Rivers Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 The refiner's fire may feel like hell sometimes but if we endure to the end the results can be heavenly.Well the refiner's fire better hurry up and be done with.
The Nehor Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 Well the refiner's fire better hurry up and be done with.Live fast, die young, get out of the refiner's Fire quicker. 1
JAHS Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 Well the refiner's fire better hurry up and be done with.Agreed. I sometimes feel like KFC chicken.....extra crispy. 1
Teancum Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 When I joined the church 40 years ago, something I learned worried me a little and it has never gone away.It goes something like this:Lucifer rebelled against God and was thrust down to hell.Lucifer and his followers are here on earth.Therefore (I concluded), this must be hell. I know this appears to be very simplistic. However, in the temple we are told this is the telestial kingdom. I have always considered the telestial kingdom to be the equivalent of hell. Don't know why, just something I picked up in my youth. Why on earth would anyone choose to come to live in a telestial world? It's so bad it was thought an appropriate place to send Lucifer and his devils. Yet here we are.I just can't believe any of us are here by choice, meaning we chose to come here, rather than as a result of our choices.I understand about receiving a body etc, but that could have been done in a terrestrial world (it will be during the millennium).So, my thinking goes, we must have done something really bad in order to end up here as opposed to another place. We are in a telestial hell surrounded by and outnumbered by demons, and for most of us this is very unpleasant. Just wondered if anyone out there has similar thoughts, or can hopefully persuade me that this nagging suspicion I've had for 40 years is unfounded. No we are not in hell. We are in a natural world and have such a wonderful opportunity to live. And most of us who post here have a life far better than the rest of humanity both living and those in the past. Relish it, enjoy it and live it. There is not much life in the cosmos. You and I are incalculably fortunate to have this. If there is something more and after this life great! But we really don't know. So live your life best you can.
Ahab Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 No we are not in hell. We are in a natural world and have such a wonderful opportunity to live. And most of us who post here have a life far better than the rest of humanity both living and those in the past. Relish it, enjoy it and live it. There is not much life in the cosmos. You and I are incalculably fortunate to have this.If there is something more and after this life great! But we really don't know. So live your life best you can.All good except the part where you say we really don't know. How about amending that to some of us know and some of us don't. Collectively speaking, that's how we are on most if not all issues.
Teancum Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 All good except the part where you say we really don't know. How about amending that to some of us know and some of us don't. Collectively speaking, that's how we are on most if not all issues. Well in my opinion even though LDS love to say "I know" they really don't know. They have strong faith though. 1
ERayR Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 Well in my opinion even though LDS love to say "I know" they really don't know. They have strong faith though. My friend you know the adage about opinions. I also hav an opinion on this topic and it isn't the same as yours.
Teancum Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 My friend you know the adage about opinions. I also hav an opinion on this topic and it isn't the same as yours. YepI did say in my opinion which means just that does it not? I did not say I know you don't know. But that is quite different from yours and other LDS beleivers approach here. You think you KNOW I am wrong,
Ahab Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 YepI did say in my opinion which means just that does it not? I did not say I know you don't know. But that is quite different from yours and other LDS beleivers approach here. You think you KNOW I am wrong,Yes, because we know there is something more after this life, if by this life you are referring to our mortal life. There is both immortality and eternal life after this life. And this is indeed something some of us know that some others of us do not know at this point.And by us and we I am referring to all of us who are the same kind of being we are.
Teancum Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) Yes, because we know there is something more after this life, if by this life you are referring to our mortal life. There is both immortality and eternal life after this life. And this is indeed something some of us know that some others of us do not know at this point.And by us and we I am referring to all of us who are the same kind of being we are.Thus you prove my point. I say my opinion....but you know...not an opinion that you know.So do you know as discussed in Alma 32? If yes then I assume you have no need of faith? Edited June 27, 2015 by Teancum
VideoGameJunkie Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 This seems like a pretty good life to me, and I have faith that it gets even better. 1
Kenngo1969 Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) ... If there is something more and after this life great! But we really don't know. So live your life best you can.With due respect, while I agree with you that one should live one's life the best one can, and should get whatever joy one can out of living in this imperfect world for as long as one does so, the idea that "we don't really know" that there is a life after this one is nonsense. I know there is a life after this one: people I trust have caught glimpses of it. These people are reasonably sane, rational, intelligent people whom I know to be honest, they have been kind enough to share what they've glimpsed with me, and I believe them. Besides, I simply cannot buy, from a purely logical standpoint, the idea that this is all there is, that there was nothing before this life and that, possibly, there will be nothing after. Kindly include me out of your "we." Thank you. Edited June 27, 2015 by Kenngo1969
Kenngo1969 Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) Well in my opinion even though LDS love to say "I know" they really don't know. They have strong faith though.We went over this in the "Why I No Longer Say 'I Know'" thread, and I said much the same thing there. Perhaps you missed it. You're right that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who have reached that level of conviction should not use such that conviction as a brickbat with which to beat "mere believers" (my term) over the head. You're right that there is value in other levels of conviction, such as desiring to believe, belief, and hope. Wherever one finds himself on the spectrum, I hope he follows Alma's advice about letting that desire to belief, belief, and hope work in him. But that said, I don't see what good is served by demanding that someone who is elsewhere on that continuum water down his own conviction. Edited June 27, 2015 by Kenngo1969
Kenngo1969 Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 ... So do you know as discussed in Alma 32? If yes then I assume you have no need of faith?I agree with you that one should not profess, or pretend to, a knowledge one does not actually possess. However, in answer to your question, yes: some things I know; some things I believe; and some things I desire to believe, and I try to let that belief and that desire work in me until it becomes something stronger. But I make no apology for what I know, and I don't see the point of watering down my declarations simply so that someone else doesn't get his feelings hurt.
Kenngo1969 Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 In answer to the OP, Earth can certainly seem like hell, compared to where we left to come here and where we hope to go after we die. In any event, even if we've not experienced the stiff opposition to which others have referred, we're still "out of our element" here in mortality, because we're not essentially physical/mortal beings sent here to have occasional spiritual experiences; we're essentially spiritual beings sent here to have a mortal experience. That's why, to use Eliza R. Snow's phrase, we might feel that we're "strangers here" who "have wandered from a more exalted sphere"; and, to use Philip Paul Bliss's phrase, why we have a "longing for home."
janderich Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 That I can just about understand.However, it was even nicer before Lucifer showed up. In fact it was described as very good by the creator himself.If we had already defeated Satan once, why come here and try to do it all over again?You know, the more I consider this, the more ridiculous the "party line" seems to be.Someone mentioned multiple mortal probations. Although that concept fills me with apprehension (I do not want another mortal life - the very thought is horrific), it does make more sense to me.We come here to do it again because we need to grow in power. Those with a body have power over those who do not. In a way we cannot now understand it was worth it to step down from our more exalted sphere to earn a body. Elder Bednar gives us a glimpse of what this means: Our physical bodies make possible a breadth, a depth, and an intensity of experience that simply could not be obtained in our premortal estate. President Boyd K. Packer, President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, has taught, “Our spirit and our body are combined in such a way that our body becomes an instrument of our mind and the foundation of our character.” Thus, our relationships with other people, our capacity to recognize and act in accordance with truth, and our ability to obey the principles and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ are amplified through our physical bodies. (Things As They Really Are, Ensign June 2010)We need an instrument to magnify our abilities, to expand our relationships, to increase the depth of our experience. Apparently, it is worth it. Even Satan and his followers want a body, they just don't want to go about it the right way. I believe our step down to this mortal sphere depends upon where we were at before it. In other words, I stepped down to the Telestial kingdom because before this life my spirit was at a telestial level. Likewise others will step down to a Terrestrial sphere because they had more light and knowledge than me in the eternal world. Of course, this is a general statement and some, like Christ, chose to come to this Telestial realm to aid us, not because of specific merit. It will be a long time before we obtain our exaltation and perfect these bodies. We are clearly weak in this area.
Ahab Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 Thus you prove my point. I say my opinion....but you know...not an opinion that you know.So do you know as discussed in Alma 32? If yes then I assume you have no need of faith?I think an opinion can be either way, whether you know it or not. Like saying it's something you think, whether what you think is something you know or just something you are sure about. Faithh is to be sure about something, whether what you are sure about is something you know or just something that makes sense to you and you feel sure enough about it to lean in that direction even though you don't really know if you are right about that. People who know things still feel sure about what they know, so they still have faith on those things that they know. Alma was saying that faith is "dormant" at that point in the sense that their faith in what they know is something they just take for granted. It's something that is obvious to them. Like how I think of course there is something more after this life. There is immortality and eternal life. I am 100% sure on that point, and I don't have any doubts about that. It's something I know that is 100% obvious to me.
ERayR Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 YepI did say in my opinion which means just that does it not? I did not say I know you don't know. But that is quite different from yours and other LDS beleivers approach here. You think you KNOW I am wrong, I would be a poor advocate if that were not the case.
Tacenda Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 My niece has recently become a medium officially. She's already done dozens of readings. After reading the awesome reviews and seeing she has proven her stuff, it gives me hope! I have scheduled a reading with her on July 10th. If anyone has a non personal question I'll ask it, since I need some ideas. I've never done this sort of thing before.
Teancum Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 I would be a poor advocate if that were not the case. Or a more honest and introspective one.
ERayR Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 Or a more honest and introspective one. Are you questioning my honesty?
Ahab Posted June 28, 2015 Posted June 28, 2015 My niece has recently become a medium officially. She's already done dozens of readings. After reading the awesome reviews and seeing she has proven her stuff, it gives me hope! I have scheduled a reading with her on July 10th. If anyone has a non personal question I'll ask it, since I need some ideas. I've never done this sort of thing before.You could ask her to ask the dead person who she says she is talking to if he/she is in what we refer to as spirit prison or paradise. And how she can know if what that person is telling her is true.
JLHPROF Posted June 28, 2015 Posted June 28, 2015 My niece has recently become a medium officially. She's already done dozens of readings. After reading the awesome reviews and seeing she has proven her stuff, it gives me hope!I have scheduled a reading with her on July 10th. If anyone has a non personal question I'll ask it, since I need some ideas. I've never done this sort of thing before. Terrifying.
Tacenda Posted June 28, 2015 Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) Terrifying.Why is this terrifying? I'm going to assume you don't believe she can communicate with those on the other side. I've been a skeptic, but after reading the reviews and she is my niece, I know that she has held this gift in for far too long. Others make money on talents, I don't see the difference. Also, I'm assuming again, if you don't believe in this, how can you believe in feeling the spirit? Or, how can you believe those that say they see spirits in the temple. A former 1st counselor told me his wife saw someone she knew that died, in the temple. I've heard story after story of people being visited by those on the other side. My husband is the same way, yet how can he even say he believes there is a thin veil for example if he's adamant that there are no so called ghosts etc. Edited June 28, 2015 by Tacenda
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