Repentance - not taking the sacrament

[sjdawg]

I have a question about the repentance process and sacrament in the LDS church.   This is something I have wondered for a long time but never researched.

Sometimes when a member confesses a sin to a Bishop they are instructed not to take the sacrament for a period of time.    My understanding is that the sacrament is representative of the repentance process and renewing your commitment to following Christ.   Wouldn't someone who is sincerely repenting of sin need the sacrament process more at that time and not less?   Is there are doctrinal basis for withholding the sacrament or is this more of a cultural occurrence?  Do other religions follow the same logic? 

[The Nehor]

The sacrament is the renewal of covenants contingent on your repentance. Some times it is best to not renew those covenants until you have spent the time repenting. I know I have voluntarily not taken it when I felt I had not repented of a sin that week.

[Bobbieaware]

7 minutes ago, sjdawg said:

I have a question about the repentance process and sacrament in the LDS church.   This is something I have wondered for a long time but never researched.

Sometimes when a member confesses a sin to a Bishop they are instructed not to take the sacrament for a period of time.    My understanding is that the sacrament is representative of the repentance process and renewing your commitment to following Christ.   Wouldn't someone who is sincerely repenting of sin need the sacrament process more at that time and not less?   Is there are doctrinal basis for withholding the sacrament or is this more of a cultural occurrence?  Do other religions follow the same logic? 

The Savior answers your question in 3 Nephite 18

 27 Behold verily, verily, I say unto you, I give unto you another commandment, and then I must go unto my Father that I may fulfil other commandments which he hath given me.

 28 And now behold, this is the commandment which I give unto you, that ye shall not suffer any one knowingly to partake of my flesh and blood unworthily, when ye shall minister it;

 29 For whoso eateth and drinketh my flesh and bloodunworthily eateth and drinketh damnation to his soul; therefore if ye know that a man is unworthy to eat and drink of my flesh and blood ye shall forbid him.

 30 Nevertheless, ye shall not cast him out from among you, but ye shall minister unto him and shall pray for him unto the Father, in my name; and if it so be that he repenteth and is baptized in my name, then shall ye receive him, and shall minister unto him of my flesh and blood.

 31 But if he repent not he shall not be numbered among my people, that he may not destroy my people, for behold I know my sheep, and they are numbered.

 32 Nevertheless, ye shall not cast him out of your synagogues, or your places of worship, for unto such shall ye continue to minister; for ye know not but what they will return and repent, and come unto me with full purpose of heart, and I shall heal them; and ye shall be the means of bringing salvation unto them. (3 Nephi 13)

 

[sjdawg]

so you have to be worthy to repent?    What sins keep you sufficiently worthy and what sins render you too dirty to partake?

I could understand forbidding the sacrament from someone who isn't trying to repent but if they are sincerely working to overcome a transgression it seems (to me) wrong to withhold it.

 

Edited January 7, 2016 by sjdawg

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, sjdawg said:

so you have to worthy to repent?

 

 

Nope, you have to repent to repent.

[Duncan]

I think you have to be willing to repent at least, I may slip up but am I willing at least to change? I think there are gradations of sins, mistakes and transgressions. I was taught too late in life but you only need to confess to the Bishop stuff that would affect your standing in the Church so i.e adultery, rape, fornication, illegal activity.Otherwise things can be dealt with on your own self reliance, you don't need the Bishop to see a professional if that is what you need help with

[Bobbieaware]

17 minutes ago, sjdawg said:

so you have to be worthy to repent?    What sins keep you sufficiently worthy and what sins render you too dirty to partake?

I could understand forbidding the sacrament from someone who isn't trying to repent but if they are sincerely working to overcome a transgression it seems (to me) wrong to withhold it.

 

It's merely a probationary period of time to see if the penitent member can stay away from being a repeat offender of a serious sim for a given period of time before the full privileges of membership are restored. Pure common sense. 

Edited January 7, 2016 by Bobbieaware

[sjdawg]

23 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The sacrament is the renewal of covenants contingent on your repentance. Some times it is best to not renew those covenants until you have spent the time repenting. I know I have voluntarily not taken it when I felt I had not repented of a sin that week.

I can see voluntarily withdrawing if you don't feel like you are in the correct frame of mind.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I've voluntarily withdrawn from taking the sacrament before for repentance purposes, but it's embarrassing if you think someone sees you rejecting the tray.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, sjdawg said:

I can see voluntarily withdrawing if you don't feel like you are in the correct frame of mind.

It was not just frame of mind. It was more a realization that I had not repented or was being willful in sin. It is kind of a frame of mind but also more.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

I've voluntarily withdrawn from taking the sacrament before for repentance purposes, but it's embarrassing if you think someone sees you rejecting the tray.

Let them. Anyone who would judge another for refusing the sacrament had probably just invalidated the value of their own sacrament taking so while you have held off they are eating and drinking damnation to their soul. And yes, thinking that is judging them but since you did not take the sacrament you have a whole week to repent of said judging.

[Avatar4321]

2 hours ago, sjdawg said:

so you have to be worthy to repent?    What sins keep you sufficiently worthy and what sins render you too dirty to partake?

I could understand forbidding the sacrament from someone who isn't trying to repent but if they are sincerely working to overcome a transgression it seems (to me) wrong to withhold it.

 

So because you need to be worthy to take the sacrament, you need to be worthy to repent??? That makes zero sense.

The only thing you need to do to repent is exercise faith in Christ and act on it. Repentance prepares you to make and keep covenants. In other words you make the covenants after you repent, not to repent.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Avatar4321

[sjdawg]

does the catholic church (or any other church) do the same thing?   I'm just curious.  It doesn't make either way right or wrong.

[Storm Rider]

4 hours ago, sjdawg said:

so you have to be worthy to repent?    What sins keep you sufficiently worthy and what sins render you too dirty to partake?

I could understand forbidding the sacrament from someone who isn't trying to repent but if they are sincerely working to overcome a transgression it seems (to me) wrong to withhold it.

 

I don't think it is a concept of being worthy to repent, but rather a true commitment to repentance.  For example, let's say we sin and we feel guilty, but we really are not interested in forsaking the sin.  We think it might be nice to repent, but we actually really like the sin.  This attitude is what is being addressed.  Have we forsaken the sin?  Do we want to forsake the sin?  At times, this will take a period of time before we know the answer.  

If during this time I continued to partake of the Sacrament I would be eating and drinking damnation to my soul because I was really not interested in taking the name of the Savior upon me - my heart was committed to sin rather than to Christ.  

This is how I have understood it.  Does that help?

[sjdawg]

19 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

I don't think it is a concept of being worthy to repent, but rather a true commitment to repentance.  For example, let's say we sin and we feel guilty, but we really are not interested in forsaking the sin.  We think it might be nice to repent, but we actually really like the sin.  This attitude is what is being addressed.  Have we forsaken the sin?  Do we want to forsake the sin?  At times, this will take a period of time before we know the answer.  

If during this time I continued to partake of the Sacrament I would be eating and drinking damnation to my soul because I was really not interested in taking the name of the Savior upon me - my heart was committed to sin rather than to Christ.  

This is how I have understood it.  Does that help?

It does make some sense to me in that regard.  However, wouldn't someone who went and confessed a sin being showing at least some level of commitment to Christ.  Your thought process makes a lot of sense to me when self-regulated but loses a little impact (in my mind) when imposes by someone else.   It is just something that I have wondered about.    Not a big deal to me either way.  It was just an item of curiosity.

 

[Storm Rider]

34 minutes ago, sjdawg said:

It does make some sense to me in that regard.  However, wouldn't someone who went and confessed a sin being showing at least some level of commitment to Christ.  Your thought process makes a lot of sense to me when self-regulated but loses a little impact (in my mind) when imposes by someone else.   It is just something that I have wondered about.    Not a big deal to me either way.  It was just an item of curiosity.

 

I cannot address the actions of a bishop or any other authority.  They sit as a judge in Israel and have a standard that they must meet and know that they are doing their best to lead each member to a closer relationship with our Heavenly Father.  

But for us, in our own minds, I know that there have been times in my life when I was not serious about forsaking sin.  I was an active member, but I enjoyed doing some things that are not in keeping for a disciple of Christ.  These need to be sins one perceives as serious, but the more common:  unbridled tongue, uncontrolled anger, etc.  If I don't feel sorry about it then I am not in a repentant position.  

For most times, I recommend that when in doubt then partake of the Sacrament.  If I am willing to take upon me the name of Christ then I feel it is appropriate.  We draw the line for ourselves and must know our own heart.  Are we serious about following Christ or have we allowed ourselves to fall into a complacent attitude about following him?  

[CV75]

7 hours ago, sjdawg said:

I have a question about the repentance process and sacrament in the LDS church.   This is something I have wondered for a long time but never researched.

Sometimes when a member confesses a sin to a Bishop they are instructed not to take the sacrament for a period of time.    My understanding is that the sacrament is representative of the repentance process and renewing your commitment to following Christ.   Wouldn't someone who is sincerely repenting of sin need the sacrament process more at that time and not less?   Is there are doctrinal basis for withholding the sacrament or is this more of a cultural occurrence?  Do other religions follow the same logic? 

I think to have seriously sinned after previously having witnessed that he is willing to take upon himself the name of Christ, and always remember Him and keep His commandments and strive to always have his Spirit to be with them, it makes sense to pause before making the same witness again to give proper reflection. In a way, the sinner always has His Spirit to be with him, even if by proxy through his priesthood leader who makes this inspired determination in his behalf when he has proven unable. The sinner is responsibly recognizing the proper role of his bishop in this regard, and must rely on his inspiration until he is rehabilitated.

This is consistent with your observation that the sacrament as representative of the repentance process. Sometimes we need pastoral help with it. No one partakes of the sacrament without the bishop's presiding over the ordinance anyway; his role is always part of the process at some level.

I think the doctrinal basis is inherent in the words of prayer and in the delegation and exercise of priesthood keys to ministers for the blessing of the saints (administering spiritual things and holding the keys of all the spiritual blessings, which are "To have the privilege of receiving the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, to have the heavens opened unto them, to commune with the general assembly and church of the Firstborn, and to enjoy the communion and presence of God the Father, and Jesus the mediator of the new covenant," per D&C 107). The sacrament is part of these processes as well.

[bluebell]

8 hours ago, sjdawg said:

so you have to be worthy to repent?    What sins keep you sufficiently worthy and what sins render you too dirty to partake?

I could understand forbidding the sacrament from someone who isn't trying to repent but if they are sincerely working to overcome a transgression it seems (to me) wrong to withhold it.

 

Sinning is moving ourselves away from God. Very serious sins move us a long way away from Him. 

Repentance is the process of turning around and going back.  Traveling that distance back for serious sins takes time. It's a process not an event. 

Taking the sacrament is the act of renewing and being as clean again as we were after baptism. S person who is in the process of repentance is not yet ready to renew those covenants. They aren't in a place where they can be declared forgiven of their sins. They aren't "back" yet. 

The journey back is important and can't be skipped. It's like being treated for a serious physical disease. A person can't skip the treatment and just instantly be healed. The treatment is WHAT heals them. 

Taking the sacrament is what is supposed to happen when the treatment is done, not while it's happening. 

For most sins we can repent in a matter of moments. It is only with serious sin that repentance takes so long l, and so renewing covenants must be delayed to give us that time. 

[Maedros]

8 hours ago, sjdawg said:

so you have to be worthy to repent?    What sins keep you sufficiently worthy and what sins render you too dirty to partake?

I could understand forbidding the sacrament from someone who isn't trying to repent but if they are sincerely working to overcome a transgression it seems (to me) wrong to withhold it.

 

As far as I know, a Bishop will only instruct this for serious transgression or a repeated transgression; following the counsel of the Bishop is in itself a renewal of our covenants to submit to all things which Lord sees fit to inflict upon us and in such a case its best practice to trust in the office of Bishop and to obey his counsel until he rescinds the instruction. This is one of the tests of humility.

[rongo]

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Let them [see you not taking the sacrament]. Anyone who would judge another for refusing the sacrament had probably just invalidated the value of their own sacrament taking so while you have held off they are eating and drinking damnation to their soul. And yes, thinking that is judging them but since you did not take the sacrament you have a whole week to repent of said judging.

I have not taken the sacrament --- twice --- while a bishop and sitting on the stand. Not for major sins, but I didn't feel right and prepared (worthy). Once, I had had an argument with my wife, and while we had apologized to each other and made up, there was still a lingering effect and I felt that I should wait a week while I continued to repent.

I thought that this would be very public and obvious, sitting up front of everyone, but no one actually seemed to even notice. The reality is that "people noticing" is actually mostly in the mind of the person abstaining from the sacrament. On any given Sunday, there are at least a handful of people choosing not to take the sacrament or instructed not to, and nobody really notices. It's not even a big deal for the deacons passing it. 

[rongo]

To give my thoughts on your opening post question, sjdawg, taking the sacrament is an ordinance that renews our covenants, including the baptismal covenant. I did both a baptismal interview (8 year-old) and a temple recommend interview last night. Part of what we talked about in the baptismal interview is that we are not baptized every time we do something wrong. We repent and take the sacrament worthily. Like baptism, though, one has to meet worthiness requirements in order to partake of the ordinance. As has been pointed out, for most things, this is a matter of conscience and between the member and God. For more serious transgressions (things you would counsel with your priesthood leaders about), those who hold keys sometimes limit people's access to this ordinance as part of their repentance (preparing to once again be able to partake of it). This is no different from a baptismal candidate needing to meet requirements for baptism (and it's a renewal of the baptismal covenant). Many people really ponder about the final question on the temple recommend interview (Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the House of the Lord and participate in temple ordinances?), but absolute perfection is not required --- it's a "striving Saint" question.

I do think that people in general don't take the Book of Mormon instruction on not taking the sacrament unworthily seriously enough.

[will227457]

7 hours ago, sjdawg said:

does the catholic church (or any other church) do the same thing?   I'm just curious.  It doesn't make either way right or wrong.

Yes the Catholic church has requirements, a quick google search brought this up: To receive Communion worthily, you must be in a state of grace, have made a good confession since your last mortal sin, believe in transubstantiation, observe the Eucharistic fast, and, finally, not be under an ecclesiastical censure such as excommunication

[filovirus]

D&C 46: 4-5

 4 Ye are also commanded not to cast any one who belongeth to the church out of your sacrament meetings; nevertheless, if any have trespassed, let him not partake until he makes reconciliation.

 5 And again I say unto you, ye shall not cast any out of your sacrament meetings who are earnestly seeking the kingdom—I speak this concerning those who are not of the church.

Reconciliation is the key.

[bluebell]

I don't think a lot of people understand that true repentance is not just being sorry and wanting to be forgiven.  It's also about fixing whatever was broken that allowed us to sin in the first place.  That's one of the reasons that serious sins take a long to repent of-fixing what was wrong that allowed a person to stray so far can take a long time.

I have a friend who's husband cheated on her for a few years.  During this time, he served in a bishopric, held other various callings, used his priesthood to baptize and bless children, attended the temple fairly regularly, and most interestingly, prayed and read his scriptures every day.  He had immense guilt, but he still managed to live a double life.

He is in the repentance process right now and one of the things that his bishop is really working on with him is changing the part of him that allowed him to be active in the church (and very much believe it!) and still break such sacred covenants many many many times.  He is barely understanding it himself, but as the process continues, his clarity and understanding (and ability to feel godly sorrow for his sins and what he has done to his family) increases incrementally.  He still has a long road ahead of him, trying to fix what was broken, so that when he is again in full fellowship, he knows he will be able keep the promises he has made.  Then the wound that allowed the infection will be completely healed.  

There is no reason to start trying to keep those covenants while the wound is still open to contamination.

Edited January 7, 2016 by bluebell

[Jeanne]

While I was still active and participating, I never took the sacrament if there was any contention in my heart.  When I went to the Bishop later in a repentance process, he wanted me to take the sacrament.  At the time I still felt very unworthy,  Question:  Years ago, my Dad would go to the Temple with members of his ward for Temple Night.  Anyway, he said there was a lot of talking on the way in to SLC of gossip and ill will..how does this work for people who attend?  To get to the Temple and be bitter seems to be easier than taking the sacrament.