeps mix up what God said with what Satan said... What did God say after Adam and Eve ate the fruit? Gen 3:22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become like one of us, to know good and evil: I think savewheat is worshiping the wrong God. It seems to be a frequent misunderstanding. Which is strange as the Lord is very clear that man became more like God by knowing good and evil. I don't really get it. But I suspect that I may simply see it as obvious because of the influence of the Spirit and without that influence it may not be as obvious.
Avatar4321 Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 10 hours ago, Calm said: Savedwheat has been banned permanently, btw. Has he? His profile still just says limited.
Calm Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 2 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said: Has he? His profile still just says limited. From the top of page 11: 1
Ahab Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 16 hours ago, Bobbieaware said: Read D&C 138 with no preconceived ideas, as if your reading it for the first time, and really stop to ponder each verse as you as you read -- then return and report. Okay. Good timing. I didn't catch part of the vision before that says even the spirits of those who haven't been born as mortals yet will also be there among the righteous, and I also appreciated more fully how Adam was called by Joseph F. Smith the "father of all", and I also got a little more out of the part where he said the messengers would be talking about how our Savior had come among the righteous and commissioned them to share the gospel, but I still believe the rebellious and unrepentant won't necessarily know any more about the gospel than they heard while they were mortal, unless they are hearing something about the gospel for the first time there. Think of all the people who are ambivalent or antagonistic about what they have already heard and continue to hear from us "Mormons" in these latter days and still they do not accept what we teach them It's just going to seem like more of the same to them then even when we are going from where we will be to go among them to share the gospel with them, again, and again, continuing to do what we mortal Mormons are doing right now in this world, while still most people continue to reject what we tell them. With those with only a telestial level of glory/intelligence being those who rejected or rebelled against what we taught them the longest.
flameburns623 Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 On 1/24/2016 at 2:15 AM, halconero said: So where does Jesus say there it's okay to take judgement to yourself? King James BibleDo ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 1 Corinthians 6:2
JLHPROF Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 1 hour ago, flameburns623 said: King James BibleDo ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 1 Corinthians 6:2 I've posted before all the scriptural statements and statements of the prophets and apostles concerning who will be judged. We will have many judges before we ever reach Christ and receive our eternal destiny. Kind of like we have to have a Bishop's interview before we get one with the Stake President.
USU78 Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 On 1/30/2016 at 2:39 PM, Zakuska said: More Christian pentagram usage from all over the World to the present day. So if so many Christians use the symbol on their buildings... why is it only Satanic when mormons use it on 3 different buildings? Wait a minute ... what's that Mogen Dovid doing on that clock tower?
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