Flyonthewall Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 My biggest fear is that this life is just a training ground for things to come. Everyone thinks heaven will be a worry-free/stress-free place or state of being, and all will be perfectly joyous. But what if it is simply more of the same? If this mortal life is our training ground, so to speak, what is it we are training for? More suffering? How to be happy in our suffering? Why so much mortal suffering when the majority of our existence will be immortal? How will it translate? How will hunger and thirst, and disease translate into our immortal existence? Will we continue to have hunger? thirst? diseases? What if this IS as good as it gets? My teachings and faith tell me it should be much better after this mortal life...but what if all we are here to do is find a way to extract happiness out of suffering because that is what we will need to do in the rest of our existence.... Sigh.
CV75 Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 The reason for my question is that soon, in the UK, a euthanasia bill will come before parliament. It worries me. So out of interest, how do you view suffering, do you see anything positive that can come from it. Do you think it is our right to say, ok I've had enough, I want to shuffle off. Do you think that we have this right even though our lives are God given?On vacation / iPad, limited participation: I think everything, and everything we experience carries meaning, but the only meaningful meaning is that which we attach to it. As eternal beings, the more advanced we become as we learn to have a fulness of joy in these (separable) connected spirits and body/element, the less self-centered we become, and the more meaning we find and share with others. Sanctification is the key to meaning and finding meaning.As to avoiding heroic measures to extend life, I think that is consistent with LDS doctrine. I think living wills are a good idea, and from an LDS perspective, only as good as the inspiration that goes into them. We are taught to do the best we can with what we have, including our understanding of suffering in relation to the sanctity of life and how much to impose on others.I think the idea of regulating euthanasia puts unnecessary restrictions on, and ignores many of the nuances of how end-of-life decisions are made. I think it should be kept illegal like some forms of abortion, and let those that have the forethought to make the difficult choice in a way that avoids legal/criminal repercussions keep it between them and God as their judge.
The Nehor Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 My biggest fear is that this life is just a training ground for things to come.Everyone thinks heaven will be a worry-free/stress-free place or state of being, and all will be perfectly joyous.But what if it is simply more of the same? If this mortal life is our training ground, so to speak, what is it we are training for?More suffering? How to be happy in our suffering?Why so much mortal suffering when the majority of our existence will be immortal? How will it translate?How will hunger and thirst, and disease translate into our immortal existence? Will we continue to have hunger? thirst? diseases?What if this IS as good as it gets?My teachings and faith tell me it should be much better after this mortal life...but what if all we are here to do is find a way to extract happiness out of suffering because that is what we will need to do in the rest of our existence....Sigh.For what it is worth I am sure that that is not how the eternities work. Jack Nicholson asked if this is as good as it gets but in reality this is as bad as it gets unless you go to hell and even most of those people get out. There is rest and healing there. In heaven joy is serious business in the sense that creating and sharing it is what we do.For example after the resurrection I am going to make a gigantic world of water and ride a wave all the way around the globe. Why? Because it sounds like fun. You are invited to come if you want. 1
Ahab Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 My biggest fear is that this life is just a training ground for things to come.Everyone thinks heaven will be a worry-free/stress-free place or state of being, and all will be perfectly joyous.But what if it is simply more of the same? If this mortal life is our training ground, so to speak, what is it we are training for?More suffering? How to be happy in our suffering?Why so much mortal suffering when the majority of our existence will be immortal? How will it translate?How will hunger and thirst, and disease translate into our immortal existence? Will we continue to have hunger? thirst? diseases?What if this IS as good as it gets?My teachings and faith tell me it should be much better after this mortal life...but what if all we are here to do is find a way to extract happiness out of suffering because that is what we will need to do in the rest of our existence....Sigh.This is a phase that ALL of us go through, ALL of us who are the same kind of being we are, or rather ALL of all who progress to this second "estate" as it is referred to, so the experience we get from this mortal experience helps us to understand and relate to others of our kind who will go through this kind of experience. Through all generations of time and throughout all of eternity. Because we were once little children we can now better relate to other little children we see and interact with. And because we are now mortal adults who have already related and interacted with children we have seen we can now better relate and interact with any other children we will see sometime later. And there will always be children and other adults to relate to and interact with. Always. Our past experiences will always help us with our experiences in the future. Always and forever. What is now is only a part of what is to come.
VideoGameJunkie Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 I believe there will be emotional suffering to a sense in heaven. Especially if we become exalted and have our own spirit children, it's inevitable that some of them will follow the path that leads to destruction and this will severely upset anyone. I know Heavenly Father grieves over the children He has lost throughout the eternities because He loves us more than anything. We're all He has and when and if we become exalted, our spirit children will be all we have. I know God was angry and sad over the suffering and death of Jesus Christ, but it was necessary for a savior. So while I hope there's no physical pain in heaven, I know there will be emotional pain over love for others who choose the wrong path.
The Nehor Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 I believe there will be emotional suffering to a sense in heaven. Especially if we become exalted and have our own spirit children, it's inevitable that some of them will follow the path that leads to destruction and this will severely upset anyone. I know Heavenly Father grieves over the children He has lost throughout the eternities because He loves us more than anything. We're all He has and when and if we become exalted, our spirit children will be all we have. I know God was angry and sad over the suffering and death of Jesus Christ, but it was necessary for a savior. So while I hope there's no physical pain in heaven, I know there will be emotional pain over love for others who choose the wrong path.There will be a form of pain but our pain here is compounded by ignorance. There you can see enough to assuage the pain and have it swallowed by joy. While the Lord and Enoch both wept Enoch refused to be comforted until he saw Zion in glory at the end of the world. The Lord was already comforted.
Rivers Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 I work in health care and see a lot of suffering. It drives me bonkers when patients' family members insist in prolonging the dying process. I hate watching people suffer. 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 My best friend's dad prayed every day that he would die peacefully without suffering. At age 67 his heart exploded and he passed from a heart attack before he could even realize it. He left too soon but he got what he always prayed for.
The Nehor Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 I have been told I will die peacefully. Not sure if that means die in sleep or die painlessly or die in agony but with peace mingled in.
Ahab Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 For what it is worth I am sure that that is not how the eternities work. Jack Nicholson asked if this is as good as it gets but in reality this is as bad as it gets unless you go to hell and even most of those people get out. There is rest and healing there. In heaven joy is serious business in the sense that creating and sharing it is what we do.For example after the resurrection I am going to make a gigantic world of water and ride a wave all the way around the globe. Why? Because it sounds like fun. You are invited to come if you want. Sure, that would be something nice to do at least once. Maybe a few times. But somebody else has probably already thought of that and we could probably just go to his planet instead of having to make one just to do that. Or maybe we could do that with one of ours before we raise the land and put various kinds of living beings on it.
Kenngo1969 Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 It is a hard teacher, there's no doubt about that. Suffering is a hard teacher, no doubt about that. ...Is there an echo in here? Is there an echo in here?
The Nehor Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Sure, that would be something nice to do at least once. Maybe a few times. But somebody else has probably already thought of that and we could probably just go to his planet instead of having to make one just to do that. Or maybe we could do that with one of ours before we raise the land and put various kinds of living beings on it.Then I will come up with something better like a dance party in an exploding star.
Ahab Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Then I will come up with something better like a dance party in an exploding star.Been there done that, or at least it felt like it, and I seriously think you could never come up with an idea that somebody hasn't already come up with and lots of other people haven't already done. We go back forever, you know. Nothing new under any sun anywhere.
The Nehor Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Been there done that, or at least it felt like it, and I seriously think you could never come up with an idea that somebody hasn't already come up with and lots of other people haven't already done. We go back forever, you know. Nothing new under any sun anywhere.Exaltation will be wasted if given to people like you. It takes a special kind of person to take omnipotence and pure joy and make it boring. 1
Ahab Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Exaltation will be wasted if given to people like you. It takes a special kind of person to take omnipotence and pure joy and make it boring.The fact that men are they they may have joy means men are meant to have joy. All men. And nobody can make joy and omnipotence boring no matter how much they may try, or try to make it seem as though it could be.YOU just haven't figured out yet how to have joy while someone like me enjoys it!
The Nehor Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 The fact that men are they they may have joy means men are meant to have joy. All men. And nobody can make joy and omnipotence boring no matter how much they may try, or try to make it seem as though it could be.YOU just haven't figured out yet how to have joy while someone like me enjoys it!Sorry, you aren't on my top 5 "People to Envy" list.
Ahab Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Sorry, you aren't on my top 5 "People to Envy" list.No problem. Just don't suffer because I have joy.
The Nehor Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 No problem. Just don't suffer because I have joy.To put your mind at ease I have never cried myself to sleep at night over how happy you are.
Ahab Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 To put your mind at ease I have never cried myself to sleep at night over how happy you are.Ha! Well that's good to know.
VideoGameJunkie Posted August 22, 2015 Posted August 22, 2015 I don't know why most people suffer most at the end of their life after already going through so much. Shouldn't people be rewarded at the end of their lives? Or does it make the transition through the veil that much more glorious when we pass on?
Ahab Posted August 22, 2015 Posted August 22, 2015 I don't know why most people suffer most at the end of their life after already going through so much. Shouldn't people be rewarded at the end of their lives? Or does it make the transition through the veil that much more glorious when we pass on?The why is the cause of the suffering. Getting shot with a gun just hurts, for example. That is why there is suffering in that situation. Sometimes the gunshot hurts so much that it kills instantly, and sometimes it takea longer
savedbygrace Posted August 23, 2015 Author Posted August 23, 2015 Is there an echo in here? Is there an echo in here? Sorry, is that plagiarism ?
The Nehor Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 I don't know why most people suffer most at the end of their life after already going through so much. Shouldn't people be rewarded at the end of their lives? Or does it make the transition through the veil that much more glorious when we pass on? It actually makes more sense to suffer at the end when it can best be used due to experience. The suffering of an infant does not teach as well as that of the elderly.
savedbygrace Posted August 25, 2015 Author Posted August 25, 2015 I don't know why most people suffer most at the end of their life after already going through so much. Shouldn't people be rewarded at the end of their lives? Or does it make the transition through the veil that much more glorious when we pass on?Couldn't suffering at the end lead to reflection and turn the mind of the sufferer to God? Perhaps a time of preparation, repentance, and spiritual healing, the result of which would be a peaceful passing, or good death which we pray for.
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