What Seas Did Christ Cross?

[Uncle Dale]

St. Peter Chrysologus (Archbishop of Ravenna)

wrote something interesting, in an ancient sermon

labeled "No. 16."

It is available on-line in a partial preview at Google Books:

>Selected Sermons, Volume II
>By Saint Peter Chrysologus,
>Rome: 1953 (English Translation: CUA Press 2004)

on page 75 of that 2004 publication, I came across this:

>SERMON 16:

>When Jesus Came to the Region of the Gerasenes
>
>Introduction

 

Only the first few sentences interested me, so I'll only copy that part:

>That Christ crosses seas and visits places is not a matter of

>human desire, but is the cause of human salvation. Christ walks

>not in order to see places, but in order to meet human beings

>who had been perishing from various calamities.

>
>What would the One who had made the places see that was new

>in those places? Or what escaped the view of him who was everywhere?

>As man he was seen in places, but as God he saw everywhere...

 

 

If this passage had only referred to the sea of Galilee, I might have

skipped over it, as having no special meaning. But, I was intrigued

enough to see whether or not the Archbishop's plural word "seas"

had been quoted elsewhere.

 

They were -- in Thomas Thorowgood's 1650 edition of Jews in America,

a volume which attempts to show that the American Indians descended

from the scattered Israelites in ancient times.

.

 

 

.

On page 59 of that book, Thorowgood quotes the Archbishop,

but his citation of Christ crossing "seas" is only indirectly linked

to the overall topic of the book:

 

>and Christians may have learned this from our deare Master

>Christ, who coasted the Countrey, and crossed the seas

>saith Chrysologus, not to satisfie  humane curiosity, but to

>promote mans salvation; not to see diversities of places,

>but to seeke, and finde, and save lost mankinde.

 

Thorowgood elsewhere speaks of Christ's apostles bringing

Christianity to the ancient Americans, but this is the only place

in his book where he indirectly alludes to the possibility of Christ

himself having "crossed the seas... to seek, and find, and save..."

 

---

 

Did Hugh Nibley or some other learned LDS scholar ever refer to

Thorowgood's writings (or to Chrysologus himself)? It appears to

be a topic worthy of at least a little consideration.

 

UD

[JLHPROF]

No idea about Thorowgood's writings (or Chrysologus).

But there has been the legend that Christ visited much of Europe between his teaching in the temple at 12 and his starting his ministry around 30.  That's been around for centuries, along with the Mary Magdalene in France stuff.

 

That could involve crossing seas.

 

As for the America's, I'm no archaeologist but I'm inclined to accept the Book of Mormon that Christs only visit was posthumous.

I have never heard of any evidence otherwise.

[Rivers]

I've thought up a great idea for a TV show. It would chronicle the life of Jesus before his ministry. It would be a lot like Smallville but It would be titled Nazareth.

[Uncle Dale]

...

 

That could involve crossing seas.

...

.

Edward King was convinced that the ancient Americans had been

Christians -- and that their white, bearded god was Jesus the son

of Mary...

 

 

.

But King stopped short of having Jesus cross the seas, He

left that possibility vague, and seemed to think it more likely

that the religion of Jesus was carried to America in Apostolic

times -- and that was enough for his purpose (of proving that

the native Americans were Israelites, who after centuries of

occupying the western hemisphere, became everywhere the

followers of Christ).

 

Samuel Mather, in his "An Attempt to Shew that America Must

be Known to the Ancients" (published years before Mr. King's wrote

anything) had somewhat the same idea. And I'm sure that other

18th century writers must have voiced similar opinions.

 

I thought there might be some discussion of Thorowgood, etc.

on the web (regarding Jesus crossing seas), but I'm finding

nothing so far.

 

UD

Edited March 23, 2015 by Uncle Dale

[Robert F. Smith]

.........................................

 

I thought there might be some discussion of Thorowgood, etc.

on the web (regarding Jesus crossing seas), but I'm finding

nothing so far.

........................................   

Actually quite a bit of that sort of thing has been gathered in a great two-volume work by John L. Sorenson and Martin H. Raish, Pre-Columbian Contact with the Americas across the Oceans: An Annotated Bibliography, 2nd ed. (Provo: FARMS Research Press, 1996).  All manner of speculations, legends, and facts are gathered, from Prester John to Quetzalcoatl.

[Uncle Dale]

Actually quite a bit of that sort of thing has been gathered in a great two-volume work by John L. Sorenson and Martin H. Raish, Pre-Columbian Contact with the Americas across the Oceans: An Annotated Bibliography, 2nd ed. (Provo: FARMS Research Press, 1996).  All manner of speculations, legends, and facts are gathered, from Prester John to Quetzalcoatl.

 

 

I'll probably have to re-new my old GospelLink subscription to get it.

Neither Google Books nor Amazon have on-line previews. Either

that. or buy the hard-copy and scan all the pages (I have trouble

reading directly from actual book texts these days).

 

Another item to add to my 20-page to-do list, I guess.

 

UD

[mfbukowski]

I'll probably have to re-new my old GospelLink subscription to get it.

Neither Google Books nor Amazon have on-line previews. Either

that. or buy the hard-copy and scan all the pages (I have trouble

reading directly from actual book texts these days).

 

Another item to add to my 20-page to-do list, I guess.

 

UD

I googled it and got at least this 17 page article

http://publications.maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/jbms/14/1/S00004-50be6c37a0e672Sorenson.pdf

 

I don't think gospel link exists any more- it is all just on lds.org

Edited March 25, 2015 by mfbukowski

[Uncle Dale]

I googled it and got at least this 17 page article

http://publications.maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/jbms/14/1/S00004-50be6c37a0e672Sorenson.pdf

 

I don't think gospel link exists any more- it is all just on lds.org

 

Pretty article. We could have made use of a couple of the references

in the previous discussion of whether or not Lehi brought seeds to

America which grew into field crops.

 

But, no mention of Mr. Thorowgood's 1650 and 1660 books, nor of traditions

of Jesus the son of Mary visiting the Americas.

 

I've started a web-page for Thorowgood, here --

 

 

.

When I've saved up enough money to buy the two Sorenson books, I'll

look to see if he has anything to say about the Christ legends.

 

Or, if anybody already has that material available, from either of

those two books, we could check it out, while I'm waiting for my

next two socsec bank deposits.

 

UD