What Was The "lesson" Of Nauvoo?

[Uncle Dale]

I've thrice visited Hancock County -- the first times before the

modern version of the temple was erected -- and the last, just

as the first waves of increased tourism were beginning to appear.

 

My own family's farm was located at Bear Creek -- and is now

nothing but a cow-path, trees and a scattering of pasture land.

I have no special ties to Nauvoo itself -- it has not been a site

of pilgrimage for me.

 

But I recall a Utah family, lined up to buy ice-cream cones in the moist

heat of summer -- fanning their brows and excitedly exchanging opinions

amongst themselves as to what was "the most wonderful thing" their

eyes were drinking in.

 

For those of you who have stopped by, and were truly filled with

wonder (and for the rest, who merely savor the fine photography

now and then reproduced in Ensign articles) -- What was the point?

 

Why go to all the effort to build a city that the leaders themselves

admitted would soon be abandoned (when the Saints would become

"a great and mighty people" in the "Rocky Mountains")?

 

The Nauvoo House still stands, barely 10% finished, and that minor 

fulfillment of prophecy mostly due to the efforts of Major Bidamon,

a Gentile who had no reason to set aside a wing of the contemplated

world-class hotel for the perpetual, exclusive use of his adopted kin --

Joseph Smith's descendants (see LDS D&C).

 

What lesson do you take away from contemplation of that time and place?

 

UD

[Duncan]

I look at it like a  patient living in the hospital, you aren't great but you are getting better and out of the situation that put you there i.e the troubles of Missouri, they were gaining strength

[KevinG]

A season of peace in the midst of challenges.

The power and authority of the priesthood does not reside in one man alone.

Gods purposes may be fulfilled over longer periods of time than a single generation.

...and as many individual lessons as the faithful Saints took from their experience.

[cinepro]

What lesson do you take away from contemplation of that time and place?

 

UD

 

I think the "point" for many LDS is that Nauvoo was the last place Joseph and Hyrum lived, and the place where the Temple ceremonies were introduced.  I'm currently reading "Nightfall at Nauvoo", and it really is interesting to consider all the dynamics of the personalities and events that occurred there. 

[Uncle Dale]

I think the "point" for many LDS is that Nauvoo was the last place Joseph and Hyrum lived, and the place where the Temple ceremonies were introduced.  I'm currently reading "Nightfall at Nauvoo", and it really is interesting to consider all the dynamics of the personalities and events that occurred there. 

 

Probably for Saints who migrated to Utah, the building's completion

(to the point of allowing for endowments, at least), was the intention

for the Nauvoo Temple in the first place -- and that it was never

planned to be a permanent 19th century residence of The Almighty.

 

But, of course there were Mormons who never went West and

who never left the vicinity of Hancock County. Mother Lucy Smith,

for example. She might have been assisted in a removal to Utah;

safe and secure -- no horrors of pulling a handcart, barefoot,

through the snows of winter. But she disobeyed Brigham's plans.

 

For her, and for those Saints who never believed God had

commanded a migration westward, Nauvoo meant something

else -- a watershed decade in the history of a movement in

the process of fragmentation. The Whitmerites, Hedrickites

and many of the first Josephites never made it to Hancock

County, in the first place, and could have not sustained all

that went on there.

 

Those converts who moved to the "City of Joseph," making

permanent homes and planning on a rich lifetime of family

associations there, must have been bewildered at the demise

of that "stake of Zion." Was it due to their own unworthiness?

Was God cursing them? Should they have gathered in greater

numbers and occupied the region, like Joshua did Canaan?

Or, was the entire experiment a mistake and a tragedy?

 

I have no final opinion. But I know some folks value the spot

as one of the great holy sites of all seven dispensations --

so, I'll try to listen to their experiences more carefully than usual.

 

UD

[Avatar4321]

The lesson is that God is with His saints no matter where we are driven or for how long.

That the powers of heaven are active in the world.

That the testimony of the restoration has been n sealed with innocent blood and will ever stand as a witness that God is mindful of us and is doing a work these lattes days.

[why me]

 

What lesson do you take away from contemplation of that time and place?

 

UD

Nauvoo was a revolutionary moment for Mormonism. It was a time of great change in the mormon faith. And it was a time of great hope. And it was a time of possiblities. The revolutionary moment came with doctrine and ordinances Change came from immigration and with the death of two of the leaders.  And possibilities came from a new city and the possibilty to live the faith freely. Mormons should be proud of the nauvoo experience regardless of its difficulties as a place among gentiles.

Edited February 6, 2015 by why me

[The Nehor]

"Everyone said we were daft to build a temple in the swamp but we built it anyways....just to show them. It burned down, fell over, and sank into the swamp. So we waited over a century for safety codes to be updated and built another temple and this one stayed up and that is what we get. The best temple in the land.

Now marry that girl so we can get better land."

[ALarson]

I don't know if there is an actual "lesson", but I know that many associate the Nauvoo period with the introduction of polygamy (among other things already mentioned like the temple, etc.).

 

I have often wondered what that period would have been like without the principle of polygamy that was lived by Joseph and others there.

Edited February 6, 2015 by ALarson

[Uncle Dale]

"Everyone said we were daft to build a temple in the swamp but we built it anyways....just to show them. It burned down, fell over, and sank into the swamp. So we waited over a century for safety codes to be updated and built another temple and this one stayed up and that is what we get. The best temple in the land.

Now marry that girl so we can get better land."

As I recall, the original temple was built upon the highest spot

and could be seen for many miles, by travelers approaching

that great bend in the river by steamer.

But yes, the swamp was there. Folks still hadn't quite figured

out what caused malaria, but many of the Saints got to

experience it and other swamp diseases directly, including

members of the Rigdon and Smith families. Rigdon was

vain enough to move into the best house in Commerce,

but it sat near the boat landing and the mosquitos.

Evidently God didn't warn Elder Rigdon's mother, nor

provide Joseph Smith with the power to heal her. I'm told,

however, that thousands did recover, after the laying on

of hands, by President Smith, personally. So, perhaps

those strong in the faith were rewarded for their piety.

Perhaps that was the lesson of Nauvoo -- that those who

were unwavering, and who could make it through the

events of that time and place (and not follow Strang)

were indeed fully tested, endowed, and made ready

for the great trek westward.

UD

Edited February 6, 2015 by Uncle Dale

[USU78]

When ones lives through an Exodus of biblical proportions, one has a choice:

 

1. Feel about the place one exited from as a benighted hellhole; or

2. Feel about the place as the Garden of Eden, diligently to be sought after.

 

Both have scriptural precedents, and people had good cause to espouse either the one or the other or both.

 

How you feel about it in the first generation tells us everything we need to know about the kind of person you are.

 

How the 4th and 5th and 6th generations feel about it tells us a lot about the denizens of those latter generations.

 

My (5th) generation looks fondly on the place and happily followed my parents' (4th) generation's lead in recovering the dirt and rebuilding the temple and visiting/restoring the ancestors' homes to the extent they could be.

 

Place is a museum now instead of a cowpasture.

 

I like museums.

[Uncle Dale]

When ones lives through an Exodus of biblical proportions, one has a choice:

 

1. Feel about the place one exited from as a benighted hellhole; or

2. Feel about the place as the Garden of Eden, diligently to be sought after.

 

Both have scriptural precedents, and people had good cause to espouse either the one or the other or both.

 

How you feel about it in the first generation tells us everything we need to know about the kind of person you are.

 

How the 4th and 5th and 6th generations feel about it tells us a lot about the denizens of those latter generations.

 

My (5th) generation looks fondly on the place and happily followed my parents' (4th) generation's lead in recovering the dirt and rebuilding the temple and visiting/restoring the ancestors' homes to the extent they could be.

 

Place is a museum now instead of a cowpasture.

 

I like museums.

I guess, then, that the early 1840s expectations of some converts --

that Christ would descend from the clouds, with 144,000 saved

disciples from the past, to that peculiar spot across the river from

Montrose, has been quietly retired?

Good thing too -- the 1843 failure of Millerism opened the eyes

of many overly-hopeful second adventists. President Smith

reportedly said that he could not comprehend how so many

thousands of deluded religious fanatics could believe and

follow after an obviously false prophet (Rev. Miller, I guess).

A museum? Pity the sacred storehouse now lacks the very

handwriting of Father Abraham upon papyrus, which once

drew in the curious Gentiles, at two-bits a look-see...

UD

[Michael13365]

First, Uncle Dale, I want to thank you for the great resources you've put on your website, solomonspalding.com. I drew on it on many occasions in writing my recently published historical novel on the life of Joseph Smith, as seen through the eyes of his sister Sophronia. Although I am not a Mormon, I have long been fascinated by Joseph and am hopeful that my fictional view of him will allow readers of all beliefs to see him in human terms - as neither a demigod nor a charlatan.

As to Nauvoo, I see that as a time when Joseph began to lose his way and when Sophronia tried to bring him back to the innocence and purity of his original vision. I see him as growing uncomfortable with the idolizing he received from his followers in those years - and yet unable to break free of the image they had of him. I imagine Sophronia challenging him whenever she could, while never losing faith in him.

http://www.amazon.com/True-History-Joseph-Smith-ebook/dp/B00SSBDB4U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423144958&sr=8-1&keywords=The+true+history+of+joseph+smith

[The Nehor]

First, Uncle Dale, I want to thank you for the great resources you've put on your website, solomonspalding.com. I drew on it on many occasions in writing my recently published historical novel on the life of Joseph Smith, as seen through the eyes of his sister Sophronia. Although I am not a Mormon, I have long been fascinated by Joseph and am hopeful that my fictional view of him will allow readers of all beliefs to see him in human terms - as neither a demigod nor a charlatan.

As to Nauvoo, I see that as a time when Joseph began to lose his way and when Sophronia tried to bring him back to the innocence and purity of his original vision. I see him as growing uncomfortable with the idolizing he received from his followers in those years - and yet unable to break free of the image they had of him. I imagine Sophronia challenging him whenever she could, while never losing faith in him.

http://www.amazon.com/True-History-Joseph-Smith-ebook/dp/B00SSBDB4U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423144958&sr=8-1&keywords=The+true+history+of+joseph+smith

Do we have rules against shilling?

[Avatar4321]

Another good lesson: dont trust a politicians promise

[Ham Clam]

First, Uncle Dale, I want to thank you for the great resources you've put on your website, solomonspalding.com. I drew on it on many occasions in writing my recently published historical novel on the life of Joseph Smith, as seen through the eyes of his sister Sophronia. Although I am not a Mormon, I have long been fascinated by Joseph and am hopeful that my fictional view of him will allow readers of all beliefs to see him in human terms - as neither a demigod nor a charlatan.

As to Nauvoo, I see that as a time when Joseph began to lose his way and when Sophronia tried to bring him back to the innocence and purity of his original vision. I see him as growing uncomfortable with the idolizing he received from his followers in those years - and yet unable to break free of the image they had of him. I imagine Sophronia challenging him whenever she could, while never losing faith in him.

http://www.amazon.com/True-History-Joseph-Smith-ebook/dp/B00SSBDB4U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423144958&sr=8-1&keywords=The+true+history+of+joseph+smith

Your book looks interesting. I'm curious how an outsider would write an LDS historical fiction novel. Did you self-publish?

You've hit up the people at the Association for Mormon Letters, right? That's were you will right all the LDS writers/artists/film makers, ect.

They have a Facebook Page, Blog, and Podcast. I think the AML is for Mormons (who make anything) and non-Mormons (who write things about the LDS faith). I don't think they have a chat board like this, but you could e-mail some people and such.

[Uncle Dale]

First, Uncle Dale, I want to thank you for the great resources you've put on your website, solomonspalding.com. I drew on it on many occasions in writing my recently published historical novel on the life of Joseph Smith, as seen through the eyes of his sister Sophronia. Although I am not a Mormon, I have long been fascinated by Joseph and am hopeful that my fictional view of him will allow readers of all beliefs to see him in human terms - as neither a demigod nor a charlatan.

As to Nauvoo, I see that as a time when Joseph began to lose his way and when Sophronia tried to bring him back to the innocence and purity of his original vision. I see him as growing uncomfortable with the idolizing he received from his followers in those years - and yet unable to break free of the image they had of him. I imagine Sophronia challenging him whenever she could, while never losing faith in him.

http://www.amazon.com/True-History-Joseph-Smith-ebook/dp/B00SSBDB4U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423144958&sr=8-1&keywords=The+true+history+of+joseph+smith

 

 

May your postings here grow into the hundreds, and may

your novel-readers increase, henceforth and forever.

 

While thinking back upon President Smith's sisters, please

don't forget this one:

 

 

 

In the testimony meeting yesterday the position of President Smith in Friday's controversy was supported by his aged aunt, Mrs. Caroline [sic] Salisbury, who, trembling with age and infirmity, leaned on her chair and with tremulous voice pleaded with touching appeal to the Saints...

"...support the president, for he [is] truly the messenger of God. was a witness of the Gospel in the first [place], and of the truth of the claim of Joseph [iII] to the presidency and the rightful prerogatives of the position. Friday night an angel [came] to [me], [saying] the church had done wrong, and that unless the church shall follow the prophet in all things the Lord would certainly send His avenging angel and punish His undutiful and disobedient people."

 

http://olivercowdery.com/smithhome/BroBill/KStestimony.htm

 

UD

[Ahab]

Imagine what Disney world feels like to someone who really "loves" what Disney means to them. Not a perfect place, but a real place with many things "Disney" to appreciate.

I've never been to either place, but we're going to Disney world later this year. I'm not really a lover of all things Disney anymore but can remember when I once thought about it as a magical place, with a lot of fun things to do, and many wonderful characters, and a place I would like to go to someday.

For me Nauvoo is kinda like that, although with not as many "fun" things to do there. A place I remember reading about when reading through records of Church history. A place where Joseph and Hyrum and many other good people once lived. A place I would like to go to someday, remembering what I know happened there.

[ERayR]

Don't trust politicians.

[Michael13365]

May your postings here grow into the hundreds, and may

your novel-readers increase, henceforth and forever.

 

While thinking back upon President Smith's sisters, please

don't forget this one:

 

 

 Thanks for the kind words, Uncle Dale. Of course, that's a photo of Joseph's sister, Katharine. The sisters were were very close throughout their lives. What made Sophronia appealing to me was her closeness in age to Joseph, and the fact that so little is known of her - making her ideal for my fiction. I took her mother Lucy Mack Smith's history of Joseph as a model for my own effort. if you do get a chance to look at my book, I'd be very glad of your reactions. My email is wildernesshill@gmail.com

 

UD

[Michael13365]

Thanks for your kind words, Uncle Dale. That's a photo of Sophronia's sister Katharine. The three sisters were very close throughout their lives. What made Sophronia attractive for my purposes was her closeness in age to Joseph, and that so little is known of her. I took their mother Lucy Mack Smith's history of Joseph as a model for my own effort, and focused on periods in his,life about which Lucy was most reticent. If you do get a chance to look at my book, your reactions would be very welcome. My email is wildernesshill@gmail.com

[Michael13365]

Your book looks interesting. I'm curious how an outsider would write an LDS historical fiction novel. Did you self-publish?

You've hit up the people at the Association for Mormon Letters, right? That's were you will right all the LDS writers/artists/film makers, ect.

They have a Facebook Page, Blog, and Podcast. I think the AML is for Mormons (who make anything) and non-Mormons (who write things about the LDS faith). I don't think they have a chat board like this, but you could e-mail some people and such.

Thanks very much for the suggestions, which I will follow up. As to my own interest in Joseph, it grew out of a fascination with other religious innovations in upstate New York in the early 19th century. The Shakers, for example, developed a belief in posthumous salvation somewhat similar to the baptism of the dead initiated at Nauvoo. And the Oneida Community experimented with sexual relationships which, while different from Joseph's plural marriage innovations, brought down the wrath of their neighbors. All of these religious pioneers, including Joseph and his original followers, came out of the rich heritage of New England Puritanism. This is not to take away from Joseph - even Jesus lived within the context of his times and culture, and his message echoed such noble thinkers as Hillel.

And yes, I self published at Amazon's CreateSpace and Kindle.

[Ham Clam]

Nothing to do with reflecting on the historical relevance of Nauvoo, but when my Stake Youth group visited Nauvoo in 2011, it was a very healing experience.

My Stake, the Joplin Missouri Stake, went through an EF-5 Tornado (thank goodness I lived in a town 30 minutes away) in May.

It has destroyed our Stake Center, but the Stake had already paid for the trip, but we went anyways. It was a deeply bonding experience for us all. The hotel staff even made signs to welcome our stake and the Nauvoo Temple (a pretty same temple) staff made it so more of us could go through went we thought room was limited.

I wish I had the interest in Mormon history so I could have enjoyed it even more.

Our Stake Center was rebuilt after 16 months.

The meaning of Nauvoo, IL for the now Youth Adults in the Joplin Missouri Stake is hope.

[readstoomuch]

Nauvoo was a beautiful, industrious city rescued from the swamps next to the Mississippi.  There was a small creek than ran through the town until the damns were put in that control the river.  The streets were straight and the Saints flocked there and built the beautiful temple.  The restoration and shops that have been rebuilt are magnificent.  A few miles outside of town is a cemetery which looks like it has three or four hundred graves-the old LDS graveyard.  A number of names familiar to Mormons are there.  There is a phenomenal spirit that accompanies going there for me.  I have been there six times and would go again.  It was a special place where the Lord revealed the fulness of the doctrines of the gospel  

[mfbukowski]

I've thrice visited Hancock County -- the first times before the

modern version of the temple was erected -- and the last, just

as the first waves of increased tourism were beginning to appear.

 

My own family's farm was located at Bear Creek -- and is now

nothing but a cow-path, trees and a scattering of pasture land.

I have no special ties to Nauvoo itself -- it has not been a site

of pilgrimage for me.

 

But I recall a Utah family, lined up to buy ice-cream cones in the moist

heat of summer -- fanning their brows and excitedly exchanging opinions

amongst themselves as to what was "the most wonderful thing" their

eyes were drinking in.

 

For those of you who have stopped by, and were truly filled with

wonder (and for the rest, who merely savor the fine photography

now and then reproduced in Ensign articles) -- What was the point?

 

Why go to all the effort to build a city that the leaders themselves

admitted would soon be abandoned (when the Saints would become

"a great and mighty people" in the "Rocky Mountains")?

 

The Nauvoo House still stands, barely 10% finished, and that minor 

fulfillment of prophecy mostly due to the efforts of Major Bidamon,

a Gentile who had no reason to set aside a wing of the contemplated

world-class hotel for the perpetual, exclusive use of his adopted kin --

Joseph Smith's descendants (see LDS D&C).

 

What lesson do you take away from contemplation of that time and place?

 

UD

There's a reasonable chance that you are related to my wife.

 

Many of her relatives stayed in Hancock County and are now members of the C of C, and are still in the Nauvoo area.  We went and saw the old homestead and all that is left is one stone wall which has been incorporated into a garage in an outbuilding of a farmhouse, about 8 miles outside of town.

 

She is doing a lot of family history for these folks.  It will be interesting to see how this shakes out on the other side.