The Internet: Destroying Dialogue

[carbon dioxide]

It is easy to take a more hardline approach to any issue over the internet than in real person.  None of us would treat each other as we do online if we were in a room.  It is just always harder to look into the face of someone and be mean.  You don't have to dump everything Mystery Meat.  Take some time off.  Come back and then find topics that are less controversial that brings out the negative vibes.  For me my worst topic is the gay marriage issue and will not say why so I don't start a discussion on it here.  I need to be better at avoiding the issue.  Plus the topic pretty much has run its course.  Its the law now, the Church has its standards and its time to move on.  The Church has survived a 100 years of legalized booze in the USA and no doubt it will survive this. 

[Bobbieaware]

If I was primarily interested in getting an emotional response, I'd say these things to the people in my ward ... to their faces. That way, I could SEE the pain in their eyes and HEAR the emotion in their voices. I would have the added "pleasure" of shocking them with new and troubling information.

Yet, instead I come online, where emotional reactions can be most easily masked. And discuss things that shock NO ONE.

Your post brought an interesting thought to mind: Of all the 590 posts I've posted on this board thus far, I don't believe there's a single one that I would be ashamed or worried if my Bishop, my Stake President or any member of my ward were to read. Yet my posts accurately represent what I truly think and feel about the Church and the gospel in my private thoughts.

How about you? Would you be worried if your fellow ward members were to somehow get their hands on all you've posted on this board? Do you think your fellow ward members would think poorly of you if they were to confront the reality of what you really think and feel about the Church and the gospel?

Edited July 22, 2015 by Bobbieaware

[ALarson]

Your post brought an interesting thought to mind: Of all the 590 posts I've posted on this board thus far, I don't believe there's a single one that I would be ashamed or worried if my Bishop, my Stake President or any member of my ward were to read. Yet my posts accurately represent what I truly think and feel about the Church and the gospel in my private thoughts.

How about you? Would you be worried if your fellow ward members were to somehow get their hands on all you've posted on this board? Do you think your fellow ward members would think poorly of you if they were to confront the reality of what you really think and feel about the Church and the gospel?

Great question!  I have been totally honest with my Bishop and Stake President (and a few others) regarding what I believe.  We have also discussed much of what my issues are with church history.  So, I would have absolutely no problem with them reading any of my posts on here.

 

However, I have made a commitment at church to not ever bring up difficult issues or church history information that the teacher (or leaders) wouldn't want brought up in a class setting, etc.    But, would I be ashamed or embarrassed if they read any of my posts?  No.  

Edited July 22, 2015 by ALarson

[hagoth7]

Best wishes MM!

[Stargazer]

A few months ago, I came on this board in a huff about ETB being the focus of this year's Teachings of the Prophets. I believed I termed it "2015: Year of the Racist." While that might have been hurtful to many of you, I could find no more succinct way to describe the hurt and betrayal that my wife felt when she found out about it and declared that she would not step back into the church until 2016 (a vow that she has unfortunately kept).

I wish you hadn't written that, or I hadn't read it. It put me into a terrible funk.

That's all. And I hope your purposes in coming here have been fulfilled.

[mormonnewb]

Great question! I have been totally honest with my Bishop and Stake President (and a few others) regarding what I believe. We have also discussed much of what my issues are with church history. So, I would have absolutely no problem with them reading any of my posts on here.

However, I have made a commitment at church to not ever bring up difficult issues or church history information that the teacher (or leaders) wouldn't want brought up in a class setting, etc. But, would I be ashamed or embarrassed if they read any of my posts? No.

Ditto! I would hope that my local leaders would appreciate that I've kept these issues out of church.

That being said, my involvement in OW and my support of SSM leaks through into my FB posts, so those who are "friends" with me there know MOST of my dirty little secrets.

As for whether they still like me, it is incredibly hard not to. Some may have achieved that difficult feat, but I don't think many find it worth the effort. As my wife reminds me constantly, "Sean, you'd worry less about what people thought of you, if you realized how seldom they do."

[tagriffy]

How about you? Would you be worried if your fellow ward members were to somehow get their hands on all you've posted on this board? Do you think your fellow ward members would think poorly of you if they were to confront the reality of what you really think and feel about the Church and the gospel?

 

Not really. For a long time now, I've considered myself a Mormon-at-large rather than a Latter-day Saint. I haven't bothered to remove my name from the rolls, and I post under my real name, so if the local bishop want to make an issue of my stances, I'm not about to contest them.

 

For the most part I write for lurkers. I know I have little, if any hope of convincing the person I'm talking to, but I can give lurkers a choice. Usually That keeps me on a fairly even keel. Sometimes somebody will succeed in getting my goat, and don't hold back on how I feel. I use circumlocutions here, but I won't in forums that don't specifically require me to.

[3DOP]

I think I am much more measured and careful here, in spite of my pseudonym, than I am able to be to be in "real life". I seem more inclined to spontaneous rudeness and sins of the tongue in person, than of "sins of the written word." Come on over and I will show you what I mean.

Rory McKenzie

9816 NE 8th Circle

Vancouver, WA 98664

Edited July 22, 2015 by 3DOP

[Bernard Gui]

I have been here from before this place existed, if you get my drift. My experience over-all has been very positive. I have learned a great deal that I don't think I would have on my own, been challenged a lot, and through it have tried hard not to be confrontational or negative. I appreciate those who started and maintain this place and who give their time freely to keep it going. I have been on other discussion boards where there was real nastiness....shocking and far in excess of the mild bickering that we get.

But that's the nature of the beast, isn't it.

Some day remind me to tell the story about William Smith's debate club in Kirtland, Ohio....if you don't already know it.

[Bernard Gui]

Your post brought an interesting thought to mind: Of all the 590 posts I've posted on this board thus far, I don't believe there's a single one that I would be ashamed or worried if my Bishop, my Stake President or any member of my ward were to read. Yet my posts accurately represent what I truly think and feel about the Church and the gospel in my private thoughts.

How about you? Would you be worried if your fellow ward members were to somehow get their hands on all you've posted on this board? Do you think your fellow ward members would think poorly of you if they were to confront the reality of what you really think and feel about the Church and the gospel?

Absolutely not.

[HappyJackWagon]

Your post brought an interesting thought to mind: Of all the 590 posts I've posted on this board thus far, I don't believe there's a single one that I would be ashamed or worried if my Bishop, my Stake President or any member of my ward were to read. Yet my posts accurately represent what I truly think and feel about the Church and the gospel in my private thoughts.

How about you? Would you be worried if your fellow ward members were to somehow get their hands on all you've posted on this board? Do you think your fellow ward members would think poorly of you if they were to confront the reality of what you really think and feel about the Church and the gospel?

I think what ward members think is completely irrelevant. But of course I say things that push boundaries at times or possibly employ sarcasm more than I should. I don't want people to be hurt by that and I recognize that I'm not perfect in my communication with others. Frankly, anyone who feels they are perfect in their communication may need to go back and take a second look.

[Mars]

I think I am much more measured and careful here, in spite of my pseudonym, than I am able to be to be in "real life". I seem more inclined to spontaneous rudeness and sins of the tongue in person, than of "sins of the written word." Come on over and I will show you what I mean.

Rory McKenzie

9816 NE 8th Circle

Vancouver, WA 98664

 

pizza sent.

[bluebell]

As "part of the problem," I believe that I may have a fundamental misunderstanding of how an Internet discussion board should work. I came to this board to try to find answers to nagging questions that I think would be unwise to raise in, say, Sunday School or in an EQ lesson.

In doing so, I have often communicated in ways that I agree would be rude in other settings. Yet (with some exceptions), I have not been rude for the sake of being rude. I've done so in an attempt to be candid.

For example, in the past, I complained about, say, "the Church picking out my underwear for me." While that might be a jolting way of describing our sacred garments, I could think of no way to better explain how I felt about the garments. I still can't think of a way to better explain what I felt was a loss of agency -- a perspective that would be likely alien to a lifelong Mormon.

And in the course of "offending" others, I was given greater clarity on the issue. Some explained to me the scriptural basis for wearing the garments of the holy priesthood. Others explained the sense of pride they feel for having the honor of being part of that priesthood.

I'm not sure that I could have learned these things through a "respectful" conversation in EQ. For one, I'd hate to "infect" one of my ward brothers and sisters with my ignorance. Moreover, I'm acutely aware that people don't necessarily go to church for "deep doctrine." That's certainly not why I go. I go primarily for fellowship and worship.

So, in essence, I subject people on this board to more candor than is polite in person because I thought that this was the place for candid questions. And particularly, candid questions about the Church.

I think we would all agree that Sunday School is not the place for these questions/doubts/criticisms. So should I turn to the NOM or Ex-Mo board to find the answers?

A few months ago, I came on this board in a huff about ETB being the focus of this year's Teachings of the Prophets. I believed I termed it "2015: Year of the Racist." While that might have been hurtful to many of you, I could find no more succinct way to describe the hurt and betrayal that my wife felt when she found out about it and declared that she would not step back into the church until 2016 (a vow that she has unfortunately kept).

Interestingly, I've made peace with ETB through "duking it out" on these pages. And that is what I had hoped to find when I first came here -- a place to wrestle like Jacob with the "new and strange" doctrines of this Church.

Now, I'm not going to pretend that all of my sarcasm and mocking is in the spirit of "candid inquiry." Very often, I get carried away in just being combative. But I'm not sure that it's possible to have one without the other.

For instance, yesterday, Calmoriah called one poster a "spoiled brat" and chastised him for his "arrogant ignorance." This poster had glibly demeaned a lifetime of efforts by moderate feminists and she had just had ENOUGH. Now, if the most eloquent person on this board is subject to a moment of "candor," then there is no hope for the rest of us. If we're going to have meaningful conversations, then the price for that is contention from time to time.

However, as I see it, it's much better that Calmoriah calls me an "spoiled brat" than the equally arrogantly ignorant elder in her ward. And likewise, I think the people in my ward are grateful that I come here for my Jacobmania than to cause havoc on Sundays.

Just my two cents ...

It's very possible to be candid and still respectful and/or civil.

[williamsmith]

This board is likely the most cleanest, professional, respectful, etc. boards on the internet.

Of course, people are still human, and there still are anti-mormons here which are going to "rile" a person, that LDS might respond with some disrespect, sarcasm, etc.

But the board isn't perfect either, banning people sometimes when it's not deserved (such as simply telling someone you didn't appreciate how they treated you in one post, and then you're banned for it).

Or it's not perfect in that when it comes to religion or politics, such is very personal to people, and on either side, people have their firm views, and don't appreciate any sort of false degrading, or anything that goes against ones views and thus people respond.

 

Overall however, this has been likely the cleanest and most professional board I've ever seen that discuss these topics, and I've seen them all.

Really the issue is simply the Internet itself.  It allows people to not be restrained in what they say, so they often aren't.

[rodheadlee]

I don't think there is anyone here that if they invited me to a BBQ I wouldn't go to  unless you served Blood Pudding

This is what we need. A BBQ where board members can meet and greet. I belong to a sailing board that evolved from a board similar to this to meeting and becoming good friends with various members. It was a worldwide board and sometimes we would have a East and a West gathering on the same day. Putting faces to people helps a lot as well as communicating face to face. I don't communicate very well with a keyboard but I can talk your head off in real life.

[carbon dioxide]

I think what ward members think is completely irrelevant. But of course I say things that push boundaries at times or possibly employ sarcasm more than I should. I don't want people to be hurt by that and I recognize that I'm not perfect in my communication with others. Frankly, anyone who feels they are perfect in their communication may need to go back and take a second look.

There are things I have said in meetings that I now think were dumb and have regretted.  So I have limited my comments now I have fixed that problem.  If I make one comment a month, that is good enough.

Edited July 25, 2015 by carbon dioxide

[Scott Lloyd]

I have only now noticed this thread, and it saddens me.

Mystery Meat must make his own choice, and I respect it, but he has been an effective defender of truth here, and I don't recall any bad behavior on his part. I am unhappy with his choice and very much regret his leaving.

Moreover, defending the faith of the Latter-day Saints is, in and of itself, a noble, not a shameful, pursuit.

And though using an anonymous screen name is the order of the day on this board and elsewhere on the Internet, I find that posting under one's real identity carries with it a sense of accountability that is a disincentive to uncivil behavior.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Scott Lloyd