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Stone holm

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Have been seeing posts about a open petition to demand that Harry Reid be excommunicated.  Is there really such a petition floating around amongst the right wing, and what are the grounds?

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Speaking generally because I see no reason to comment on an individual's membership status if it isn't being publicized by him/herself….

 

The whole idea that anyone would create a petition to drive an excommunication of anyone is repulsive to me and appears to me to be completely against the way the Church sets out policies to do things.

 

How would this be any different than something like Ordain Women?

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There is a petition out there.  Don't know if the individuals starting it or signing it are for real or not.  I hope not, but whatever, it is in really bad taste, totally inappropriate, etc.  And I am not going to link to it.

 

Dan Peterson comments about it here:

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2015/04/im-far-from-a-political-supporter-or-harry-reid.html

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Have been seeing posts about a open petition to demand that Harry Reid be excommunicated.  Is there really such a petition floating around amongst the right wing, and what are the grounds?

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/petition-for-the-excommunication-of-senator-harry

The people who wrote this petition are incredibly ignorant. This is politics masquerading as religion and the disguise was made by an utter incompetent.

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Have been seeing posts about a open petition to demand that Harry Reid be excommunicated.  Is there really such a petition floating around amongst the right wing, and what are the grounds?

 

If there is it is out of order.  That is between him and his stake president.

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If a member of the LDS church won't sign or support the petition but honestly believes Harry Reid to be a corrupt and despicable politician, regardless of any connection Reid has to the LDS church, does the fact that the member has such a low opinion of Reid place him or her in the same shameful company as those who produced and are promoting the petition?

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Petitions are becoming a much over used action, along with social media "campaigns" - the modern equivalent of the lynch mobs, romans at the gladiator games and those that drove the Mormons out of Missouri.  Its a form of bullying.  There are ways to criticize political actions of individuals - driving them from their church and affecting their social life isn't one of them.  If, ecclesiastically speaking he's in error, the appropriate people will no doubt eventually deal with it, its no one else's business.  Petitions like this diminish the value of petitions.     

 

If you don't agree with Senator Reid's actions, campaign politically against him.

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So a member is doing nothing wrong if he or she believes everything about Senator Reid that the producers of the petition do but thinks it's best to let the Lord handle Senator Reid's corruption in his own way and time.

 

I for one am appalled at Sen Reid's behavior on the Senate floor by his bearing false witness against another person... and then when challenged and proven wrong still continuing to hold to his position and not apologize, even in a recent interview, by shrugging it off... but... it is not for me to judge.  I agree, it is between him and his bishop and stake pres.  They will be the ones to judge and/or to take action.  I don't believe I'm doing anything wrong in noting and disapproving of Sen Reid's blatant false and very public charges for all the world to see...  judgment, however, rests with his priesthood leaders...

So, I do not approve of the petition...

 

GG

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I agree with others.  On my blog, when a bishop in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints criticized Senator Reid, I wrote that while I would likely be prone to disagree with most every word that comes out of Senator Reid's mouth with respect to politics or policy, his standing in the Church of Jesus Christ is between him, his leaders, and his Savior, that he's my brother, and that I love him.  In light of his recent "He didn't win, did he?" comment, I'm severely tempted to reevaluate that appraisal ... the operative word there being tempted.

 

https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2014/11/08/harry-reids-mormonism/

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So a member is doing nothing wrong if he or she believes everything about Senator Reid that the producers of the petition do but thinks it's best to let the Lord handle Senator Reid's corruption in his own way and time.

No , they just aren't committing the wrong that the petitioners are.

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One of the replies at ipetition was as follows:

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Aaron Peavler April 10, 2015 10:17 PM
he sold us out Democrats and Liberals are not of God they are of the Devil

Does this mean that the late President James Faust of the First Presidency was of the Devil?  Does Peavler realize that Faust was a very active Democrat, and that many righteous Mormons are now and have been Democrats?  Is Peavler aware that a number of currently serving Mormon and non-Mormon Republicans in Congress have publicly lied and dissembled?

 

This is the dumbest thread I have seen in a long while, and it is completely inappropriate.  I thought politics was off limits on this board.  Am I wrong?

 

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One of the replies at ipetition was as follows:

Does this mean that the late President James Faust of the First Presidency was of the Devil? Does Peavler realize that Faust was a very active Democrat, and that many righteous Mormons are now and have been Democrats? Is Peavler aware that a number of currently serving Mormon and non-Mormon Republicans in Congress have publicly lied and dissembled?

This is the dumbest thread I have seen in a long while, and it is completely inappropriate. I thought politics was off limits on this board. Am I wrong?

I am betting mods just haven't seen it yet. Or maybe they thought since everyone posting was disagreeing with petitioning and not debating the politics, it didn't need moderating (posters more or less doing that themselves).
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One of the replies at ipetition was as follows:

Does this mean that the late President James Faust of the First Presidency was of the Devil?  Does Peavler realize that Faust was a very active Democrat, and that many righteous Mormons are now and have been Democrats?  Is Peavler aware that a number of currently serving Mormon and non-Mormon Republicans in Congress have publicly lied and dissembled?

 

It means politics is one of the devil's best tools to stir up hatred and contention. Based on the Savior's words I am not convinced being right mitigates the offense in any way. I am not a fan of Harry Reid. I can see how things fell apart. He was a pretty moderate Democrat until thrust into a party leadership role. Then again I think Glenn Beck spews even more hatred and lies to a wider audience.

 

One almost wishes that those stirring up hatred and contention would just get on with killing each other and leave the rest of us alone instead of trying to recruit us to their devilish ways.

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One of the replies at ipetition was as follows:

Does this mean that the late President James Faust of the First Presidency was of the Devil?  Does Peavler realize that Faust was a very active Democrat, and that many righteous Mormons are now and have been Democrats?  Is Peavler aware that a number of currently serving Mormon and non-Mormon Republicans in Congress have publicly lied and dissembled?

 

This is the dumbest thread I have seen in a long while, and it is completely inappropriate.  I thought politics was off limits on this board.  Am I wrong?

In light of your post, I'm wondering if President Faust was a genuine liberal Democrst or something else. I say this because I found the following quote attributed to President Faust that indicates he wasn't a liberal Democrat and so I'm wondering if the quote is a genuine or if it's apocryphal:

"I am a conservative on fiscal and property matters, and I am liberal in terms of human values and human rights," Faust told his biographer, James P. Bell. "I believe what it says in the Book of Mormon, that the Lord values all of his children equally - black and white, bond and free, male and female, Jew and gentile - and that the Lord likewise has compassion for the heathen."As my views have evolved from stereotypical far-right republicanism to my current political philosophy I call "Enlightened Libertarian Reaganism."

If the above quote is authentic, I'm wondering if when President Faust says he's "liberal in terms of human values and human rights" if that means he was pro-choice on abortion and pro gay marriage? Your informed input will be appreciated.

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I don't think it's right to petition for someone's excommunication.

Fact is if Reid is as corrupt as some believe he has already severed himself from the Lord.

If not, who am I to advocate that he be severed from the Lord?

Either way, I don't have or want to determine his eternal destiny. The Lord can take care of it.

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In light of your post, I'm wondering if President Faust was a genuine liberal Democrst or something else. 

............................................................................................................  

If the above quote is authentic, I'm wondering if when President Faust says he's "liberal in terms of human values and human rights" if that means he was pro-choice on abortion and pro gay marriage? Your informed input will be appreciated.

Your questions and suggestions are inappropriate and tendentious.  Liberal and conservative are meaningless, emotive terms, which is why everyone conditions his position with specific exceptions and special definitions.

 

After serving a mission in Brazil, James Faust served in WW II in the U.S. Army Air Corps to the rank of 1st Lt.  He then obtained a law degree, practiced law, was an LDS bishop, stake president, and was President of the Utah Bar Assoc.  Wikipedia says:

 

Faust served in the House of Representatives for the 28th Utah State Legislature (1949) as a Democrat for Utah's eighth district. He also served as chairman of the Utah State Democratic Party and helped manage a campaign for Democratic Senator Frank Moss. In 1996, Faust was awarded with the Minuteman Award by the Utah National Guard.

Faust was appointed by U.S. President John F. Kennedy to the Lawyer's Committee for Civil Rights.

 

I like Peggy Fletcher Stack's rememberance in the Salt Lake Tribune, at http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_6605032 , where Democrats Nathan Eldon Tanner and Hugh B. Brown are counted among his mentors.

 

So much for Democrats being of the Devil.

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Your questions and suggestions are inappropriate and tendentious. Liberal and conservative are meaningless, emotive terms, which is why everyone conditions his position with specific exceptions and special definitions.

After serving a mission in Brazil, James Faust served in WW II in the U.S. Army Air Corps to the rank of 1st Lt. He then obtained a law degree, practiced law, was an LDS bishop, stake president, and was President of the Utah Bar Assoc. Wikipedia says:

Faust served in the House of Representatives for the 28th Utah State Legislature (1949) as a Democrat for Utah's eighth district. He also served as chairman of the Utah Statue Democratic Party and helped manage a campaign for Democratic Senator Frank Moss. In 1996, Faust was awarded with the Minuteman Award by the Utah National Guard.

Faust was appointed by U.S. President John F. Kennedy to the Lawyer's Committee for Civil Rights.

I like Peggy Fletcher Stack's rememberance in the Salt Lake Tribune, at http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_6605032 , where Democrats Nathan Eldon Tanner and Hugh B. Brown are counted among his mentors.

So much for Democrats being of the Devil.

Liberal and conservative are meaningless labels? Since when? You're going to get s lot of pushback from all sides with that one. The only way I could even begin to agree with that statement is if you mean to say there's no real difference between a genuine liberal and a phony conservative.

If Presdident Faust really did describe his political philosophy as being "enlightened Libertarian REAGANISM " (I'm not sure he did because it would be weird for a Democrat to describe himself as a "Reaganite" for Yours Truly, at least, it would be a great relief knowing he defined himself that way because it would be hard for me to believe a member of the First Presidency could, for example, believe in unlimited abortion rights - a deeply entrenched plank of the Democratic Party platform for many years - and still have the Spirit.

Is it tendentious.for me to say that if President Faust was anti-abortion then at least on that one point he was out of step with the mainstream of the Democratic Party? And if he really did describe himself as an adherent of "enlightened Libertarian Reganism" and "a conservative on fiscal and property matters" that this would also indicate he must have been out of step with the mainstreamof the Democratic Party on many other issues as well?

So if President Faust was a conservative Democrat that would come as a great relief to me personally. For in spite of your assertion to the contrary that conservative and liberal are meaningless labels, I don't happen to believe they are meaningless labels.

Now I'm off to see if President Faust really did describe himself as a "conservative on fiscal and propery matters" and a "Libertarian 'Reaganite'." If he didn't, then my apologies to you. But if he did describe his philosophy in that way, then at least in President Faust's case the terms Democrat and Republican do become meaningless. I'll let you know what I find.

Edited to add:

OK, I was able to verify the quote. I even found it in a Salt Lake Tribune article by Peggy Fletcher Stack. But it is true President Faust didn't think it was a good idea for Mormons to be a "one political party people." It appears he tried to be a more conservative "leaven of righteousness" in an otherwise increasingly more and more liberal Democratic Party. So I've said what I wanted to say and I'm out of the thread. Have to teach Gospel doctrine lesson 12 tomorrow, so I'm going to focus on that. All the best...

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