Faith Transition Or Mid-Life Crisis Or Both?

[jkwilliams]

Good for you

 

I think everyone has to do what works best for them.  I found that I missed many aspects of attending church, so going back has been good (on my terms).  I'm lucky that I have a Bishop who knows me and supports me.

 

Good for you, too. If that's what works for you, that's what you should do. My participation amounts to occasionally attending sacrament meeting to keep my wife company. My bishop has always been kind and gracious to me, too.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

So, you're not a fan of Peter.

 

Absolutely a fan. He understood the meaning of his vision...

Acts 10:28(1)> And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

[mfbukowski]

I am in this weird paradox where I am more religiously theologically Conservative now, because I accept the Law (Torah), but socially- on some issues- I am leaning towards "live and let live, and let God sort it all out". Legislating morality in the context of a secular government is really not feasible. Our focus should be on changing hearts and minds through preaching not government fiat. Forced morality is no morality at all.

I get it. I am very liberal theologically but very conservative politically. The reason for both is my scepticism. If I don't even trust the historicity of the Bible, why should I trust some bureaucrat to make health decisions for me?

[jkwilliams]

 

Absolutely a fan. He understood the meaning of his vision...

Acts 10:28(1)> And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

 

Ah, so you see it as merely symbolic. Of course, the dietary laws were symbolic to begin with. I'm not going to get into an argument about this, as I don't care one way or the other. I just had never heard of any group associated with Mormonism that believed in keeping the Mosaic Law. My sister follows kosher law, but that's because she's Jewish. 

[hope_for_things]

This is great ALarson. I wish I could say the same. While I've been able to identify many things I don't believe and a few things I do, I haven't been able to replicate the sense of purpose and devotion I once felt. Even though my faith may have been placed in principles and practice I no longer believe, I don't feel the close connection with God like I once did. I haven't been able yet to find a meaningful way to tie my beliefs with an enlivening practice. I'm still very active in the LDS church and while some things still fit, many don't. This makes me think of the thread about taking sabatical from LDS church to experiement and search out something else.

 

HappyJackWagon, I’m pretty much right where you are at, lost interest politics, disillusioned by religion, still attending and actively participating, growing beards, on the first diet in my life and exercising more than I ever have before (I was in decent shape before, but now I’m really into healthy eating for the first time.  It’s all so similar.

 

But I haven’t gotten to where ALarson describes.  I admire his having a closer relationship with Jesus, but my journey hasn’t arrived there.  Maybe it will in time, I’m only a little over 2 years into this faith transition/mid life crisis, whatever you want to call it.  I’ve thought about the sabbatical idea too, and some days I want to pull the trigger.  What to do next, it’s a good question.  I don’t know, and I’m trying to take things slowly still, but it kind of feels like I’m not sure what the next steps are for me in life.  

[ALarson]

Good for you, too. If that's what works for you, that's what you should do. My participation amounts to occasionally attending sacrament meeting to keep my wife company. My bishop has always been kind and gracious to me, too.

Well, my current Bishop is awesome, but the one who was serving when I stopped attending for awhile wanted to hold a church court on me (for apostasy).  I think he was really afraid that others would follow me out who were having questions or doubts and he wanted to make an example out of me.  I'd never spoken out at church or even talked to any other ward members though, so he had no grounds to hold a church court (and the Stake President informed him of that).  I don't hold it against him though and we're actually pretty good friends now.

 

My current Bishop is a big part of why I came back and why I continue attending.  He's been a very positive influence in my life and for our ward.  

 

We'll be teaching the 5th Sunday lesson on the polygamy essay in a couple of weeks (well, I have opted out of actually teaching, but he's talked to me a lot about this lesson and is worried).  I was going to post a question that he asked me a couple of days ago (discuss polyandry or not discuss polyandry in the lesson), but I'm not sure if we're ready for another polygamy/polyandry discussion here .  

Edited August 20, 2015 by ALarson

[jkwilliams]

Well, my current Bishop is awesome, but the one who was serving when I stopped attending for awhile wanted to hold a church court on me (for apostasy).  I think he was really afraid that others would follow me out who were having questions or doubts and he wanted to make an example out of me.  I'd never spoken out at church or even talked to any other ward members though, so he had no grounds to hold a church court (and the Stake President informed him of that).  I don't hold it against him though and we're actually pretty good friends now.

 

My current Bishop is a big part of why I came back and why I continue attending.  He's been a very positive influence in my life and for our ward.  

 

We'll be teaching the 5th Sunday lesson on the polygamy essay in a couple of weeks (well, I have opted out of actually teaching, but he's talked to me a lot about this lesson and is worried).  I was going to post a question that he asked me a couple of days ago (discuss polyandry or not discuss polyandry in the lesson), but I'm not sure if we're ready for another polygamy/polyandry discussion here .  

 

My bishop in Utah thought the best way to get me to come back was to shame me in public, especially if my kids were around. That was the main reason I quit going altogether for about 8 months. Not because he offended me, but I didn't want to put myself or my family in that position every Sunday. My two bishops here in Virginia have been very understanding and kind. We have the missionaries over pretty often, and it's only been awkward once. I suppose if they wanted to, they could use my blog as reason to hold a disciplinary council, but it hasn't happened yet. I hope it doesn't come to that because that would really be hard on my family.

 

As for bringing up difficult stuff in church, I've only done that when incorrect information was being taught, and I felt like it needed to be corrected. I avoid that now by just not going to Sunday School and high priests.

Edited August 20, 2015 by jkwilliams

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Ah, so you see it as merely symbolic. Of course, the dietary laws were symbolic to begin with. I'm not going to get into an argument about this, as I don't care one way or the other. I just had never heard of any group associated with Mormonism that believed in keeping the Mosaic Law. My sister follows kosher law, but that's because she's Jewish. 

There are a growing number of Book of Mormon believers embracing "Hebrew Roots"- but since it is so much in it's infancy and they have so much of a tie to whatever Restoration denomination they come from with friends, relatives, etc... there has been no real push for cohesiveness or fellowshipping activities. I was allowed to host a Passover dinner at a Restoration Branch back in April, we had about 30 people show up. I am going to try to gather a group on the Temple Lot for Trumpets on Sept. 14th. for Shofar blowing and prayer, and then maybe a meal afterwards.

Rod of Iron Ministries in my sig. line is a ministry to Book of Mormon believers that I am slowly trying to build that would be a place of fellowship for Book of Mormon believers who accept Hebrew Roots. It is not intended to be a new church, but like a parachurch ministry, where those of similar inklings can fellowship.

[jkwilliams]

There are a growing number of Book of Mormon believers embracing "Hebrew Roots"- but since it is so much in it's infancy and they have so much of a tie to whatever Restoration denomination they come from with friends, relatives, etc... there has been no real push for cohesiveness or fellowshipping activities. I was allowed to host a Passover dinner at a Restoration Branch back in April, we had about 30 people show up. I am going to try to gather a group on the Temple Lot for Trumpets on Sept. 14th. for Shofar blowing and prayer, and then maybe a meal afterwards.

Rod of Iron Ministries in my sig. line is a ministry to Book of Mormon believers that I am slowly trying to build that would be a place of fellowship for Book of Mormon believers who accept Hebrew Roots. It is not intended to be a new church, but like a parachurch ministry, where those of similar inklings can fellowship.

 

I thought Joseph Smith specifically taught the Shakers that we no longer need to follow the dietary laws. I'd look it up, but that's what I remember.

[ttribe]

I've definitely been moving in and out of a mid-life crisis over the past few years.  My evidence?

 

First, in 2011, I bought an '07 BMW M5 (500HP V10):

 

 

A year later, due to increasing expenses to assist my mother, the substantial maintenance costs on this car resulted in me having to part with the M5 (still sad about it to this day). My consolation prize was an '09 BMW 335i convertible:

 

 

 

 

What does this say about my faith status?  I don't know...other than I do worship cars.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I wish I had the same experience as all of you. But sadly I hate working out and I really still enjoy soda and pizza.

 

I seemed to have lost passion in a lot of areas.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Kenngo1969]

This probably doesn't fit Happy Jack Wagon's paradigms of midlife crises and/or of faith crises, respectively, because I haven't done any of the things he talked about in the opening post: I'm not a Sunday-colored-shirt wearing apostate, I don't have enough hair left to grow it long (I guess I could grow a beard, but I'd have to get some Just For Men , because it would be quite gray), my social and political beliefs haven't changed even though aspects of them are not as popular or as enlightened as they once were.  I'd like to have enough disposable income to have a hot-sportscar-buying midlife crisis, but I don't.

 

I've been going through what some might call a midlife crisis for about fifteen years now (if my math is right, it started at about the ripe old age of 30).  I could get mad at God because He hasn't seen fit to help me find a job that plays the most to my biggest strengths (mostly, I've simply done what I've had to do to pay the bills: one day in my working life before I retire ... although retirement won't prove to be a viable option unless things change very drastically; I have two problems: (1) I'd have to work long enough at something to retire from it, and (2) I'd have to have enough to retire on ... I'd like to have a job that doesn't involve answering phones); I could get mad at Him because He hasn't seen fit to help me persuade one member of the female of the species ... which seems not only content but downright bound and determined, in its entirety, to ignore me ... to give me her sustained attention.  I could get mad at Him because I made some decisions about educational pursuits that I felt at the time somehow were inspired, but, instead, have left me with massive debt and what has turned out, so far, but with little prospect of changing, to be an expensive hobby.

 

On the other hand, there have been times when I've known He's there, and, like Joseph Smith, "I [cannot] deny it, neither [dare] I do it, at least I [know] by doing so, I [will] offend God and come under condemnation."  On an operating table three times, waiting to be cut open by a maverick surgeon when the weight of competent medical opinion held that the best way to deal with the situation was to try, yet a third time, an operation that had already failed ... not just once, but twice ... I was assured of an outcome that, given those odds, would have been foolhardy (at least according to conventional, mortal wisdom), to trust.

 

Where did things go wrong?  How did I get my wires crossed?  Where is that same God who was there with such assurance on January 24, 1984; on February 14, 1984; and on June 7, 1985?  What should I have done differently in deciding my educational pursuits?  As much as I might wish it were otherwise in some respects, Christ died so that most of the bosses at the employers where I have applied could make the decision to not hire me.  As much as I might wish it were otherwise in some respects, Christ died so that all of the women in which I have expressed an interest could choose, ultimately, to not reciprocate.  (As much as I wish I were God's Gift to those employers or to those women, I've never quite been able to work up the hubris to say that.)  I've compared the story of Francis Webster to my experience in law school many times: just as Brother Webster felt somebody help him pull his handcart, I know, even if I only realized it largely in retrospect, that I couldn't have made it through without God's help.

 

I could say, "Well, He's not there now; where did He go?  What did I do wrong?"  The only answers He's seen fit to give me are, "Ken, I'm not Santa Claus: I don't give my children 'presents' when they're good and 'lumps of coal' when they're bad."   And, while I'm not saying I haven't been blessed ... things could definitely be worse; I could've been smart enough to get into Harvard and then not have been able to take/pass the Bar or get a job, in which case I'd have at least 3-4 times the debt I do now ... "Ken, you shouldn't live the Gospel just because you hope I'll give you 'presents':  You should live it because, whatever else happens to you, it's the right thing to do and because it fills your soul."

 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have an appointment to go test drive a hot, red sportscar.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[Calm]

Get your thyroid tested. . (it seems to be a common problem around here)

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I thought Joseph Smith specifically taught the Shakers that we no longer need to follow the dietary laws. I'd look it up, but that's what I remember.

I don't remember hearing that- and if he did, I would have to respectfully disagree with him over a nice cold beer.

[ttribe]

I wish I had the same experience as all of you. But sadly I hate working out and I really still enjoy soda and pizza.

 

I seemed to have lost passion in a lot of areas.

 

 

Get your thyroid tested. . (it seems to be a common problem around here)

 

Actually, Mola, cal may have a point.  I'm working with an endocrinologist right now because I've been feeling a lot like you are right now.

[omni]

Speaking only for myself, questioning my faith led me to question other aspects of my life, as well. I did become less socially conservative, and way less of a political junkie. When I thought things through, I discovered that some of my political and social beliefs were directly tied to my religious beliefs. SSM is a good example; when I no longer had a religious reason for opposing it, I dug deeply into it and realized that I didn't find the arguments against it persuasive at all.

This is interesting, the same thing happened to me. As a TBM, I considered myself a political junkie - I would listen to all the talk radio guys, read the right wing websites, and watched Fox News. Now I consider myself a moderate Independent who is informed, but certainly not a "junkie".

I can see a correlation between the other issues HJW listed, but I'm not sure why (if any) there would be a correlation to a decrease in interest of politics.

[ALarson]

This probably doesn't fit Happy Jack Wagon's paradigms of midlife crises and/or of faith crises, respectively, because I haven't done any of the things he talked about in the opening post: I'm not a Sunday-colored-shirt wearing apostate, I don't have enough hair left to grow it long (I guess I could grow a beard, but I'd have to get some Just For Men , because it would be quite gray), my social and political beliefs haven't changed even though aspects of them are not as popular or as enlightened as they once were.  I'd like to have enough disposable income to have a hot-sportscar-buying midlife crisis, but I don't.

 

I've been going through what some might call a midlife crisis for about fifteen years now (if my math is right, it started at about the ripe old age of 30).  I could get mad at God because He hasn't seen fit to help me find a job that plays the most to my biggest strengths (mostly, I've simply done what I've had to do to pay the bills: one day in my working life before I retire ... although retirement won't prove to be a viable option unless things change very drastically; I have two problems: (1) I'd have to work long enough at something to retire from it, and (2) I'd have to have enough to retire on ... I'd like to have a job that doesn't involve answering phones); I could get mad at Him because He hasn't seen fit to help me persuade one member of the female of the species ... which seems not only content but downright bound and determined, in its entirety, to ignore me ... to give me her sustained attention.  I could get mad at Him because I made some decisions about educational pursuits that I felt at the time somehow were inspired, but, instead, have left me with massive debt and what has turned out, so far, but with little prospect of changing, to be an expensive hobby.

 

On the other hand, there have been times when I've known He's there, and, like Joseph Smith, "I [cannot] deny it, neither [dare] I do it, at least I [know] by doing so, I [will] offend God and come under condemnation."  On an operating table three times, waiting to be cut open by a maverick surgeon when the weight of competent medical opinion held that the best way to deal with the situation was to try, yet a third time, an operation that had already failed ... not just once, but twice ... I was assured of an outcome that, given those odds, would have been foolhardy (at least according to conventional, mortal wisdom), to trust.

 

Where did things go wrong?  How did I get my wires crossed?  Where is that same God who was there with such assurance on January 24, 1984; on February 14, 1984; and on June 7, 1985?  What should I have done differently in deciding my educational pursuits?  As much as I might wish it were otherwise in some respects, Christ died so that most of the bosses at the employers where I have applied could make the decision to not hire me.  As much as I might wish it were otherwise in some respects, Christ died so that all of the women in which I have expressed an interest could choose, ultimately, to not reciprocate.  (As much as I wish I were God's Gift to those employers or to those women, I've never quite been able to work up the hubris to say that.)  I've compared the story of Francis Webster to my experience in law school many times: just as Brother Webster felt somebody help him pull his handcart, I know, even if I only realized it largely in retrospect, that I couldn't have made it through without God's help.

 

I could say, "Well, He's not there now; where did He go?  What did I do wrong?"  The only answers He's seen fit to give me are, "Ken, I'm not Santa Claus: I don't give my children 'presents' when they're good and 'lumps of coal' when they're bad."   And, while I'm not saying I haven't been blessed ... things could definitely be worse; I could've been smart enough to get into Harvard and then not have been able to take/pass the Bar or get a job, in which case I'd have at least 3-4 times the debt I do now ... "Ken, you shouldn't live the Gospel just because you hope I'll give you 'presents':  You should live it because, whatever else happens to you, it's the right thing to do and because it fills your soul."

 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have an appointment to go test drive a hot, red sportscar.

Thanks for sharing all of that, Kenngo.  I enjoy feeling like I can get to know and understand people better on here.  You seem like a great guy with a very funny sense of humor and a lot to offer others 

 

I was never really angry at God or even felt anger towards my leaders.  I kind of skipped the anger stage, I guess.  

 

What I did, worked well for me (so far), but I'd never try to tell someone else they should do the same.  I guess it's just nice to have some open communication about it and learn from others here.

Edited August 20, 2015 by ALarson

[jkwilliams]

This is interesting, the same thing happened to me. As a TBM, I considered myself a political junkie - I would listen to all the talk radio guys, read the right wing websites, and watched Fox News. Now I consider myself a moderate Independent who is informed, but certainly not a "junkie".

I can see a correlation between the other issues HJW listed, but I'm not sure why (if any) there would be a correlation to a decrease in interest of politics.

 

I never listened to talk radio much, but I was an avid reader of National Review and other conservative publications. Heck, I even helped Rich Lowry plan his vacation to Utah. I'm still fiscally conservative, but socially moderate. I think maybe because my political beliefs dovetailed so completely with my religious beliefs, both were part of my identity. Changing one necessarily changed the other, and both changed what I thought about myself and what was important to me. Just a guess, anyway.

[Bernard Gui]

I've had some who are close to me suggest I'm experiencing a mid-life crisis. They may be right. I'm not sure. But whether I am or not, I think it began with a faith crisis that then became a faith transition which then may have become a mid-life crisis.

 

Some evidence of a mid-life crisis they point to over the past year include...

 

-Change in physical appearance

   - Grew beard for the first time

   - Allowed hair to grow long enough it has a wave and nearly touches the collar of my shirt

   - Started working out and watching what I eat

   - New Sunday attire- colored shirts and bright socks

   - New casual clothes that are a bit more stylish

 

-Change in political beliefs

   -I used to be a huge political junkie. I've been on a year long fast from news and politics

   -Change in leanings on social issues, including SSM,

   -change in political affiliation from Republican to unafilliated

 

-Change in religious beliefs

   -From ultra orthodox to NOT

   -From ultra orthorprax to less orthoprax in minor ways

 

You get the idea.

 

So my question is this. Is the outward change truly a mid-life crisis or merely a natural evolution or external manifestation of my faith transition?

 

(I know you don't really have enough info to diagnose me but I'm curious about how you all might see a relationship between faith transitions and mid-life crisis)

Can of worms opened...GO.

I've had facial hair of some sort off and on since 1964. My hair was fairly long until it mostly fell out. I bought my VW GTi turbo charged sporty car at age 60

to replace my old beater Volvo wagon because at last I could afford it, but it did not cause a change in my political or religious commitments . 

I see no reason to wear sporty shirts or flashy socks to church, other than some curious sort of self-indulgence or a need to rub something in

someone's face. I've always been the paradigm of sartorial stylishness, especially if the brand is Filson, D-icikies, UA, or Levi.

I watch what I eat because one day I looked in the mirror and saw a really fat guy staring back., but I feel no need to buff out my musculature.

I don't care for pop music or pop culture, never have.

 

I remain politically conservative, passionately pro-traditional marriage and family, pro-life. I'm a deeply faithful LDS based on the powerful and undeniable

witnesses of the Holy Ghost that I have experienced. When I dig deep into my beliefs and actions, I realize that who I am is a direct result

of those experiences that have directed my walk with Jesus. I don't believe being fashionable is anything worth pursuing.

I reject the notion that any of the above makes me dishonest, disingenuous, not self-aware, or less a human being. 

Edited August 20, 2015 by Bernard Gui

[HappyJackWagon]

I reject the notion that any of the above makes me dishonest, disingenuous, not self-aware, or less a human being. 

Who suggested that? I haven't seen anything remotely close to that sentiment expressed on this thread. If that message came across somehow I apologize because I don't believe it.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Actually, Mola, cal may have a point.  I'm working with an endocrinologist right now because I've been feeling a lot like you are right now.

I just may need to do that. It has been rather recent say in the past 2 months.

[Buckeye]

I've had some who are close to me suggest I'm experiencing a mid-life crisis. They may be right. I'm not sure. But whether I am or not, I think it began with a faith crisis that then became a faith transition which then may have become a mid-life crisis.

 

Some evidence of a mid-life crisis they point to over the past year include...

 

-Change in physical appearance

   - Grew beard for the first time

   - Allowed hair to grow long enough it has a wave and nearly touches the collar of my shirt

   - Started working out and watching what I eat

   - New Sunday attire- colored shirts and bright socks

   - New casual clothes that are a bit more stylish

 

-Change in political beliefs

   -I used to be a huge political junkie. I've been on a year long fast from news and politics

   -Change in leanings on social issues, including SSM,

   -change in political affiliation from Republican to unafilliated

 

-Change in religious beliefs

   -From ultra orthodox to NOT

   -From ultra orthorprax to less orthoprax in minor ways

 

You get the idea.

 

So my question is this. Is the outward change truly a mid-life crisis or merely a natural evolution or external manifestation of my faith transition?

 

(I know you don't really have enough info to diagnose me but I'm curious about how you all might see a relationship between faith transitions and mid-life crisis)

Can of worms opened...GO.

 

Unfortunately, judging by the Kobe's contract, I can only assume that you'll be a mid-life crises for at least a few more seasons.

[ttribe]

I just may need to do that. It has been rather recent say in the past 2 months.

 

Step 1 - Get an appointment with an endocrinologist;

 

Step 2 - Ask to have your Thyroid tested;

 

Step 3 - Ask to have you testosterone levels tested (can look a lot like a Thyroid problem);

 

Step 4 - Ask to have your Vitamin D tested (low levels can also bring on fatigue);

 

Step 5 - Show up to have blood tested;

 

Step 6 - Don't faint when blood is drawn ;

 

Step 7 - Go home;

 

Step 8 - Wait for test results.

[Calm]

Step 1 - Get an appointment with an endocrinologist;

 

Step 2 - Ask to have your Thyroid tested;

 

Step 3 - Ask to have you testosterone levels tested (can look a lot like a Thyroid problem);

 

Step 4 - Ask to have your Vitamin D tested (low levels can also bring on fatigue);

 

Step 5 - Show up to have blood tested;

 

Step 6 - Don't faint when blood is drawn ;

 

Step 7 - Go home;

 

Step 8 - Wait for test results.

Oh good, now I don't have to say all that.

[rongo]

I just may need to do that. It has been rather recent say in the past 2 months.

I went to an endocrinologist a few years ago because I was always feeling tired. They took a lot of blood from me and ran a ton of tests on all sorts of things. When I went to confer about the results, the doctor frowned and studied them with a furrowed brow. I asked him what was wrong, and he said, "Nothing ---- except you should be dead. Your testosterone levels are toxically high."

 

(I made the obligatory joke ---- cough, cough, deep voice, "Yeah, I get that a lot."

 

His face brightened ---- "Oh, I see what the lab did. They listed you as a female. Your T levels are . . . exactly average for a 36 year-old male.

 

I actually had no abnormal readings, including thyroid.

 

My wife and I were headed to the temple, and he asked us what we were so dressed up for. When I told him where we were going, he admitted that he and his wife are LDS, but hadn't been to church in years. When I asked him if he had thought about coming back, he smiled and said maybe --- down the road.