Spanish Fork Police Officers "hear A Voice" - Leads To Rescue Of Trapped Toddler

[smac97]

Here:

SPANISH FORK — Four Spanish Fork police officers all said they heard it.

"We've gotten together and just talkin' about it, and all four of us can swear that we heard somebody inside the car saying, 'Help,'" officer Jared Warner recalled Sunday.

But when they flipped the vehicle resting on its hood in the Spanish Fork River onto its side Saturday, they discovered there was no one inside able to speak.

"The only people in there were the deceased mother and the child," said officer Bryan Dewitt.

"We're not exactly sure where that voice came from," Warner told the Deseret News.

But because of the actions of those officers and several Spanish Fork firefighters, 18-month-old Lily was rescued. She remained at Primary Children's Hospital Sunday in critical condition but was reported to be stable.

Police belive Lily was upside down, strapped in her car seat for up to 14 hours. Her mother, Lynn Jennifer "Jenny" Groesbeck, was killed in the crash.

...

Groesbeck, 25, was driving home to Springville from Salem, where she had been visiting her parents. She was killed about 10:30 p.m. Friday when her car went off the road where Arrowhead Trail connects with Main Street. What caused the car to go off the road was still under investigation Sunday. Because of where the vehicle landed, it was difficult for anyone to see the wreck from the street above.

Fourteen hours later, about 12:30 p.m. Saturday, a fisherman spotted the vehicle and called police.

Dewitt was one of the first officers to arrive. The incident was originally reported as a possible abandoned vehicle in the river. But as he got closer, he said he could see the mother inside. Three more officers arrived almost simultaneously at the river.

And that's when they heard a voice.

"We were down on the car and a distinct voice says, 'Help me, help me,'" Dewitt recalled.

"It wasn't just something that was just in our heads. To me it was plain as day cause I remember hearing a voice," officer Tyler Beddoes said. "I think it was Dewitt who said, 'We're trying. We're trying our best to get in there.'

"How do you explain that? I don't know," he said, adding that the voice didn't sound like a child.

"It was a positive boost for every one of us because I think it pushed us to go harder a little longer. I don't think that any one of us had intended on flipping a car over that day," Beddoes said. "We know there was some other help there, getting us where we needed to be."

When the officers flipped the car onto its side, that's when they realized that a child was still inside.

"I was terrified there was a little baby," Dewitt said. "My initial instinct was that she was dead. When we were able to cut her out, pass her out, the first thing I saw was her eyes fluttering. So it was kind of a positive sign of life for me, at least. But knew she wasn't out of harm's way, either."

...

Lily was improving Sunday, according to Jill Sanderson, Groesbeck's sister.

...

But as Sanderson and her family were thankful that Lily's life was saved, they were also mourning Sunday the loss of her mother.

...

Several of the firefighters who jumped in the river, which was 10 feet deep in places, were treated at a hospital Saturday for hypothermia.

Here is also this question posed by a commenter after the article:

 

It's a heartwarming story. But why is god, a heavenly father, so hit and miss on this stuff? Given credit here for being able and willing to intervene in the lives of individuals, god doesn't prevent the problem, but lends a hand after the fact? And then we have a planet of war and genocide on which god either remains silent or is given credit for enabling it? I don't know if god exists or not. If so, he's got some interesting priorities.

Here are my thoughts about that:

-I don't think we can fully comprehend how or why God does, or does not, do things in terms of intervening in the lives of His children. We simply lack the perspective and wisdom necessary to understand such things.

-I think our limited perspective makes it a bit too easy to put God into a no-win scenario. If God does not intervene to prevent all harm, then either A) He does not exist, or B) He is capricious ("hit and miss" as the commenter put it) and therefore flawed/limited/evil. There is, though, a third option: That God has a plan which includes vital concepts such as agency, a fallen world, life beyond this mortal existence, an atoning sacrifice, communication between God and man, and so forth. These concepts help me understand that God's "macro" plan is in place. So I cannot always understand this plan's implementation at a specific, "micro" level, such as the tragic death of the child's mother, or even some "meso"-level events such as the horrors of famine and disease, of atrocities, of natural disasters, etc. Some of these events can be attributed to the wickedness of men and combinations of men, or to confluences of events and circumstances. Some cannot, and it is these inexplicable, seemingly random tragedies that can try our faith the most. Nevertheless, being aware that there is a greater plan helps me navigate difficult questions about why bad things happen to good people, good things happen to bad people, etc.

-I believe the men described in the article could have heard a voice, and that this voice was a prompting from God.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited March 9, 2015 by smac97

[bluebell]

Thank you for posting this.  I read about this incident yesterday in the news but it didn't talk about the officers involved or them hearing a voice.  I have a 21 month old and a 7 month old and these kinds of stories are difficult for me to read about because i can't help but imagine my own children in similar circumstances.  I felt horribly yesterday reading about what that little girl must have gone thru upside down alone like that for so long.  

 

But hearing about the experience of the men reminds me (and gives me hope) that God does not let children suffer alone and that He intervenes to the fullest extent that He can while still having His will be done.  And I don't think we know even a fraction of all the ways that He comforts little ones (or big ones!) in desperate circumstances.

[Avatar4321]

I happen to know someone with the same last night, is the father named anywhere? Were the parents married?

[bluebell]

I haven't seen anything that mentioned a father.

[Scott Lloyd]

Here:

Here is also this question posed by a commenter after the article:

Here are my thoughts about that:

-I don't think we can fully comprehend how or why God does, or does not, do things in terms of intervening in the lives of His children. We simply lack the perspective and wisdom necessary to understand such things.

-I think our limited perspective makes it a bit too easy to put God into a no-win scenario. If God does not intervene to prevent all harm, then either A) He does not exist, or B) He is capricious ("hit and miss" as the commenter put it) and therefore flawed/limited/evil. There is, though, a third option: That God has a plan which includes vital concepts such as agency, a fallen world, life beyond this mortal existence, an atoning sacrifice, communication between God and man, and so forth. These concepts help me understand that God's "macro" plan is in place. So I cannot always understand this plan's implementation at a specific, "micro" level, such as the tragic death of the child's mother, or even some "meso"-level events such as the horrors of famine and disease, of atrocities, of natural disasters, etc. Some of these events can be attributed to the wickedness of men and combinations of men, or to confluences of events and circumstances. Some cannot, and it is these inexplicable, seemingly random tragedies that can try our faith the most.

-I believe the men described in the article could have heard a voice, and that this voice was a prompting from God.

Thanks,

-Smac

Thanks for posting this. A remarkable story.

 

Two things:

 

Excellent analysis. Perhaps the best I've seen on this question.

 

Second thing, I'm not discounting the possibility or likelihood of God intervening in a miraculous way. But has anyone considered the possibility that the mother survived long enough for the officers to hear her call out for help but died before they were able to reach her?

[smac97]

Second thing, I'm not discounting the possibility or likelihood of God intervening in a miraculous way. But has anyone considered the possibility that the mother survived long enough for the officers to hear her call out for help but died before they were able to reach her?

From the article (speaking of the child): "Her mother, Lynn Jennifer 'Jenny' Groesbeck, was killed in the crash."

Thanks,

-Smac

[KevinG]

I saw a cartoon recemtly where Jesus and a man were sitting on a park bench. The man asks "why do you allow so much cruelty and suffering?" And Jesus responds "I was just about to ask you the same thing."

[smac97]

Here's another article about this:

An 18-month-old surviving a 14-hour ordeal strapped into her car seat with the car upside down in the Spanish Fork River is just one element of a continually developing story that first broke Saturday.

When first responders and police officers arrived at the scene, near the junction of Main Street and Arrowhead Trail Road, they began wondering how to roll the car over from its upside-down position.

The large vehicle was a Dodge four-door passenger car, and at the time they had no idea what or who was in the car.

“It was at that time we heard a distinct female voice from the car saying, ‘help me, help us,’ and that is when we said, ‘We’re trying to help you. We’re trying our best to get you out,’” said Officer Tyler Beddoes with the Spanish Fork Police Department.

Hmm. So it was a female voice. That's a new detail. I wonder if this will trigger speculation about female guardian angels.

 

Seven men turned the car over, not an easy task since the vehicle wasn’t economy sized.

What they found after looking into the vehicle was a woman who looked like she was killed on impact, and a baby who was unconscious and not breathing, Beddoes said.

“After the chaos, after everything was done, we were all talking to each other,” Beddoes said. “And yeah, we heard the same voice. We heard a voice, a distinct voice.”

By his own admission, Beddoes is not very active in his LDS Church ward. But the religious aspect of Saturday's event has crossed his mind. He said it is the first time he has ever had such an experience.

“As far as what we did and what we heard, it’s hard to wrap our minds around it,” Beddoes said. “It was kind of eerie. I don’t know what it was. The mother couldn’t speak.”

I met Tyler a few times several years ago. He was the grandson of a client of mine. I wonder if this will lead to some sort of religious/spiritual epiphany for him. I hope so.

 

The infant, Lily Groesbeck, is in stable but critical condition at Primary Children’s Hospital in Salt Lake City. She was airlifted to the facility after being transported by ambulance to Mountain View Hospital in Payson.

“So far, she is doing remarkably well,” said Jill Sanderson, the infant’s aunt. “The doctors are hopeful at this point, but the next 48 to 72 hours will be critical.”

Sanderson’s younger sister and Lily’s mother, 25-year-old Lynn Jennifer Groesbeck, died in the crash.

“She was a very compassionate, caring person, always willing to bend over backwards for her loved ones,” Sanderson said. “She had a positive impact on a lot of people’s lives.

"She loved her baby with all of her heart and was thrilled to be a mother.”

My condolences to her family.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited March 9, 2015 by smac97

[Nofear]

I confess that I entertain the option that the female voice heard was still the mother's (though she had perished with the initial impact) as opposed to a third party guardian angel.

[smac97]

I confess that I entertain the option that the female voice heard was still the mother's (though she had perished with the initial impact) as opposed to a third party guardian angel.

Poignant.

Thanks,

-Smac

[bluebell]

My first thought was that the voice was the mother's but not because she was still alive.

Had I been in a similar situation death would not force me to leave my baby behind. I would beg to stay until she also died or help came.

[MorningStar]

My sister-in-law grew up with the mother who died.  Very sad.    What a miracle though that her little girl lived!

[Scott Lloyd]

From the article (speaking of the child): "Her mother, Lynn Jennifer 'Jenny' Groesbeck, was killed in the crash."

Thanks,

-Smac

This is ambiguous.

 

"Killed in the crash" may or may not mean killed instantly in the crash.

 

Edited to add:

 

I see that other accounts say she looked like she was killed on impact. Still, I wonder. Why are they so certain she was killed on impact?

 

I'm as willing as anyone to accept that the supernatural occurred here. I'm just trying to consider all the possibilities.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[smac97]

This is ambiguous.

 

"Killed in the crash" may or may not mean killed instantly in the crash.

Since there was a 14-hour gap between the crash and the discovery of the child, I don't think we can read "killed in the crash" any other way than the mother have passed well before the first responders found the vehicle and heard "a distinct female voice from the car saying, ‘help me, help us,’"

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

"Why are they so certain she was killed on impact?"

Probably the type of injuries she suffered....also possible rigor mortis, body temp and other ways they identify time of death.

[Nofear]

If they take the liver temp or such they can identify time of death. Supernatural vs mother tenaciously holding on to life, still touching either way.

[bluebell]

"Why are they so certain she was killed on impact?"

Probably the type of injuries she suffered....also possible rigor mortis, body temp and other ways they identify time of death.

 

From one of the articles i read earlier, it also said that the river was flowing thru the car but that the baby was suspended above it.  If that's accurate, then perhaps they were sure the mother was dead because she was seat belted into her seat under the water.

 

My other thought was as you said-the type of injuries she sustained.  There are obviously certain injuries that you can just look at, without any other information, and know that the person died instantly from it.

[Scott Lloyd]

This thought just occurred to me.

 

So long as we are considering the supernatural, suppose that, for a brief moment, the child in the car was given temporary utterance, long enough to alert the officers by calling, "Help me! Help us!" That would account for the very real, auditory experience of each of the officers in the incident as distinguished from a strong spiritual prompting or a mental sensation.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

From one of the articles i read earlier, it also said that the river was flowing thru the car but that the baby was suspended above it.  If that's accurate, then perhaps they were sure the mother was dead because she was seat belted into her seat under the water.

 

My other thought was as you said-the type of injuries she sustained.  There are obviously certain injuries that you can just look at, without any other information, and know that the person died instantly from it.

Well, yes, that's what I supposed. But I wasn't certain, so I asked.

[Scott Lloyd]

Since the subject of guardian angels has come up here, I thought I would post this relative to LDS belief pertaining to that subject.

 

Scroll down to the question: "Is there any truth to the idea that we have guardian angels who watch over and protect us?"

Edited March 9, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[bluebell]

This thought just occurred to me.

 

So long as we are considering the supernatural, suppose that, for a brief moment, the child in the car was given temporary utterance, long enough to alert the officers by calling, "Help me! Help us!" That would account for the very real, auditory experience of each of the officers in the incident as distinguished from a strong spiritual prompting or a mental sensation.

 

Could be!

 

Though I think one of the officers said the voice was not that of a child. 

[Scott Lloyd]

Could be!

 

Though I think one of the officers said the voice was not that of a child. 

Under certain circumstances, the voice of a toddler could be indistinguishable from a female voice.

 

By the way, this baby was 18 months old, nearly old enough to start speaking in simple sentences.

[bluebell]

Under certain circumstances, the voice of a toddler could be indistinguishable from a female voice.

By the way, this baby was 18 months old, nearly old enough to start speaking in simple sentences.

Cognitively though, saying "help US" would be pretty impressive. Most babies don't understand simple pronouns until 2 1/2 and the concept of "us" is even more difficult.

Still. Miracles happen.

[mfbukowski]

Four Spanish Fork police officers all said they heard it.

I don't understand the need for Fork officers.

What if you want to use a spoon?

And it is clearly racist that they even mentioned that these useless officers were Spanish

[JLHPROF]

I posted this story on facebook - my cyncial sister asked "what if they missed another person"...