How Do Lds View Suffering

[VideoGameJunkie]

Because the pain medication can alter your mental state and anything that does that I thought was considered bad.

[jkwilliams]

Because the pain medication can alter your mental state and anything that does that I thought was considered bad.

 

Nope. Not unless you're taking pain medication without a prescription.

[savedbygrace]

You all are dealing in hypothetical.  Last year I dealt with the reality.  My wife refused anymore hospitalization and so we called hospice and they assisted us through a few months that she had left.  I don't believe in suicide or assisted suicide but still don't know what would be classified as such.  Is it suicide to refuse treatment?  Is it assisted suicide to not take them to a medical facility even if they don't want to go?

I am sorry for your loss, I admire your wife's decision. I don't believe that refusing treatment is suicide. It is surely accepting the inevitable, and probably finding peace in that decision. I am glad there was a hospice available to her, that is what we need more of. A hospice in every town and dedicated end of life care, that provides pain relief, spiritual care if it is desired and respects the dignity of the person until natural death.

[savedbygrace]

Because the pain medication can alter your mental state and anything that does that I thought was considered bad.

Wouldn't that depend on the reason you are taking it? IE for the pain, or for the effect on your mental state. I don't have to make such decisions but if I were in great pain I would take the medication. I might hesitate if it were habit forming, but at the end of the day it's a trade off, do the benefits outweigh the risk, type of thing.

[Calm]

Am I sinning if I take pain medication for my herniated disk in my back and a bad shoulder? Is that against the word of wisdom? I feel deep down that I need it for the pain and am amazed at the progress in medicine that we have. It's like modern medicine is the answer to prayers of people from the past.

Absolutely not. The body can get used to pain and raise the level if not properly medicated so that you end up using more. I use much less if I treat the nights preventatively (watch the clock rather than my symptoms). Are you doing what else your doctor recommends to treat it? If you are doing that and keeping to the levels recommended and not taking it for euphoria or to dull negative emotions (even if it has those effects when taking it for pain), you should feel comfortable about taking it.

Some people feel like a failure if they need medical help to heal or stay on balance, yet if they were hit by another car there wouldn't be any question about getting broken bones set, etc. Because pain is a feeling, somehow we are supposed to have more control over it than a shattered bone but pain is a response of nerves and so is just as physical as a broken bone.

Many of the most effective pain treatments are a result of studying nature. God gave us our brains and inspiration to progress. Why should we believe he doesn't want us to use it because it makes our lives easier. A car makes life much easier, we would suffer a lot more if we gave up those than medications in many cases.

[Calm]

Because the pain medication can alter your mental state and anything that does that I thought was considered bad.

If your mental state is in a bad way, then altering it is a good thing. God doesn't need a good portion of the world in depression or even suicidal.

If it is a side effect, it is no more a problem than getting constipation from a drug. You aren't sinning because that happens to you. Just because a side effect might feel good doesn't mean the drug is bad. You get a side effect, you adjust so it doesn't interfere with making good choices or your life if you can help it, nice or not so nice side effect.

Edited August 19, 2015 by calmoriah

[Calm]

I have a chemical inbalance in my brain right now that makes painful and uncomfortable moments seem more painful than they really are, so I'm not looking forward to my future suffering. I'm afraid of suffering. It's my biggest fear I pray to pass on peacefully in my sleep when I'm old and still functioning, but not everyone gets what they hope for.

I have a progressive disorder and at the moment it appears the research is focusing more on adapting the class of drugs I cannot tolerate than innovative treatments so at times I feel like it is the reverse of a race...can I put off the next significant degeneration long enough for there to be something to treat it? I don't look forward to either how my grandfather or father ended up, but I am doing my best to do my part to keep that from happening. I will have to leave the rest in God's hands.

[Kenngo1969]

Personally, I think we make a mistake if we say that there's no purpose in suffering.  Simply because we may not understand such purposes is no reason to discount them altogether.  And we need not be omniscient to recognize at least some of those purposes: suffering allows us to develop (or at least to demonstrate) empathy for our fellow human beings, charity for them, and so on.  And what if, freed from the close-up perspective of a single, seemingly-incomprehensible moment, we discover other purposes when we see that same moment with a wide-angle, panoramic perspective.  Looking at the close-up might not make much sense, then we see the same thing from a wide-angle perspective and say, "Ohhhh, so that's what was going on in that picture!"  And our inability to remember the premortal first act combined with skepticism about the postmortal third act further limits our perspective.  We either have a firm hope and faith that what Paul wrote to the Romans ... "All things work together for the good of them that love God" (Romans 8:28) ... not just the "good" things, and not just the things that our limited, finite minds can make sense of in the here-and-now, but all things ... is true, or we do not. Personally, I think life, even at its best, is really tough to make sense of if we lack that perspective.  Your mileage may vary.

 

I admit, I don't understand the interplay between what God causes, what He merely allows, man's inhumanity to man, hap crappening, and so on.  Sometimes life, in some of its phases, is like an open-book test, and we find the answers in the scriptures; sometimes, even "cheating" is allowed when God whispers the answers to us; and sometimes, we're left to "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling."  Asking, "Why would God do [x]?" or "Why would He allow [x]?" when it's very likely that a mortal mind with a finite perspective won't be able to comprehend the answer isn't very useful.  I'd rather trust that I'll have all of the answers I need in the end, as Joseph Smith promised us that all of our losses will be made up to us in the resurrection if we continue faithful.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[Ahab]

Personally, I think we make a mistake if we say that there's no purpose in suffering. Simply because we may not understand such purposes is no reason to discount them altogether. And we need not be omniscient to recognize at least some of those purposes: suffering allows us to develop (or at least to demonstrate) empathy for our fellow human beings, charity for them, and so on...

including helping us to develop a better sense of humor. Seriously. I know I still have a long way to go but I'm much funnier than I used to be and I see humor in more things than I once did.

Your whole post was great, by the way. I just didn't want to quote the whole thing. And I also appreciated seeing your sense of humor.

[JAHS]

Because the pain medication can alter your mental state and anything that does that I thought was considered bad.

No. It's mostly anything you take that is not needed for pain that one aquires an addiction to; like Coffee, Tea, Alcohol, tobacco, non-prescription drugs.

[Kenngo1969]

You all are dealing in hypothetical.  Last year I dealt with the reality.  My wife refused anymore hospitalization and so we called hospice and they assisted us through a few months that she had left.  I don't believe in suicide or assisted suicide but still don't know what would be classified as such.  Is it suicide to refuse treatment?  Is it assisted suicide to not take them to a medical facility even if they don't want to go? 

My answer to both of those questions, and I believe the answer of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints per Handbook 1, is "No."  I believe the position of the Church of Jesus Christ is that decisions about what treatment (if any) to seek or to implement is one that should be made prayerfully by the one suffering and his loved ones (if he is incapacitated), in consultation with those closest to him.  Unless we die suddenly, most of us, sooner or later, will have to confront the questions of how much treatment is enough (and of how much is too much) respectively.  Yes, life is sacred; yes, in view of that sacredness, we should not end life unduly or prematurely; yes, we should not make decisions about what medical treatment to opt for, and what treatment to not opt for, lightly.  

 

But there's no principle of the Gospel of Jesus Christ that holds that since life is sacred, we must pursue any and all options to prolong it, no matter how costly those options might be, no matter how unlikely their chances of success, and even if we're simply adding days to life rather than adding life to days.  If, in good faith, any mistakes happen to have been made about what treatment (if any) to pursue, I'm confident that no Loving God will hold you (or anyone else) accountable for an unclear vision of something you (or anyone else) saw only "through a glass, darkly," perhaps in days filled with anguish of soul as you watched someone you love more than life itself suffer, and wished more than anything that you could take her burdens upon yourself.  If you're carrying the burden of such unanswered questions in your heart, I would take it to the Lord in prayer and, if necessary, to your Priesthood leaders.  I'm confident their counsel to you would be along the same lines as my counsel to you here has been, and I know the Lord will speak peace to your soul.

 

I can't imagine what you've been through, but I wish you well, My Brother.

[Paradox_58]

After reading all the posts, I feel very strongly to share the story of my eldest son. In 1980 at the age of 2, he was in a near-drowning accident. Doctors saved his life but he was left with extreme brain damage. For the first year after his injury, he suffered greatly. It was the worst thing I have ever experienced as I had to watch my baby every day. We felt very clearly that we were not to intervene but just keep caring for him and loving him. As he stabilized at about 1 year post-injury, he no longer physically suffered, but was unable to function beyond the level of a small baby as far as walking or talking. He was wheelchair bound, wore a diaper all his life, and never spoke a word after his accident. He died at 17, when he began to have related complications that would have made his life unbearable, and we made the decision, with the support of the bishop, to stop any intervention in his repeated bouts of pneumonia. During his life, he made more difference in the lives of those around him than anything I could have imagined. 

 

His siblings have shared many times the great gift he gave them of learning compassion and service. He was always cheerful and joyful, even when it wasn't easy. He simply glowed with love for others, and at his funeral, many spoke of the impact he had on their lives because of his example and his love. I had an uncle who told me that at the time of his injury, he had thought we should have "let him go" and not allowed the doctors to save his life. After the funeral, my uncle expressed his gratitude and understanding that the Lord had worked through my son and his challenges to make others' lives better. 

 

I wondered many times why my son had to suffer; I felt a clear visitation from my son later to tell me that it was like having an "owie" as a child--it was over, forgotten, and in an eternal view, really didn't matter anymore. I don't pretend to understand all suffering, but I know that in my family's case, my child's innocent suffering "for no good reason" actually had many good reasons and gave us all experiences and opportunities for service, love, and growth that we might not have had in any other way. 

[thesometimesaint]

After reading all the posts, I feel very strongly to share the story of my eldest son. In 1980 at the age of 2, he was in a near-drowning accident. Doctors saved his life but he was left with extreme brain damage. For the first year after his injury, he suffered greatly. It was the worst thing I have ever experienced as I had to watch my baby every day. We felt very clearly that we were not to intervene but just keep caring for him and loving him. As he stabilized at about 1 year post-injury, he no longer physically suffered, but was unable to function beyond the level of a small baby as far as walking or talking. He was wheelchair bound, wore a diaper all his life, and never spoke a word after his accident. He died at 17, when he began to have related complications that would have made his life unbearable, and we made the decision, with the support of the bishop, to stop any intervention in his repeated bouts of pneumonia. During his life, he made more difference in the lives of those around him than anything I could have imagined. 

 

His siblings have shared many times the great gift he gave them of learning compassion and service. He was always cheerful and joyful, even when it wasn't easy. He simply glowed with love for others, and at his funeral, many spoke of the impact he had on their lives because of his example and his love. I had an uncle who told me that at the time of his injury, he had thought we should have "let him go" and not allowed the doctors to save his life. After the funeral, my uncle expressed his gratitude and understanding that the Lord had worked through my son and his challenges to make others' lives better. 

 

I wondered many times why my son had to suffer; I felt a clear visitation from my son later to tell me that it was like having an "owie" as a child--it was over, forgotten, and in an eternal view, really didn't matter anymore. I don't pretend to understand all suffering, but I know that in my family's case, my child's innocent suffering "for no good reason" actually had many good reasons and gave us all experiences and opportunities for service, love, and growth that we might not have had in any other way. 

 

Very sweet, and my heart goes out to you and you family. He is in a better place.

 

Years ago I was severely permanently disabled at over 95%. I'm not suicidal, but have had a Do Not Resuscitate order in my medical records and my personal records.

[Tacenda]

After reading all the posts, I feel very strongly to share the story of my eldest son. In 1980 at the age of 2, he was in a near-drowning accident. Doctors saved his life but he was left with extreme brain damage. For the first year after his injury, he suffered greatly. It was the worst thing I have ever experienced as I had to watch my baby every day. We felt very clearly that we were not to intervene but just keep caring for him and loving him. As he stabilized at about 1 year post-injury, he no longer physically suffered, but was unable to function beyond the level of a small baby as far as walking or talking. He was wheelchair bound, wore a diaper all his life, and never spoke a word after his accident. He died at 17, when he began to have related complications that would have made his life unbearable, and we made the decision, with the support of the bishop, to stop any intervention in his repeated bouts of pneumonia. During his life, he made more difference in the lives of those around him than anything I could have imagined. 

 

His siblings have shared many times the great gift he gave them of learning compassion and service. He was always cheerful and joyful, even when it wasn't easy. He simply glowed with love for others, and at his funeral, many spoke of the impact he had on their lives because of his example and his love. I had an uncle who told me that at the time of his injury, he had thought we should have "let him go" and not allowed the doctors to save his life. After the funeral, my uncle expressed his gratitude and understanding that the Lord had worked through my son and his challenges to make others' lives better. 

 

I wondered many times why my son had to suffer; I felt a clear visitation from my son later to tell me that it was like having an "owie" as a child--it was over, forgotten, and in an eternal view, really didn't matter anymore. I don't pretend to understand all suffering, but I know that in my family's case, my child's innocent suffering "for no good reason" actually had many good reasons and gave us all experiences and opportunities for service, love, and growth that we might not have had in any other way. 

Oh, this is so touching.  Your son gave back to you so much.  You are far better people for having serving or knowing this courageous young man.  I'm so excited for the day you reunite! 

 

I am fortunate to care for a young man each Sunday in Primary class.  Next year he'll be in Young Men's both hours.   He was born with a neurological brain disorder.  When he was born he was a normal baby, until one day around 1 or so, he stopped progressing.  He's unable to speak words but will make noise when compelled, beautiful, wonderful noise!  He smiles and laughs, and even cries.  He's in a wheel chair, but can't feed himself etc.  He is fed through a tube.  His family and him are my hero's.  He's had many surgeries for different internal problems, and suffers with pain and insomnia, but he and this family keep going.  We've already had a couple of fundraisers to help with medical costs.  The ward and neighborhood will forever be changed for the better because of this young man's heroism.  This is how I picture your son and your family.  Hugs to you!!  I'm sorry for your loss, but feel how fortunate you were in having that experience.  I often feel like, there's no way I could handle the situation as you and this family in my ward has, but I guess you just man/woman up and do it, and then you are then so much better the person who has been around these hero's that have that giant hurdle, but handle it like a super hero! 

 

The young man I help just loves super hero's, and lately Jurassic World toys!!  I believe you're right, there must be a reason.  As in having my beautiful mom get Alzheimer's at a young age, for so long I was bitter for her having had to go through it.  But believe she made those surrounding her better people, through serving her and making them more sympathetic to others needs or disorders!!   

[Guest]

The reason for my question is that soon, in the UK, a euthanasia bill will come before parliament. It worries me. So out of interest, how do you view suffering, do you see anything positive that can come from it. Do you think it is our right to say, ok I've had enough, I want to shuffle off. Do you think that we have this right even though our lives are God given?

Suffering is a part of life, be ye LDS or not. Everyone views it as a necessary part of life. What is different in our faith is that it also serves an eternal purpose. I have a friend who was corisponded with me today on Facebook who has lost a daughter today due to a genetic deasese, and will lose a son within a year, hopefully two to the same condition. It is just as heartbreaking to them as it would be to anyone, but their faith assures them they will be reunited again as a family in the eternities. Hope this helps with your question.

[ERayR]

My answer to both of those questions, and I believe the answer of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints per Handbook 1, is "No."  I believe the position of the Church of Jesus Christ is that decisions about what treatment (if any) to seek or to implement is one that should be made prayerfully by the one suffering and his loved ones (if he is incapacitated), in consultation with those closest to him.  Unless we die suddenly, most of us, sooner or later, will have to confront the questions of how much treatment is enough (and of how much is too much) respectively.  Yes, life is sacred; yes, in view of that sacredness, we should not end life unduly or prematurely; yes, we should not make decisions about what medical treatment to opt for, and what treatment to not opt for, lightly.  

 

But there's no principle of the Gospel of Jesus Christ that holds that since life is sacred, we must pursue any and all options to prolong it, no matter how costly those options might be, no matter how unlikely their chances of success, and even if we're simply adding days to life rather than adding life to days.  If, in good faith, any mistakes happen to have been made about what treatment (if any) to pursue, I'm confident that no Loving God will hold you (or anyone else) accountable for an unclear vision of something you (or anyone else) saw only "through a glass, darkly," perhaps in days filled with anguish of soul as you watched someone you love more than life itself suffer, and wished more than anything that you could take her burdens upon yourself.  If you're carrying the burden of such unanswered questions in your heart, I would take it to the Lord in prayer and, if necessary, to your Priesthood leaders.  I'm confident their counsel to you would be along the same lines as my counsel to you here has been, and I know the Lord will speak peace to your soul.

 

I can't imagine what you've been through, but I wish you well, My Brother.

 

MY questions were rhetorical.  I have already past them and am comfortable with what was done because it was my wife's decision.  She wanted no more doctors and hospitals.  I once ask her, when she was having a bad day, if she wanted to go to the hospital.  I was rewarded with one of her famous "bad kid" looks.  Over her lifetime she had had all she could tolerate of Dr's. and hospitals.

[ERayR]

Oh, this is so touching.  Your son gave back to you so much.  You are far better people for having serving or knowing this courageous young man.  I'm so excited for the day you reunite! 

 

I am fortunate to care for a young man each Sunday in Primary class.  Next year he'll be in Young Men's both hours.    He was born with a neurological brain disorder.  When he was born he was a normal baby, until one day around 1 or so, he stopped progressing.  He's unable to speak words but will make noise when compelled, beautiful, wonderful noise!  He smiles and laughs, and even cries.  He's in a wheel chair, but can't feed himself etc.  He is fed through a tube.  His family and him are my hero's.  He's had many surgeries for different internal problems, and suffers with pain and insomnia, but he and this family keep going.  We've already had a couple of fundraisers to help with medical costs.  The ward and neighborhood will forever be changed for the better because of this young man's heroism.  This is how I picture your son and your family.  Hugs to you!!  I'm sorry for your loss, but feel how fortunate you were in having that experience.  I often feel like, there's no way I could handle the situation as you and this family in my ward has, but I guess you just man/woman up and do it, and then you are then so much better the person who has been around these hero's that have that giant hurdle, but handle it like a super hero! 

 

The young man I help just loves super hero's, and lately Jurassic World toys!!  I believe you're right, there must be a reason.  As in having my beautiful mom get Alzheimer's at a young age, for so long I was bitter for her having had to go through it.  But believe she made those surrounding her better people, through serving her and making them more sympathetic to others needs or disorders!!   

 

Bless you for the service you provide to him.

[Kenngo1969]

MY questions were rhetorical.  I have already past them and am comfortable with what was done because it was my wife's decision.  She wanted no more doctors and hospitals.  I once ask her, when she was having a bad day, if she wanted to go to the hospital.  I was rewarded with one of her famous "bad kid" looks.  Over her lifetime she had had all she could tolerate of Dr's. and hospitals.

Fair 'nough!    I can't imagine what you've been through, but I'm glad you are at peace with the circumstances.  I wish you a happy reunion in due course.

[ERayR]

Fair 'nough!    I can't imagine what you've been through, but I'm glad you are at peace with the circumstances.  I wish you a happy reunion in due course.

 

Don't hurry me.  I have some grand kids who still need me.

[Kenngo1969]

Fair 'nough!    I can't imagine what you've been through, but I'm glad you are at peace with the circumstances.  I wish you a happy reunion in due course.

 

Don't hurry me.  I have some grand kids who still need me.

Which is why I said, "... in due course."

[Tacenda]

Bless you for the service you provide to him.

Thank you & bless you!! ♥

In my heart & soul I believe he is more helpful to me, than me to him. For one, my activity in the church each Sunday. He is the reason I've been active nearly every Sunday for almost 4 years. Years that I could have easily fell into inactivity.

(I need to edit that this coming January he will be in Young Men's the last hour and Sunday school right after Sacrament. So I might still get to help him the second hour, hope so!)

[rodheadlee]

Suffering teaches us humility as well as compassion.

[The Nehor]

Suffering teaches us humility as well as compassion.

 

And that we want it to end.

[Kenngo1969]

Suffering teaches us humility as well as compassion.

 

 

And that we want it to end.

It is a hard teacher, there's no doubt about that.

[savedbygrace]

Suffering is a hard teacher, no doubt about that. The Catholic position is that out of suffering God will bring good, the sufferer may not even be aware of that Good. Also that if we unite our sufferings as an offering to Christ's sufferings we become more closely united to Him. Also that suffering can bring us closer to God through trusting Him. In these posts we have heard of great courage in suffering, the lessons in love, compassion, service and humility that people have been blessed with, so God has brought good out of these heart breaking circumstances. But I worry sometimes because I have never suffered beyond pain of child birth or the natural loss of loved ones, so while I am consoled by your examples of faithful acceptance, I don't know in all honesty how I will cope when suffering comes. I applaud everyone here who has shared their experiences, May God bless you all, and may He continue to be your consolation and strength.