VideoGameJunkie Posted September 12, 2014 Author Posted September 12, 2014 I couldn't list all their names so I said "blah blah". I've watched a lot of those videos and they all seem so happy.
Bart Burk Posted September 12, 2014 Posted September 12, 2014 I couldn't list all their names so I said "blah blah". I've watched a lot of those videos and they all seem so happy.I really don't think what you think about religion affects your happiness.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 12, 2014 Author Posted September 12, 2014 What does affect our happiness if not religion?
Bart Burk Posted September 12, 2014 Posted September 12, 2014 What does affect our happiness if not religion?The relationships you have with family and friends. And some people just naturally seem to be happier -- they seem to be born that way. I've seen a lot of unhappy people who were extremely religious.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 12, 2014 Author Posted September 12, 2014 I at times am extremely unhappy and I'm very religious. Maybe our happiness and extreme joy doesn't come until the next life and those that fall away receive their happiness now, but lose the opportunity for ultimate happiness in the next life.
Calm Posted September 12, 2014 Posted September 12, 2014 I couldn't list all their names so I said "blah blah". I've watched a lot of those videos and they all seem so happy.Appearances can be deceiving. Not saying they weren't happy as they appeared to be, but there is that possibility. I apologize if this offends someone but I think everyone would recognize the conflict between what was often the public appearance of Robin Williams and what appears to have been the reality of his inner state unfortunately a significant portion of his life.
Bart Burk Posted September 12, 2014 Posted September 12, 2014 I at times am extremely unhappy and I'm very religious. Maybe our happiness and extreme joy doesn't come until the next life and those that fall away receive their happiness now, but lose the opportunity for ultimate happiness in the next life.Or maybe if you are unhappy in this life you will carry that unhappiness into the next one.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 12, 2014 Author Posted September 12, 2014 Bart, that's a very unpleasant thought. I would hate to carry that unhappiness for eternity. That would suck. I always imagined crossing the veil as letting go of all pains, worries, and bad stuff. Isn't that what it's all about? Or have we been lied to?
Rivers Posted September 12, 2014 Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) To be perfectly honest I have sometimes imagined leaving the church to be a liberating experience. The people in the ex-mormon videos seem to have great sense of freedom. They are free to live the lives they want to live and think the way they want to think. . The decision to leave the church is also a matter of integrity. People don't feel right belonging to an organization that they plain and simply disagree with.When one leaves the church he/she no longer has to put things on the shelf and struggle with certain issues. Once you are out of the church, you are freed from all of that.They make it seem very appealing. But whenever I entertain the idea of leaving the church I remind myself of the trade-off that I would be making. Why is it that people leave after having a spiritual witness? I think most ex-mormons would say that they now interpret their spiritual experiences in a different light. That's why it is so important that we follow Alma 32 and continuously nourish our seed of faith. One of the biggest factors that keeps my faith alive is the writings of Terryl and Fiona Givens. They have helped me to understand the core principles of the gospel better than anyone else. I love the last line in their most recent book in which they say that they have faith in the gospel because it tastes good. And the gospel of Christ tastes very good to me as well. So I guess that's the best answer to the question. The church and the gospel is a matter of taste. Edited September 12, 2014 by Rivers
Tacenda Posted September 12, 2014 Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) Bart, that's a very unpleasant thought. I would hate to carry that unhappiness for eternity. That would suck. I always imagined crossing the veil as letting go of all pains, worries, and bad stuff. Isn't that what it's all about? Or have we been lied to?This thinking seems so wrong VGJ, that for now unhappiness is what it is and the next life won't be that way. You need to be happy now since what if...we were lied to? Why waste this life, if it's our only one, and the Atheist were right and we'd only thought of the hereafter, only to not wake up again? Too often people don't work at things in their life because they think they have eternity, even letting their relationships slide, we get lazy in fact. Some people I've even heard say...that they just want this life to end, they just want to go to the other side because they're so miserable. I'm not saying I don't believe in God. I just think God would be sad if the life he's given us is wasted like that, of course I believe there are definitely disabilities that contribute and one cannot always help it. River: I feel somewhat a freedom with my crisis. But deep down, I feel safer in the LDS realm. I have to admit, I'm bias for the LDS lifestyle. The non LDS or ex LDS lifestyle, not all, where it's party hearty or what not, scares me to death. But lately my crisis of faith or journey has become so much easier now. Where before I'd feel so uncomfortable around neighbors and ward members thinking to myself "what if they find out about my non belief?" and "I'm such a fake". But now I'm leaving room for that belief in the church once again but in different ways because one cannot go back to the way they believed before, if they have I'd like to know how. And I'm actually feeling somewhat normal again around these people, so glad too! Maybe it's because of people like the Given's that have opened that avenue of belief? Also, here's an article I really like with Pres. Uchtdorf's opinion on the matter. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/08/dieter-uchtdorf-mormon-leader-church-mistakes_n_4059683.html Edited September 12, 2014 by Tacenda 1
Rivers Posted September 12, 2014 Posted September 12, 2014 Bart, that's a very unpleasant thought. I would hate to carry that unhappiness for eternity. That would suck. I always imagined crossing the veil as letting go of all pains, worries, and bad stuff. Isn't that what it's all about? Or have we been lied to?We have all eternity find the path to happiness. 1
Yirgacheffe Posted September 12, 2014 Posted September 12, 2014 Bart, that's a very unpleasant thought. I would hate to carry that unhappiness for eternity. That would suck. I always imagined crossing the veil as letting go of all pains, worries, and bad stuff. Isn't that what it's all about? Or have we been lied to?You seem to want those who are happy now to get what's coming to them in the next life, but you should be rewarded. Seems kind of a mean spirited hope.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 12, 2014 Author Posted September 12, 2014 Is that how I came off? Didn't mean to word it like that. I suffer a lot mentally from a mental condition in this life, but I'm trying to find happiness. I'm not saying the people happy now should be punished, I was just questioning if it was true happiness.
Bart Burk Posted September 12, 2014 Posted September 12, 2014 We have all eternity find the path to happiness.I completely agree with you! I also think that happiness and joy are sometimes confused with fun. Sometimes the people we think are happy, joyful people may just seem to be having more fun than we are. That is a material thing which is completely different than the joy Christ brings the believer.
Yirgacheffe Posted September 12, 2014 Posted September 12, 2014 Is that how I came off? Didn't mean to word it like that. I suffer a lot mentally from a mental condition in this life, but I'm trying to find happiness. I'm not saying the people happy now should be punished, I was just questioning if it was true happiness.Probably more a problem of the medium than you personally, brief responses are, at least in my case, not always interpreted right. You have to write paragraphs to get across the nuances that are naturally gained by facial expressions, body language and tone of voice. Who has time for that 2
Teancum Posted September 12, 2014 Posted September 12, 2014 Then let me explain: Leaving the church can be painful. Dealing with the doubt can be painful. The happiness I refer to is the "relief" felt when they are no longer under the demands of the Church. It is interpreted as happiness, and for some it probably is. My mother was a lifelong member, strong and faithful. Through a mixture of events over a long period she became disillusioned and bitter against the Church. She finally married a non-member, broke her temple covenants and left.She is a different person now, happy, loving life, and full of energy and adventure. People that leave the church will almost always tell you they are happier. But I still believe it to be a false happiness. It's not the leaving they claim makes them happy, it is a hard process. It's the condition of not having the trials of being a saint any more. First of all you can deem their happiness feigned or false but that is simply a judgment that you in no way can really know. Perhaps you need to make that judgment to deal with your own cognitive dissonance that accepting that people can be happier without the LDS Church in their life and it can be a real and full happiness.As for the trials of not being LDS well life is full of trials and one need not be LDS to have trials. Granted the LDS Church and its gospel may put constraints and expectations one a devote member that some just may not want to deal with. But I have found that those who were dully immersed and determine the Church is simply not what it claims to be don't leave because they cannot handle the expectations. They leave because they don't believe it anymore. 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 12, 2014 Author Posted September 12, 2014 I don't know what I'd do with my life without the church. It's always been there for me in my life.
SeekerB Posted September 12, 2014 Posted September 12, 2014 My mother was a lifelong member, strong and faithful. Through a mixture of events over a long period she became disillusioned and bitter against the Church. She finally married a non-member, broke her temple covenants and left.She is a different person now, happy, loving life, and full of energy and adventure. So is she happy now because she lives free with no consequences for bad behavior? BTW, I know plenty of active LDS people who are happy, love life and are full of energy and adventure.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 12, 2014 Author Posted September 12, 2014 Seeker, I agree, everyone in my church on Sunday always seems so happy and like they have no problems in their life. I know this isn't the case, but every Mormon I interact with at my church is always in a good mood so I try to put on my best mood as well.
JLHPROF Posted September 12, 2014 Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) So is she happy now because she lives free with no consequences for bad behavior? BTW, I know plenty of active LDS people who are happy, love life and are full of energy and adventure. She thinks she's happier because she no longer has to give up anything in her mind. No tithing. No WoW. No wearing of garments. No restrictions (beyond the law). She no longer had to look for a husband within the gospel to marry to avoid breaking her temple covenants as she saw it. She married an atheist. Basically, she got to do exactly what she wanted, and for some reason she's "happier" than when she was trying to follow the practices of the Church. I still think it's more about freedom to do what people want that make them leave. They don't have to reconcile doubts, follow rules, or sacrifice for the gospel. They get to do what THEY want and be happy instead of what GOD wants and occasionally sacrifice that happiness.And THAT is the big reason I think most people leave. Edited September 12, 2014 by JLHPROF 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 12, 2014 Author Posted September 12, 2014 JLHPROF, I'll agree to that since Mormons make so many covenants and follow so many rules. A lot of people can feel repressed by expectations and what they HAVE to do.
ERayR Posted September 12, 2014 Posted September 12, 2014 .JLHPROF, I'll agree to that since Mormons make so many covenants and follow so many rules. A lot of people can feel repressed by expectations and what they HAVE to do. And yet I know others that are invigorated by their covenants. 1
cursor Posted September 12, 2014 Posted September 12, 2014 I know many ... yes, that would be MANY former and [still] current friends who have thoughtfully chosen alternative paths to Mormon life. Hell, who am I to judge? There are all sorts of combinations of life experiences that lead us to where we are, and to what we will become. That is what it's all about, after all. Right? Informed choice. Of the eleven companions I had as an LDS missionary, less than half are currently active members of the LDS faith. That hardly means that they're not happy in life. The single guy that I respect the most probably had a more dramatic early life experience than any of us. Born in ID, he grew up in North Africa (son of a US ambassador). His home was invaded multiple times by local militants ... guns pointed at their family's heads. He was pre-teen at the time. I plan on hooking up with him this coming week in SLC. Our unique life experiences are so varied ... and deserve serious consideration/recognition.Life is short. With respect to eternal progress, there are no limits. Learn ... move forward ... learn, then move forward. My life is not yours. Its significance can't reasonably be appreciated by anyone else but by me (and only by me ... if I try really intently) And, your life is not mine. I can't pretend to understand its full complexity. I can, however, always make an honest attempt to appreciate the meaning ... the complexity ... of the lives of others (including very close friends). 4
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 12, 2014 Author Posted September 12, 2014 I'm glad they at least found happiness in this life. Finding happiness in this life isn't an easy thing to do with all the problems we face in the world.
Jeanne Posted September 12, 2014 Posted September 12, 2014 I don't know what I'd do with my life without the church. It's always been there for me in my life.Exactly. To really know or define happiness for you, someday you might have to wear someone else's moscassins. Unless you have walked that mile in openness and love, you will be content, but maybe not really happy or understanding. Having been on both sides of the fence, my religion is still kindness. Hugs,Jeanne
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