How Do So Many People Leave The Church Or Go Inactive?

[Kevin Christensen]

By far, the best answer I have seen to the question of how so many people leave the church is the parable of the sower.  I've been pondering the question seriously since my mission. Of that particular parable, Jesus commented, "Know ye not this parable? How then shall ye know all parables?"  Soil, nurture, patience, and priorities all influence the harvest from the word.

 

FWIW

 

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

[Teancum]

There's a whole youtube thing called "My name's blah blah and I'm an ex Mormon." They talk about how they left the church. There's some videos too of a former Bishop who left the church for another church. How can someone leave the church if they've felt the spirit? Is Satan really that good at what he does? I've felt the spirit so I would never leave, but all these people have left and many members have gone inactive. I'm happy the church is growing with lots of converts, but we have to also realize that many are also leaving and or going inactive.

  Because some conclude, based on evidence, critical thinking and reason that the Church is simply not what it claims.  Often they then evaluate what are called spiritual witnesses in light of new evidence and knowledge.  They conclude that the witness may have been generated by their own emotional need to conclude that the LDS Church was true.

[Teancum]

I think there are many reasons that cause people to be dissatisfied with the Church or be led astray.  And only God can judge that.

 

But in my personal experience and opinion, the one overriding characteristic is that they are happier (or believe they are happier) outside the Church.

 

So in the end they put their happiness ahead of the gospel.  Whatever justification they chose for leaving, be it doctrinal, social, political or something else, they left because their own personal happiness outweighed staying.

Somewhere we got the idea that if the gospel doesn't make us happy all the time we shouldn't stick with it.  I guess being happy is more important.  Too bad the Savior and the prophets didn't realize that happiness was more important than their missions.  They might not have suffered so much.  (END SARCASM).

  I would suggest that this conclusion is simply nonsense.  For most immersed in the LDS gospel at a high activity level when they go through their faith crisis it is one of the most painful and unhappy experiences they ever go through. Leaving is painful for them and often means loss of friends, repurcussions in their family life and a loss of a strong social structure of support they onve enjoyed. 

 

So yea you really don't know what you are talking about here.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Practically everyone in my YM/YW group growing up has left the church or gone inactive. It's sad how many out here fell away. Somehow my brother and I survived.

[mfbukowski]

Hmm both of you suggested about 1/3 or roughly only 5 million. Should we be focusing more on bringing these people back as much as we focus on new converts?

We now are doing that through the "Hastening the Work" program, the 555 program and others.

 

That's why your missionaries are doing it.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Ya, our missionaries are working very hard on our "lost sheep." There's so many. How bad will judgement from God be for these members that accept baptism and the covenants and then fell away?

[SeekingUnderstanding]

Perhaps they got the idea from Brother Joseph:

 

"Happiness is the object and design of our existence; and will be the end thereof, if we pursue the path that leads to it; and this path is virtue, uprightness, faithfulness, holiness, and keeping all the commandments of God” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 255–56).

 

Also we call the plan of salvation, the plan of happiness. While I don't think happiness is guaranteed for anyone in this life, if living the gospel as taught by the church is the source of your unhappiness, it might be time to reevaluate what you're doing per Alma 32.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Whenever I live the gospel and keep the law of chastity, I do feel some unhappiness, but that's from the memory of past mistakes I've made. The times I do slip I feel comfort and joy in my sins for a brief period, then I feel regret and sorrow afterwards and a need to repent. So ya, my mind's all over the place. Lousy Tourettes and sin.

[JLHPROF]

  I would suggest that this conclusion is simply nonsense.  For most immersed in the LDS gospel at a high activity level when they go through their faith crisis it is one of the most painful and unhappy experiences they ever go through. Leaving is painful for them and often means loss of friends, repurcussions in their family life and a loss of a strong social structure of support they onve enjoyed. 

 

So yea you really don't know what you are talking about here.

 

Then let me explain:

 

Leaving the church can be painful.  Dealing with the doubt can be painful.  The happiness I refer to is the "relief" felt when they are no longer under the demands of the Church.  It is interpreted as happiness, and for some it probably is.

 

My mother was a lifelong member, strong and faithful.  Through a mixture of events over a long period she became disillusioned and bitter against the Church.  She finally married a non-member, broke her temple covenants and left.

She is a different person now, happy, loving life, and full of energy and adventure.

 

People that leave the church will almost always tell you they are happier.  But I still believe it to be a false happiness.  It's not the leaving they claim makes them happy, it is a hard process.  It's the condition of not having the trials of being a saint any more.

Edited September 11, 2014 by JLHPROF

[SeekingUnderstanding]

Whenever I live the gospel and keep the law of chastity, I do feel some unhappiness, but that's from the memory of past mistakes I've made. The times I do slip I feel comfort and joy in my sins for a brief period, then I feel regret and sorrow afterwards and a need to repent. So ya, my mind's all over the place. Lousy Tourettes and sin.

You seem pretty hard on yourself. Perhaps Elder Uchtorf's quote applies here:

Now, brethren, compared to the perfection of God, we mortals are scarcely more than awkward, faltering toddlers. But our loving Heavenly Father wants us to become more like Him, and, dear brethren, that should be our eternal goal too. God understands that we get there not in an instant but by taking one step at a time.

 

I do not believe in a God who would set up rules and commandments only to wait for us to fail so He could punish us. I believe in a Heavenly Father who is loving and caring and who rejoices in our every effort to stand tall and walk toward Him. Even when we stumble, He urges us not to be discouraged—never to give up or flee our allotted field of service—but to take courage, find our faith, and keep trying.

I don't think it matters so much how many times we fall and stumble in life as we learn to walk. I think what matters is what direction we choose to face when we stand back up.

[JLHPROF]

Perhaps it is the equation of happiness with joy or thinking that happiness in the eternities means happiness in the now.

 

That's exactly what it is.

If the Church made me completely miserable (which it doesn't) for any reason, I might go inactive but I would NEVER leave.  The gospel is true and sometimes being unhappy is part of the test.  When people begin to feel this test or a faith crisis or whatever it is the negative feelings provide a false witness against the Church while the relief felt when they remove themselves from the test often manifests as a false positive witness (happiness).

 

Joseph was completely miserable in Liberty Jail, pleading with the Lord for help and relief.  He was absolutely not happy with his situation.  But he knew that whatever God wanted to put him through was right, and if it meant him being unhappy so be it.  He wasn't under the illusion that living his religion needed to provide happiness and joy all the time.  He fully expected some misery as a result.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

People that leave the church will almost always tell you they are happier.  But I still believe it to be a false happiness.  It's not the leaving they claim makes them happy, it is a hard process.  It's the condition of not having the trials of being a saint any more.

 

This seems like a No True Scotsman fallacy. Either happiness (not talking about momentary pleasure here) is indicative of righteous living or it is not ("consider the blessed and happy state of those that keep the commandments of God" vs "Wickedness never was happiness"). Either Alma 32 is a valid test or it is not. It is cheating to say it is only good fruit, or true happiness when it meets my preconceived notions of what is good and right.

[VideoGameJunkie]

JLHPROF, I agree with what you say. I've felt a lot of unhappiness in my life, but I feel it's a test and happiness through eternity is the end reward. And seekingunderstanding, thanks for your link to what Uchtdorf said, it helps a lot.

[JLHPROF]

This seems like a No True Scotsman fallacy. Either happiness (not talking about momentary pleasure here) is indicative of righteous living or it is not ("consider the blessed and happy state of those that keep the commandments of God" vs "Wickedness never was happiness"). Either Alma 32 is a valid test or it is not. It is cheating to say it is only good fruit, or true happiness when it meets my preconceived notions of what is good and right.

 

Perhaps my reasoning is a fallacy.  Perhaps not.

But what I am saying is it is not happiness they are feeling when they abandon God.  It's relief, freedom, release, or some other similar term, and THAT is what makes them feel happy.

My mother thinks she's very happy now that's she's walked away from the gospel she loved so much.  I'm not convinced.  I think it's the freedom to do as she pleases without thought of covenant or commandment that she finds her peace in.

[Avatar4321]

We do put alot of effort in to reactivation.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

Perhaps my reasoning is a fallacy.  Perhaps not.

But what I am saying is it is not happiness they are feeling when they abandon God.  It's relief, freedom, release, or some other similar term, and THAT is what makes them feel happy.

My mother thinks she's very happy now that's she's walked away from the gospel she loved so much.  I'm not convinced.  I think it's the freedom to do as she pleases without thought of covenant or commandment that she finds her peace in.

 

So "Wickedness never was happiness [unless it is, in which case the happiness you feel is false happiness, so best go back to the way you were before when you thought you were unhappy, but in reality you were much happier than you are now]"? Is Alma 32 a valid test or not? If the seed brings forth fruits of joy and happiness how do we know if it is real joy and happiness or not?

Edited September 11, 2014 by SeekingUnderstanding

[mfbukowski]

Ya, our missionaries are working very hard on our "lost sheep." There's so many. How bad will judgement from God be for these members that accept baptism and the covenants and then fell away?

I think if they were acting earnestly, in good faith, and doing what they thought was the best thing, that they will not be judged harshly at all.

 

God knows this is a tough world and after all, we are here to figure it out for ourselves.  As long as we are doing our genuine best, I think that is what it is- our best!  How can you judge someone for doing the best they can?

[mfbukowski]

Whenever I live the gospel and keep the law of chastity, I do feel some unhappiness, but that's from the memory of past mistakes I've made. The times I do slip I feel comfort and joy in my sins for a brief period, then I feel regret and sorrow afterwards and a need to repent. So ya, my mind's all over the place. Lousy Tourettes and sin.

Everyone else feels just the same- don't put yourself down for what you can't control. 

[Guest]

There's a whole youtube thing called "My name's blah blah and I'm an ex Mormon." They talk about how they left the church. There's some videos too of a former Bishop who left the church for another church. How can someone leave the church if they've felt the spirit? Is Satan really that good at what he does? I've felt the spirit so I would never leave, but all these people have left and many members have gone inactive. I'm happy the church is growing with lots of converts, but we have to also realize that many are also leaving and or going inactive.

The parable of the sower tells it all. Also many gain a testimony of the Church and forget to nurture a testimony of Christ. The Church as great as it is, is filled with the imperfect, we need to look to God, the perfect.

[Jeanne]

I believe that in this day and age, those who are recently baptized have the most difficult time.  Missionary lessons as fast and many are quick to get baptized ..then they find the internet.  Some testimonies aren't strong enough for what they learn. 

[Bart Burk]

There's a whole youtube thing called "My name's blah blah and I'm an ex Mormon." They talk about how they left the church. There's some videos too of a former Bishop who left the church for another church. How can someone leave the church if they've felt the spirit? Is Satan really that good at what he does? I've felt the spirit so I would never leave, but all these people have left and many members have gone inactive. I'm happy the church is growing with lots of converts, but we have to also realize that many are also leaving and or going inactive.

It is called freedom. Our experiences are all different. Some people are politically liberal and I'll never understand that either. Those of us who leave Mormonism just come to see Joseph Smith differently than we once did. I don't understand how anyone could leave the Catholic Church. Edited September 11, 2014 by Bart Burk

[ERayR]

I think if they were acting earnestly, in good faith, and doing what they thought was the best thing, that they will not be judged harshly at all.

 

God knows this is a tough world and after all, we are here to figure it out for ourselves.  As long as we are doing our genuine best, I think that is what it is- our best!  How can you judge someone for doing the best they can?

 

I am of the firm belief that it is not a pass/fail proposition but more of a sorting to our comfort level.

[Guest]

I believe that in this day and age, those who are recently baptized have the most difficult time.  Missionary lessons as fast and many are quick to get baptized ..then they find the internet.  Some testimonies aren't strong enough for what they learn.

Maybe, but I joined in 1979 and my friends made sure I ended up will lots of anti-Mormon books. This was long before I could google the correct answers. Loooooong before many of the answers to the worst lies could be dealt with other than reading books the size of the Bible by others.

[Tacenda]

I would suggest that this conclusion is simply nonsense. For most immersed in the LDS gospel at a high activity level when they go through their faith crisis it is one of the most painful and unhappy experiences they ever go through. Leaving is painful for them and often means loss of friends, repurcussions in their family life and a loss of a strong social structure of support they onve enjoyed.

So yea you really don't know what you are talking about here.

And many stay forever with those feelings to save a marriage/family, and maybe their rep in the community, or their jobs.

Funny thing is there are plenty of unbelievers that are active and plenty true believers that aren't, go figure...

[cursor]

There's a whole youtube thing called "My name's blah blah and I'm an ex Mormon."

I find that to be a very unnecessarily dismissive expression pointed at a very wide range of very genuine, quality, thinking humans.