Hate And Anger

[Mystery Meat]

So I made the mistake of going to the exmormon group on Reddit yesterday. I had hoped (I don't know why) to find some kind words about L. Tom Perry. I suppose my goal was to see some solidarity and respect. Shame on me I guess...

 

Instead what I found was absolutely disgusting. The posts about Elder Perry were crass, mean and showed the vast, vast majority of the posters over there for what they are: terrible human beings (and no, I don't think that is an exaggeration).

 

What I don't get is why people let their anger, hate and bitterness destroy their lives. In the end they are hurting themselves more than anyone. Many of them haven't even considered themselves LDS for decades. After all these years, they still can't let go. While not all of those who leave the Church become so angry, those who do...man, I feel sorry for them. I know one such individual. She can't even muster positive thoughts about anything anymore and it is all the Church's fault in her mind. It is why her job, social, family, school, etc., is awful. 

 

It just blows my mind that people would continuously cut off their nose to spite their face so to speak.

[ALarson]

So I made the mistake of going to the exmormon group on Reddit yesterday. I had hoped (I don't know why) to find some kind words about L. Tom Perry. I suppose my goal was to see some solidarity and respect. Shame on me I guess...

I stay away from that group if at all possible, but sometimes I do end up reading bits and pieces over there when I'm doing a search on a specific topic.  I'm always sorry after reading a few entries.

 

I can't imagine saying anything bitter or angry about L. Tom Perry (???).  Wow, that's low.

 

However, to be fair, there is sometimes anger here too (and on most forums) on both sides of nearly every topic.  But people here have some class for the most part, and a respect for the other's right to their point of view or beliefs even if they disagree.

 

I'd like to think that I would enjoy associating with nearly everyone on here if they were in my ward (that might not go both ways, and that's ok too).

Edited June 1, 2015 by ALarson

[Avatar4321]

The thing is alot of them dont just reject the church. They reject the atonement and Christ as well.

It's Christ and His atonement that give us hope. He empowers us to forgive and let go.

Anger and hate are difficult to overcome with Christ sometimes. I can't imagine what it's like without Him.

[bluebell]

 

 

I'd like to think that I would enjoy associating with nearly everyone on here if they were in my ward (that might not go both ways, and that's ok too).

 

It goes both ways for me.  

[bluebell]

So I made the mistake of going to the exmormon group on Reddit yesterday. I had hoped (I don't know why) to find some kind words about L. Tom Perry. I suppose my goal was to see some solidarity and respect. Shame on me I guess...

 

Instead what I found was absolutely disgusting. The posts about Elder Perry were crass, mean and showed the vast, vast majority of the posters over there for what they are: terrible human beings (and no, I don't think that is an exaggeration).

 

What I don't get is why people let their anger, hate and bitterness destroy their lives. In the end they are hurting themselves more than anyone. Many of them haven't even considered themselves LDS for decades. After all these years, they still can't let go. While not all of those who leave the Church become so angry, those who do...man, I feel sorry for them. I know one such individual. She can't even muster positive thoughts about anything anymore and it is all the Church's fault in her mind. It is why her job, social, family, school, etc., is awful. 

 

It just blows my mind that people would continuously cut off their nose to spite their face so to speak.

 

Such people are pitiable.  Elder Perry would not have hard feelings toward such though and we have to try not to let their lack of humanity impact us either.  

[Calm]

The underlying basis of much anger is fear.

What they are likely afraid of I don't know.

[Tacenda]

I read through a couple of comments, I think they are upset at his conference talk about marriage only being between a man and a woman. And all others are counterfeit. It's always the SSM thing right?

[Avatar4321]

The underlying basis of much anger is fear.

What they are likely afraid of I don't know.

Pain is another basis for anger.

[Storm Rider]

I prefer not to hang around people who have no desire to find a better way or to search after happiness.  Why deal with strangers who demonstrate no desire for a better life.  For those that are seeking, then it is understandable to extend a hand, but for those who have wrapped themselves up in a shroud of anger, hate, and distrust, I don't feel the need to listen to them. 

[halconero]

I'll be honest, I sometimes go on /r/exmormon on reddit because I find their general obsessiveness over all things church related to be conducive to quick news about the church.

 

I agree though, the amount of vitriol spewed over the whole thing far outweighed any condolences for Elder Perry. This is why I'm certain that if we lived in a frontier society without law and order we would see the formation of mob rule and the physical persecution of the saints in quick order.

[Tacenda]

I'll be honest, I sometimes go on /r/exmormon on reddit because I find their general obsessiveness over all things church related to be conducive to quick news about the church.

I agree though, the amount of vitriol spewed over the whole thing far outweighed any condolences for Elder Perry. This is why I'm certain that if we lived in a frontier society without law and order we would see the formation of mob rule and the physical persecution of the saints in quick order.

I don't believe that, and you could put it on the other foot, TBM's are pretty angry at people that try and change the definition of marriage. Do you think they would go around physically hurting people? I think Avatar had it right, these people are vitriol for many reasons. Read some of the introduction stories on NOM. Learn something about where that anger/hurt might come from.

[ALarson]

Well, thank you bluebell!  I enjoy your posts on here

 

I do always try to remember that there is a person behind the words I read here and that most are just very good people trying to express their beliefs and opinions.  Just because we disagree doesn't make one bad and the other one good, just different (and both believe they are right!).

Edited June 2, 2015 by ALarson

[ALarson]

The underlying basis of much anger is fear.

What they are likely afraid of I don't know.

I think you may be right regarding some on there, but I honestly don't see much fear.  I think that many of them have had their families affected over the church (many of their family members are still active members), they are not able to attend close family member's weddings, some have been "cut off", and so on.  That's just my impression as to why many are so angry at the church and continue attacking it. Also, many are bitter or resentful because of all the years that they did believe and paid tithing and gave many hours of service and so on.  They feel they were deceived and are bitter.

 

I don't agree with feeling bitter and angry like that, but I try to understand.  I just don't like going over there and reading or feeling the anger and venum and I try to avoid it.

Edited June 2, 2015 by ALarson

[gclayjr]

I guess I will show my ignorance. Why does L. Tom Perry get selected for special treatment by exmormons?

 

Regards,

 

George Clay

[Calm]

Fear of loss of love or fear of isolation often transmutes to anger in family dynamics and to avoid greater anger/ distance from loved ones many find something else to blame for causing the distance, like the Church is often easier/less fearful to accept then believing one has a screwed up family (less likely to change in the latter case).

Why do people resent being deceived (as they see it)? Most often because they fear they've missed other opportunities if they haven't directly experienced pain.

Edited June 2, 2015 by calmoriah

[HappyJackWagon]

So I made the mistake of going to the exmormon group on Reddit yesterday. I had hoped (I don't know why) to find some kind words about L. Tom Perry. I suppose my goal was to see some solidarity and respect. Shame on me I guess...

 

Instead what I found was absolutely disgusting. The posts about Elder Perry were crass, mean and showed the vast, vast majority of the posters over there for what they are: terrible human beings (and no, I don't think that is an exaggeration).

 

What I don't get is why people let their anger, hate and bitterness destroy their lives. In the end they are hurting themselves more than anyone. Many of them haven't even considered themselves LDS for decades. After all these years, they still can't let go. While not all of those who leave the Church become so angry, those who do...man, I feel sorry for them. I know one such individual. She can't even muster positive thoughts about anything anymore and it is all the Church's fault in her mind. It is why her job, social, family, school, etc., is awful. 

 

It just blows my mind that people would continuously cut off their nose to spite their face so to speak.

That's really sad. I've never been over there and have no desire to go.

[ALarson]

Fear of loss of love or fear of isolation often transmutes to anger in family dynamics and to a lid greater anger/ distance from loved ones finding something else to blame for causing the distance like the Church is often easier/less fearful to accept then believing one has a screwed up family (less likely to change in the latter case).

Why do people resent being deceived (as they see it)? Most often because they fear they've missed other opportunities if they haven't directly experienced pain.

I agree with this too and like how you expressed it.  So, maybe their anger is mostly fear based when you put it the way you did.  Great analysis.

[The Nehor]

Pain is another basis for anger.

But Yoda said it was fear that leads to anger.

[Avatar4321]

I guess I will show my ignorance. Why does L. Tom Perry get selected for special treatment by exmormons?

 

Regards,

 

George Clay

I'm not sure he is. I think any of the twelve would get similar treatment.

[Avatar4321]

Fear of loss of love or fear of isolation often transmutes to anger in family dynamics and to a lid greater anger/ distance from loved ones finding something else to blame for causing the distance like the Church is often easier/less fearful to accept then believing one has a screwed up family (less likely to change in the latter case).

Why do people resent being deceived (as they see it)? Most often because they fear they've missed other opportunities if they haven't directly experienced pain.

Can you imagine how horrible they will feel when they learn we are telling the truth? Unless of course it happens in a way that brings healing and repentance.

[Mystery Meat]

I don't believe that, and you could put it on the other foot, TBM's are pretty angry at people that try and change the definition of marriage. Do you think they would go around physically hurting people? I think Avatar had it right, these people are vitriol for many reasons. Read some of the introduction stories on NOM. Learn something about where that anger/hurt might come from.

 

My point in starting this thread is that it doesn't matter where the anger or pain comes from or even if it is justified. Anger, hate and bitterness will ALWAYS destroy its carrier. No exceptions.

[Avatar4321]

But Yoda said it was fear that leads to anger.

I'm not disagreeing with master Yoda. I'm pointing out there is another path to the dark side:)

[Mystery Meat]

Can you imagine how horrible they will feel when they learn we are telling the truth? Unless of course it happens in a way that brings healing and repentance.

 

I think, whether in this life or the life to come, when many of them learn the truth and that the COJCOLDS had it right (mostly) it will cause them to feel even more angry and even more hate. That might not be fair, but I believe there will be many people who when they hear true doctrine and realize who and what God is they will truly decide they would rather not live in His presence. That could be for many reasons: maybe God truly is a polygamist and that doesn't sit well; maybe God truly does condemn homosexuality and people perceive that as being unfair; maybe the very fact that there is a God who let bad things happen to good people won't sit well. Regardless, I think some people will choke on their own pride and ignorance, decide they don't want to be like God, and damn themselves to a lower state of eternal existence. 

 

EDIT TO ADD: I think it was Brigham Young who said that God would forgive the devil if the devil were willing to repent. I think there is a lot of truth to that and I could see that being said of others in the next life.

 

I hope there aren't many like that, but it does a pose another interesting question: 

 

Is there anything about God (that has been taught in LDS theology previously) that would make me not want to dwell with Him if confirmed as true?

 

For me, I think the answer is no.

Edited June 2, 2015 by lvjd66

[SeekingUnderstanding]

I guess I will show my ignorance. Why does L. Tom Perry get selected for special treatment by exmormons?

 

Regards,

 

George Clay

 

Most of the comments on the exmormon subreddit have to do with his last general conference address in which he called gay and lesbian families counterfeit (at least that's how they take it).

Edited June 2, 2015 by SeekingUnderstanding

[Mystery Meat]

Most of the comments on the exmormon subreddit have to do with his last general conference address in which he called gay and lesbian families counterfeit (at least that's how they take it).

 

Yup. Although there are some who also think it is good that he is dead and who mock his passing because, as they say, he is a liar and fraud (for being a member of the 12) and has therefore contributed to their miserable state (loss of money, time, and yes, even sexual expression...they are an interesting group).