Nevo Posted April 29, 2015 Posted April 29, 2015 Sure. Isaac grew to dislike Joseph. 1834 is tough because there was criticism of Joseph concerning his translation and prophet status. he was being spoken about as if he was a religious fraud. So the one source, while interesting, can't really be considered an establishment of the point. I guess I don't really understand what you're looking for. Originally you asked ALarson to provide sources for the statement that Joseph's translation of the Book of Mormon used "the same stone and technique that Joseph used in his seeking hidden treasures." I provided a credible eyewitness source that says exactly that. Isaac Hale witnessed Joseph Smith using his stone to try to locate the Spanish silver mine in 1825 (Joseph and his father boarded at the Hale home) and saw him using a seer stone again, in the same manner, to translate the Book of Mormon. I'm not sure how this fails to establish the point. Do you think Hale just made it all up?
Nevo Posted April 29, 2015 Posted April 29, 2015 As much traveling as I've done to view Church historic sites, there is a great deal I haven't seen yet. My experience goes as far east as Nauvoo and the sites in Missouri. I've never seen KIrtland or anything in New York yet. Needless to say, I'm looking forward to this. Nauvoo is on my bucket list. But I think the New York sites will always take the prize. I loved seeing the Smith farm, the Grandin press, Alvin's grave, the Whitmer Farm, the Hill Cumorah. We were there in May. The surrounding country is absolutely gorgeous. Idyllic really.
Scott Lloyd Posted April 29, 2015 Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) Nauvoo is on my bucket list. But I think the New York sites will always take the prize. I loved seeing the Smith farm, the Grandin press, Alvin's grave, the Whitmer Farm, the Hill Cumorah. We were there in May. The surrounding country is absolutely gorgeous. Idyllic really.I do believe Nauvoo comes closer to being a living-history, Colonial Williamsburg type experience than any other Church historic site. Of course, I've not yet experienced anything in New York or Ohio. Edited April 29, 2015 by Scott Lloyd
stemelbow Posted April 29, 2015 Posted April 29, 2015 I guess I don't really understand what you're looking for. Originally you asked ALarson to provide sources for the statement that Joseph's translation of the Book of Mormon used "the same stone and technique that Joseph used in his seeking hidden treasures." I provided a credible eyewitness source that says exactly that. Isaac Hale witnessed Joseph Smith using his stone to try to locate the Spanish silver mine in 1825 (Joseph and his father boarded at the Hale home) and saw him using a seer stone again, in the same manner, to translate the Book of Mormon. I'm not sure how this fails to establish the point. Do you think Hale just made it all up? You got me what I was looking for. Thanks. I just commented generally. I don't see anything that contests that Joseph used the same technique for both ventures.
Damien the Leper Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 These pictures should be used in the missionary lessons, all Sunday school classes, etc. Janice Kapp Perry needs to write a primary song about.
Rivers Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 That would be a great primary song because the kids will have a lot of fun pretending to stick there faces into a hat. 2
Gray Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Nauvoo is on my bucket list. But I think the New York sites will always take the prize. I loved seeing the Smith farm, the Grandin press, Alvin's grave, the Whitmer Farm, the Hill Cumorah. We were there in May. The surrounding country is absolutely gorgeous. Idyllic really. Just don't go at the height of summer. The swamp may have been dredged but it still feels like a swamp. 2
Boanerges Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 I expect to be going there this summer or early fall when the Priesthood Restoration Site is dedicated. I expect I might be there as well.
cinepro Posted April 30, 2015 Author Posted April 30, 2015 Nauvoo is on my bucket list. But I think the New York sites will always take the prize. I loved seeing the Smith farm, the Grandin press, Alvin's grave, the Whitmer Farm, the Hill Cumorah. We were there in May. The surrounding country is absolutely gorgeous. Idyllic really.Did you notice any humming bees or sweet-singing birds? I've heard they come out around that time of year.
Nevo Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Did you notice any humming bees or sweet-singing birds? I've heard they come out around that time of year. No, I didn't notice the birds and the bees, but the Sacred Grove was lovely. One thing I do distinctly recall was an infestation of tiny black frogs covering the walkway leading to the Palmyra Temple. I've never seen anything like it.
Popular Post Wiki Wonka Posted April 30, 2015 Popular Post Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) One thing I do distinctly recall was an infestation of tiny black frogs covering the walkway leading to the Palmyra Temple. I've never seen anything like it. So this line from Joseph now makes more sense: "Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction". Meanwhile, in other news, the stone and hat images are now visible in the FairMormon Answers Wiki in the following locations: http://en.fairmormon.org/Question:_What_Church_sources_discuss_either_the_use_of_the_seer_stone_or_the_stone_and_the_hat_as_part_of_the_Book_of_Mormon_translation_process%3F#2015 http://en.fairmormon.org/Question:_Did_Joseph_Smith_use_his_own_seer_stone_to_translate_the_Book_of_Mormon%3F#Question:_Did_Joseph_Smith_use_his_own_seer_stone_to_translate_the_Book_of_Mormon.3F http://en.fairmormon.org/Question:_Why_are_people_concerned_about_Church_artwork%3F#Question:_Why_are_people_concerned_about_Church_artwork.3F And here are a couple that folks may not have seen yet: Edited April 30, 2015 by Wiki Wonka 5
Nevo Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Wow, I really stepped in it. I hereby retract posts #5, #16, #17, and #37. My hat's off to Brother Sweat. And kudos to Wiki Wonka for accurately captioning the artwork on the FairMormon Answers wiki. 3
Brian 2.0 Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Hats off, literally, to the church for doing this. It will be interesting to see when images like this get put into the sunday school manuals. Or in a church film. To see this action, or the visual of the breastplate and spectacles in use in a church film would be something else.
CV75 Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Nauvoo is on my bucket list. But I think the New York sites will always take the prize. I loved seeing the Smith farm, the Grandin press, Alvin's grave, the Whitmer Farm, the Hill Cumorah. We were there in May. The surrounding country is absolutely gorgeous. Idyllic really.Yes, it is. Bitingly cold in winter, though, where the face in the hat is more like this rendition:
Boanerges Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Did you notice any humming bees or sweet-singing birds? I've heard they come out around that time of year. Truth is early spring in upstate NY can be quite a mixed bag. I'd only say that the last few days have approached "beautiful" and "clear." Spring tends to be rainy and snowy. This year the favored April 6 date had snow. In fact, it just snowed last week. The earlier in the spring the more likely it is that it will not be beautiful or clear.
ALarson Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Hats off, literally, to the church for doing this. It will be interesting to see when images like this get put into the sunday school manuals. Or in a church film. To see this action, or the visual of the breastplate and spectacles in use in a church film would be something else.Yes, very cool Wiki Wanka (and the FairMormon website too)!! Thank you for posting the additional pictures. Brian, I agree that it will be great to see this depicted in any new church films on the translation (that will probably take awhile though). Or how about replacing the old pictures in the visitor centers with these new, more accurate ones? That would be really great
Calm Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Here's one more: I take a nap and you steal my chance of glory.
Calm Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) Wow, I really stepped in it. I hereby retract posts #5, #16, #17, and #37. My hat's off to Brother Sweat..It was so nice of him to give permission to FM to do this. Seems very dedicated to his work. Edited April 30, 2015 by calmoriah
nealr Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 I just want to say that I hope that having the images freely available does not discourage sales of the book. The artwork is landmark, but in some ways becoming an unfortunate distraction. The book itself is excellent (I've read the first 65ish pages so far). The story is being told very differently than usual. While I've long been familiar with the story about how Oliver Cowdery got involved, if you asked a couple days ago how Martin Harris got involved I wouldn't have known what to tell you. I don't recall that ever being laid out in detail before. If how Martin Harris got involved is hazy to you, you'll want to read this book. How about the Anthon transcript and all that jazz? Flushed out with more detail than I have ever seen before, and told in a whole new way--somewhat paradigm shifting, even. This is some really great history, told from a fully believing perspective, integrating the latest scholarship. We all should be willing to show some support for this by giving a little cash. Beyond that, though, if you think this is an exciting development for the sake of the artwork, or that fact that it talks frankly about the in the hat method of translation, or whatever, then you should buy this book. Want to send a message to the Church about the kind of history you want written and visually portrayed? Buy this book. The way this book sales will no doubt be taken as diagnostic of how much this kind of history is really sought after. In a rather literal way, this is a chance for everyone who gripes about how the Church portrays its history to put their money where their mouth is. Sorry if I sound like a sales man, but I really like this kind of history, and I want to see it continue, and so I want this book to sell well. 1
Wiki Wonka Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 I take a nap and you steal my chance of glory. Wonka can move pretty fast for an old guy. 1
canard78 Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 why? that is just psychology, there is nothing immoral about putting a stone in a hat. Just because the church doesn't publish that story in every Ensign cover doesn't mean it is wrong, the church can't publish everything.You completely missed the point of my post... Not surprising. Oh well
Tacenda Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 I want to say something that is going to come off bad probably. But the majority of members are going to be surprised at this display. Most members are in a bubble as far as real church history goes. You on this board and scholars etc that put this stuff out there, are like the one or two in the various wards that seem way more knowledgeable then the rest, even bishops and stake presidents. But I'm thankful for you, in the long run, the truth will be good.
Recommended Posts