Gray Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 Many mainstream Christians would probably respond to this question using some version of the cosmological argument. I think ultimately, from the perspective of Mormon theology, we'd have to defer to scientific rather than theological explanations, as Mormon theology does not seem to answer this question as far as I can tell. But I'd be interested in everyone's thoughts on the topic. 1
The Nehor Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 Mormonism tends to be more practical and summed up with: "We're here. Deal with it." 4
mfbukowski Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 The entire question is confused. We cannot even imagine what "nothing" would be in this context unless we view it as "something" defined by absence of all we know. We can only define it as " no light, no world, no life, no death ...... ad infinitum" In short we can only define "nothing" in terms of "something". By even using the word "nothing" we create it into a "something", just as the fact that unicorns are "real" in the sense that they are "imaginary". We all know what a unicorn would look like if it existed, but it does not. So we know what a unicorn "IS" which makes it automatically "something". Ultimately I am convinced that the whole concept of "nothing" is a kind of category mistake. I have trouble with the idea of "existence" just as much. That's just a very long repeat of what Nehor said above: Mormonism tends to be more practical and summed up with: "We're here. Deal with it." I am not going to lose sleep over the alleged "problem". 1
Calm Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 Because if there was nothing, we wouldn't be here to talk about it.
JAHS Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 To ask this question implies that something had a beginning. There was no beginning. There has been something in the eternal past and will continue to be something in the eternal future. Therefore the question of why it is here can't be answered. 1
Bobbieaware Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 Many mainstream Christians would probably respond to this question using some version of the cosmological argument. I think ultimately, from the perspective of Mormon theology, we'd have to defer to scientific rather than theological explanations, as Mormon theology does not seem to answer this question as far as I can tell. But I'd be interested in everyone's thoughts on the topic.According to 2 Nephi 2, existence is predicated upon the principle of opposition in all things, and the opposite of nothing is something. 1
Thinking Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Brings to mind the Billy Preston tune. Edited June 4, 2015 by Thinking 1
stephenpurdy Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 I think the answer to why everything exists in LDS theology is the same as the mainstream Christian answer to why God exists. It just does. -stephen
Sanpitch Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) If the question of something rather than nothing is ever solved I wish someone would work on light and distance. At the speed of light it could travel around the earth seven times in one second. Try to imagine how far it travels in one day, one week or one year. It's beyond my brain power, yet the distance to far away galaxies is measured in billions of year. It's not possible, I always explain things like that as I explain computers and smart phones, it's magic. Edited June 4, 2015 by Sanpitch
TheSkepticChristian Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Many mainstream Christians would probably respond to this question using some version of the cosmological argument. I think ultimately, from the perspective of Mormon theology, we'd have to defer to scientific rather than theological explanations, as Mormon theology does not seem to answer this question as far as I can tell. But I'd be interested in everyone's thoughts on the topic. An absolute beginning is a bigger problem because God has no time to create the universe, and a absolute beginning is a logical contradiction. Stephen Hawking explains why a Trinity God cannot exist and why creation ex nihilo is impossible Evangelical Apologists say that God exist outside time, but that is another logical contradiction. If God is outside time, he cannot think. To ask this question implies that something had a beginning. There was no beginning. There has been something in the eternal past and will continue to be something in the eternal future. Therefore the question of why it is here can't be answered. There is no eternal future. There is a difference between potential infinity and actual infinity. The future is a potential infinity, not an actual infinity. There are many paradoxes in a infinite universe, but a finite universe is a bigger problem. Because if there was nothing, we wouldn't be here to talk about it. but life is special, so that question is not meaningless. If the question of something rather than nothing is ever solved I wish someone would work on light and distance. At the speed of light it could travel around the earth in one second. Try to imagine how far it travels in one day, one week or one year. It's beyond my brain power, yet the distance to far away galaxies is measured in billions of year. It's not possible, I always explain things like that as I explain computers and smart phones, it's magic. That is nothing, our observable universe has about 10^82 atoms, but there are numbers out there that are very hard to imagine Edited June 4, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian
JLHPROF Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 To ask this question implies that something had a beginning. There was no beginning. There has been something in the eternal past and will continue to be something in the eternal future. Therefore the question of why it is here can't be answered. This. ^ Why does anything exist at all? That's an interesting question, but a completely pointless one. There is no option of nothingness. There never was and never will be. It's the realm of imagination, not even speculation. I guess I don't have that good an imagination.
Tacenda Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 This. ^Why does anything exist at all? That's an interesting question, but a completely pointless one. There is no option of nothingness. There never was and never will be. It's the realm of imagination, not even speculation. I guess I don't have that good an imagination.It's impossible to imagine it. I've often wondered what nothing would look like. And how it all began.
The Nehor Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 An absolute beginning is a bigger problem because God has no time to create the universe, and a absolute beginning is a logical contradiction. Stephen Hawking explains why a Trinity God cannot exist and why creation ex nihilo is impossible Evangelical Apologists say that God exist outside time, but that is another logical contradiction. If God is outside time, he cannot think. Only if you assume that thought requires time as it does for us and that this Universe is all that is. The Big Bang cosmology suggests that the Universe did not experience time until the Big Bang when time and space were created but it also says nothing of other creations and/or universes (assuming they exist). Stephen Hawking is giving an explanation for his conclusions in this clip. He is not "proving" anything. 3
Gray Posted June 4, 2015 Author Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) To ask this question implies that something had a beginning. There was no beginning. There has been something in the eternal past and will continue to be something in the eternal future. Therefore the question of why it is here can't be answered. Possibly, but at least in this universe time and expansion began 13.82 billion years ago. Before that there was no time, or indeed any "before". And of course since causality is time-dependent, things become difficult to conceptualize at the moment of the big bang. I say "this universe' but it may be the only one. Edited June 4, 2015 by Gray 1
Gray Posted June 4, 2015 Author Posted June 4, 2015 I think the answer to why everything exists in LDS theology is the same as the mainstream Christian answer to why God exists. It just does. -stephen Mainstream Christianity posits an eternal uncaused timeless creator who is responsible for the existence of everything. I think in this respect Mormonism has more in common with science (and indeed with modern atheists) than with Christianity. That is to say, we don't have an answer to the why of everything. Probably a good thing. 2
Gray Posted June 4, 2015 Author Posted June 4, 2015 This. ^ Why does anything exist at all? That's an interesting question, but a completely pointless one. There is no option of nothingness. There never was and never will be. It's the realm of imagination, not even speculation. I guess I don't have that good an imagination. Yes, when we talk of nothing, an important question is, what is nothing? Does it exist? Of course not, then it would be something instead of nothing. Even empty space isn't nothing, as it has a shape and certain other characteristics. Perhaps the definition of nothing would "that which is outside of the universe." That is to say, nothing is outside of the universe.
thesometimesaint Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 To the more science minded everything that exists in this universe is the chance result of the miniscule difference between matter and antimatter collisions formed at the Big Bang some 14 billion years ago. To the more religious minded it is because God made it that way.
Gray Posted June 4, 2015 Author Posted June 4, 2015 To the more science minded everything that exists in this universe is the chance result of the miniscule difference between matter and antimatter collisions formed at the Big Bang some 14 billion years ago. To the more religious minded it is because God made it that way. But God is not the author of ultimate existence in Mormon theology. God is more like a builder and a caretaker, an exalted human being working with matter that always existed.
mfbukowski Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 Possibly, but at least in this universe time and expansion began 13.82 billion years ago. Before that there was no time, or indeed any "before". And of course since causality is time-dependent, things become difficult to conceptualize at the moment of the big bang. I say "this universe' but it may be the only one. But this does not answer the question. Science cannot answer it. The question was "WHY" not "when" or "how". About the only answer possible is "because God wanted it". There. Done.
Gray Posted June 4, 2015 Author Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) But this does not answer the question. Science cannot answer it. The question was "WHY" not "when" or "how". About the only answer possible is "because God wanted it". There. Done. Yes, science can't answer the why. But I would argue that neither can LDS theology. Which I think is probably for the best, as "why" is probably the wrong question. The "why" answer of mainstream Christianity isn't really an answer. I can see the appeal, but it breaks down in a number of areas. Edited June 4, 2015 by Gray
thesometimesaint Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 But God is not the author of ultimate existence in Mormon theology. God is more like a builder and a caretaker, an exalted human being working with matter that always existed. At one point all matter and energy in this universe was in a very small place. Which does no violence to God using that in making it that way. SEE
mfbukowski Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 An absolute beginning is a bigger problem because God has no time to create the universe, and a absolute beginning is a logical contradiction. Stephen Hawking explains why a Trinity God cannot exist and why creation ex nihilo is impossible Evangelical Apologists say that God exist outside time, but that is another logical contradiction. If God is outside time, he cannot think. There is no eternal future. There is a difference between potential infinity and actual infinity. The future is a potential infinity, not an actual infinity. There are many paradoxes in a infinite universe, but a finite universe is a bigger problem. but life is special, so that question is not meaningless.Great post- it is important to realize again that Hawking's point only applies to the Trinitarian God whom Nietzsche correctly pronounced "dead" a long time ago. That is nothing, our observable universe has about 10^82 atoms, but there are numbers out there that are very hard to imagine Oh yeah. Heck I visualize 10^82 all the time. No problem there.
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