Prophecies From Modern Prophets

[Rivers]

I have some family members who now believe Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet and don't believe in any true prophets since him. They are asking for examples of fulfilled prophecies from LDS prophets from Brigham young to the present.

Can anybody think of good examples?

[JAHS]

The prophets prophesy every time they get up to speak in conference. Perhaps you mean the ability to predict or see into the future?

[Rivers]

The prophets prophesy every time they get up to speak in conference. Perhaps you mean the ability to predict or see into the future?

Yeah. Something like that.

I personally don't buy into the assumption that making future predictions is always part of the job of a prophet.

[JAHS]

Yeah. Something like that.

I personally don't buy into the assumption that making future predictions is always part of the job of a prophet.

Some years ago Elder Eyring came to our stake conference and during one of his talks he made a rather specific prophesy. He said, "I am supposed to be a prophet so  I prophesy that in the next year the baptisms in this stake are going to double."

 

I remember the worried look on the stake president's face when he heard this. His prophesy came with some counsel on how to do it.

Next year the baptisms in our stake doubled just like he sad they would. And I don't mean from 1 to 2. It was more like from 5 to 10. 

[pogi]

I have some family members who now believe Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet and don't believe in any true prophets since him. They are asking for examples of fulfilled prophecies from LDS prophets from Brigham young to the present.

Can anybody think of good examples?

 

So they believe in the restoration of the fullness of times, followed by another apostasy a couple years later?

Edited October 6, 2015 by pogi

[Duncan]

In the 1950's Pres. Oscar A. Kirkham of the 1st Council of the 70 came to our city to participate in a cornerstone ceremony for a chapel and he said that he could see a Temple built not far from here. Well, if the rumours are true of where the Temple is going to be built then he was bang on, it isn't that far from where that chapel is.

[iWriteStuff]

Out of curiosity, how was anyone to know that Isaiah was a true prophet when most of his predictions were brought to pass long after his death and some are STILL waiting for fulfillment?

 

And who is to say the only role of a prophet is to predict? I always thought it had something to do with speaking in the name of the Lord...

[bcuzbcuz]

The prophets prophesy every time they get up to speak in conference. Perhaps you mean the ability to predict or see into the future?

What nonsense! You're using a circular argument. "Because I call myself a prophet, everything I say is prophetic. My words are prophetic, therefore I am a prophet." 

[Gray]

The prophets prophesy every time they get up to speak in conference. Perhaps you mean the ability to predict or see into the future?

 

proph·e·sy

ˈpräfəˌsī/

verb

 

1. say that (a specified thing) will happen in the future.

[Rivers]

So they believe in the restoration of the fullness of times, followed by another apostasy a couple years later?

Yep

[JAHS]

 

proph·e·sy

ˈpräfəˌsī/

verb

 

1. say that (a specified thing) will happen in the future.

 

According to Websters that's the secondary definition of the word: Webster's

 

Insitive verb

1

:  to utter by or as if by divine inspiration

intransitive verb

1

:  to speak as if divinely inspired

2

:  to give instruction in religious matters :  preach

 

I do agree that when most people hear the word prophesy they are referring to making predictions. 

Edited October 6, 2015 by JAHS

[Ahab]

I have some family members who now believe Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet and don't believe in any true prophets since him. They are asking for examples of fulfilled prophecies from LDS prophets from Brigham young to the present.

Can anybody think of good examples?

Sounds like they just need to understand what it means to be a prophet.

I'd start with what John wrote in his book of 'Revelations' where he said the spirit of prophesy is the testimony of Christ, meaning that a prophet simply says what Christ says, with the testimony of a prophet being the same as the testimony of Christ.

That's the spirit or essence of what it means to be a prophet, so anytime anyone other than Christ says the same thing that Christ would say, that person is giving the testimony of Christ and is thus speaking as a prophet, or prophetess if that person is female. Anything good and true and in agreement with what Christ would say if he were the one speaking

After that sinks in then ask them go through anything they can read or hear that was spoken or written afte4 Joseph Smith died, to look for anything they think is the same thing Christ would say or write, looking more at the essence of the message than a person's particular way of speaking or writing.

They should be amazed at all they can find.

[Jude2]

 “The elements have not yet become angry as they shall become angry, and the sea heave beyond its bounds; and the earthquakes and the sinking of cities and the great destruction by plague and by famine and pestilence and all the rest of it will have to come first, and bloodshed, war, destruction.”  President Joseph Fielding Smith 1970

 

I’ve wondered about the phrase “and the sea heave beyond its bounds” are the seas really rising? 

[Gray]

 

According to Websters that's the secondary definition of the word: Webster's

 

Insitive verb

1

:  to utter by or as if by divine inspiration

intransitive verb

1

:  to speak as if divinely inspired

2

:  to give instruction in religious matters :  preach

 

I do agree that when most people hear the word prophesy they are referring to making predictions. 

 

 

Fair enough! But it also means to make predictions about the future, so prophesy is a serviceable word if that's what you mean (and I think that is the meaning most people have in mind when they hear the word)

[cinepro]

I have some family members who now believe Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet and don't believe in any true prophets since him. They are asking for examples of fulfilled prophecies from LDS prophets from Brigham young to the present.

Can anybody think of good examples?

 

I've got great news for your family members.  Not only were Brigham Young and co. "Prophets" who could make predictions about the future with some margin of error, but we all are.    Making predictions doesn't make someone a "Prophet", even if they come to pass.  Making predictions that don't come to pass doesn't make someone a "false Prophet"; it just means that the conditions for the prophecy weren't met, or we misunderstood them or...

 

The only value of a "Prophet" would be their ability to be inspired to make predictions that have the power to influence people to change their behavior or give us greater knowledge about spiritual things or future events.  While latter-day Prophets may have done some of the former, I would have to agree with your family if they wanted to argue there has been precious little of the latter.

Edited October 6, 2015 by cinepro

[Rivers]

proph·e·sy

ˈpräfəˌsī/

verb

• say that (a specified thing) will happen in the future.

Rev. 19:10 states that the "testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." So in that sense prophesying means to testify of Jesus Christ. And that is exactly what our prophets do. Edited October 6, 2015 by Rivers

[HappyJackWagon]

Fair enough! But it also means to make predictions about the future, so prophesy is a serviceable word if that's what you mean (and I think that is the meaning most people have in mind when they hear the word)

But if we take the watered down version of prophesy, then all is well.

Just don't expect too much.

[JAHS]

What nonsense! You're using a circular argument. "Because I call myself a prophet, everything I say is prophetic. My words are prophetic, therefore I am a prophet." 

 

DId I say that?  I didn't say that!  President Wilford Woodruff said of Brigham Young to a congregation:

 

"He is a prophet, I am a prophet, you are, and anybody is a prophet who has the testimony of Jesus Christ, for that is the spirit of prophecy" (Journal of Discourses 13:165)

[Traela]

Wilford Woodruff- the Wagon Box Prophecy. When the Snake River valley was a sagebrush-covered desert that froze every month of the year, he blessed it that the climate would be "moderated for your good." We now typically get three months without frost. He also prophesied lots of green fields, plus schools, churches, and temples. Yeah, the Rexburg temple was kind of a big deal- we finally got that last plural.

[JAHS]

President Lorenzo Snow made a prophecy of a sort when he propheseid that it would rain if the saints obeyed the law of tithing. They did what he said and they got the rain they needed.

[Storm Rider]

Rivers, the way that I have found my own way through this question is to gain a greater understanding of those who hold the Keys of the priesthood.  We have the offices of prophets, seers, and revelators and they each hold the Keys of the priesthood and of fulfilling the role of these offices when called upon by the Lord.  We have not had a seer since Joseph.  We have seldom added to the scriptural canon since the time of Joseph.  

 

Most of the latter days we have had men who have been stewards of the Keys of the priesthood, but have not been used in a fully functional sense of prophets, seers, and revelators.  In this context, I am talking about the type of revelations that are added to scripture, "Thus saith the Lord...." type of declarations.  I do believe that many of these men have functioned in the lesser capacity of their offices, but not in a greater sense.

 

What does that mean to me?  In some sense I believe that it has taken a long time for us to work with what we have been given while the Kingdom has been moving forward and temples have spread throughout the world and continues to do so.  There has been a need for this rather than additional scripture, etc.  We remain committed to future revelations and believe that it will happen, but the Lord has obviously been working on gaining a structure that can accommodate future growth.  

 

I have not attempted to be complete, but I have tried to summarize how I have worked through this type of a thought.  I focus on the the very great demand of holding the keys of the Priesthood and the preparatory work for the end times.

[Kevin Christensen]

Of course, there is this stuff.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Biblical_Keys_for_Discerning_True_and_False_Prophets

Which does not neglect this aspect of the issue:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Biblical_Keys_for_Discerning_True_and_False_Prophets/Seeing_the_truth

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

[MDalby]

 

Our predecessors have prophesied that temples will dot the landscape of North and South America, the isles of the Pacific, Europe, and elsewhere. If this redemptive work is to be done on the scale it must be, hundreds of temples will be needed

(President Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 247; June 6, 1980)

 

At the time President Benson gave this message, there were 19 temples operating worldwide.

 

Today we have 148 operating, 12 under construction and 13 temples announced.

Edited October 7, 2015 by MDalby

[MDalby]

 

 “The elements have not yet become angry as they shall become angry, and the sea heave beyond its bounds; and the earthquakes and the sinking of cities and the great destruction by plague and by famine and pestilence and all the rest of it will have to come first, and bloodshed, war, destruction.”  President Joseph Fielding Smith 1970

 

I’ve wondered about the phrase “and the sea heave beyond its bounds” are the seas really rising? 

 

 

 114 Nevertheless, let the bishop go unto the city of New York, also to the city of Albany, and also to the city of Boston, and warn the people of those cities with the sound of the gospel, with a loud voice, of the desolation and utter abolishment which await them if they do reject these things.

 115 For if they do reject these things the hour of their judgment is nigh, and their house shall be left unto them desolate.

(D&C 84:114-115)

 

I was thinking today of a time many years ago, when President Young and several brethren of the Twelve, were in Logan; it was a time when a railroad up to this region was not even dreamed of, the time when Brothers Ezra T. Benson and Peter Maughan presided here; when at a meeting President Young called upon me to talk to the people assembled. The night before, however, we had been met by a long line of children and young people, from three up to twenty years of age; they had come out to meet the prophet, and presented a fine sight. While talking to the people I felt led to speak to the children and young people; and I told them that I wanted them to remember the visit which the president was making them because the day would come when they were grown up, when they would talk to one another and say, that on such a day President Young and party visited us, and we were told then that we should see the day when a temple should be built in this place, from the top of which we would be able to survey the country around which would be occupied by ten thousand of our people; and you will say that this was told to us when brother Benson and Brother Maughan presided here.

(Wilford Woodruff, JD, 21:299)

 

While you stand in the towers of the Temple and your eyes survey this glorious valley filled with cities and villages, occupied by tens and thousands of Latter-day Saints, you will then call to mind this visitation of President Young and his company. You will say: That was in the days when Presidents Benson and Maughan presided over us; that was before New York was destroyed by an earthquake. It was before Boston was swept into the sea, by the sea heaving itself beyond its bounds; it was before Albany was destroyed by fire; yea at that time you will remember the scenes of this day. Treasure them up and forget them not. President Young followed and said: 'What Brother Woodruff has said is revelation and will be fulfilled'.

(Wilford Woodruff, Deseret News, Aug 1863)

 

Do you think there is calamity abroad now among the people? Not much. All we have yet heard and experienced is scarcely a preface to the sermon that is going to be preached. When the testimony of the Elders ceases to be given, and the Lord says to them, "Come home; I will now preach my own sermons to the nations of the earth," all you now know can scarcely be called a preface to the sermon that will be preached with fire and sword, tempests, earthquakes, hail, rain, thunders and lightnings, and fearful destruction. "What matters the destruction of a few railway cars? You will hear of magnificent cities, now idolized by the people, sinking in the earth, entombing the inhabitants. The sea will heave itself beyond its bounds, engulfing mighty cities. Famine will spread over the nations, and nation will rise up against nation, kingdom against kingdom, and states against states, in our own country and in foreign lands

(Brigham Young, JD 8:123)

[Alan]

I have some family members who now believe Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet and don't believe in any true prophets since him. They are asking for examples of fulfilled prophecies from LDS prophets from Brigham young to the present.

Can anybody think of good examples?

In my view your relatives have a point to a certain extent.

Joseph was no fallen prophet, but since his passing we haven't had a "prophet" as such in the Joseph Smith mould, and we were never supposed to.

Since his death the church has been under apostolic administration. I know Brigham re-established the first presidency model, but this was a bottom up re-organization in my view, rather than a top down one as with the original establishment of the first presidency at the time of Joseph.

A big clue for me is contained in the last two verses of Section 136 of the D&C. This is a revelation given through Brigham Young and is the last recorded and canonized first person "thus saith the Lord" type revelation in modern times.

D&C 136:41-42

Now, hearken, O ye people of my church; and ye elders listen together; you have received my kingdom.

Be diligent in keeping all my commandments, lest judgments come upon you, and your faith fail you, and your enemies triumph over you. So no more at present. Amen and Amen.

To me this is saying, "OK, the kingdom is now yours. You won't be receiving any more revelations of this kind for a while, you've got plenty to be getting on with." And just to illustrate the finality of this statement, we have a double "Amen" to finish.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Alan