VideoGameJunkie Posted September 11, 2014 Posted September 11, 2014 There's a whole youtube thing called "My name's blah blah and I'm an ex Mormon." They talk about how they left the church. There's some videos too of a former Bishop who left the church for another church. How can someone leave the church if they've felt the spirit? Is Satan really that good at what he does? I've felt the spirit so I would never leave, but all these people have left and many members have gone inactive. I'm happy the church is growing with lots of converts, but we have to also realize that many are also leaving and or going inactive.
Avatar4321 Posted September 11, 2014 Posted September 11, 2014 I am sure there are many reason. Being a disciple of Christ is not an easy road. I think it would be prudent to let God judge them. Our job is simply to love them and win them back. 2
ERayR Posted September 11, 2014 Posted September 11, 2014 There's a whole youtube thing called "My name's blah blah and I'm an ex Mormon." They talk about how they left the church. There's some videos too of a former Bishop who left the church for another church. How can someone leave the church if they've felt the spirit? Is Satan really that good at what he does? I've felt the spirit so I would never leave, but all these people have left and many members have gone inactive. I'm happy the church is growing with lots of converts, but we have to also realize that many are also leaving and or going inactive. People are funny that way. They change doctors, mechanics, churches and etc. Some of them change to the LDS church, some leave. Some become Catholic, some something else. My guess is that the numbers leaving the LDS Church are pretty much comparable to those leaving other churches. Some just leave and others hold grudges for slights both actual and perceived. 1
rpn Posted September 11, 2014 Posted September 11, 2014 Most of those who have left will tell you that they once said things like what you are saying. I think that those whose gift is to know, have it easier than those whose gift is to believe on what others know. (But even those who know are at risk of deciding they know more that church leaders.) The story of Job is instructive. Everyone is blaming God: Job just doesn't go there. Institutional or personal actions that seem to interfere with rock solid testimony include: Growing up in a home which told you what to do rather than helped you learn to seek and hear the spirit and make hard choices yourself. Teaching works without grace, or teaching obey at any cost (as opposed to do your due diligence to get spiritual confirmation and when you cannot, figure out with God your next step since the mote may be in your own eye), or modeling celebrity in leaders and coming to think of their calling as imbuing them with status that make a fall much harder to take. Making one's worship about appearance and other's visible sins rather than our changed hearts. Pride. Lack of gratitude and lives of service.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 11, 2014 Author Posted September 11, 2014 The most intriguing ones I see are the former Bishops who left the church. It's weird to think they were that high in their church calling, and were responsible for leading and helping many others, and then they themselves fall away and leave the church. I usually view Bishops with such high praise.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 11, 2014 Author Posted September 11, 2014 I also believe that Satan is very real and influences people and is very good at what he does.
Tacenda Posted September 11, 2014 Posted September 11, 2014 Things I've read and experienced is they feel the same spirit when watching a spritual or patriotic movie or action, having nothing to do with the church. They and I, apparently thought the HG was whispering truth of the church being true when having the feelings in different circumstances, but that asurety breaks down when one finds things in church history that bother, or see leaders who are fallible or...take your pick. Maybe those that still believe had stronger witnesses, I dunno. 2
ERayR Posted September 11, 2014 Posted September 11, 2014 Things I've read and experienced is they feel the same spirit when watching a spritual or patriotic movie or action, having nothing to do with the church. They and I, apparently thought the HG was whispering truth of the church being true when having the feelings in different circumstances, but that asurety breaks down when one finds things in church history that bother, or see leaders who are fallible or...take your pick. Maybe those that still believe had stronger witnesses, I dunno. The Holy Ghost sends the message How it is received is up to the individual. 1
Buzzard Posted September 11, 2014 Posted September 11, 2014 The most intriguing ones I see are the former Bishops who left the church. It's weird to think they were that high in their church calling, and were responsible for leading and helping many others, and then they themselves fall away and leave the church. I usually view Bishops with such high praise.I'm being a bit snarky here, but it seems like every single person who left the church and feels strongly about it to make a Youtube video or something similar was an RM, married in the temple, parent of four or more kids, and if not a bishop or RS prez, at least a HP group leader.This leaves me with one of two conclusions: If you leave after having been immersed in the church for most or all of your life, you feel a greater need to justify it publicly (they would say they are trying to warn people), either that or some of them are lying. Saying I left after being inactive for ten years because my girlfriend wouldn't live with me if I was still a Mormon doesn't pack the punch of saying I resigned my bishopric and my membership on the same day. 3
Popular Post Boanerges Posted September 11, 2014 Popular Post Posted September 11, 2014 I know it's not because they're lazy, sinful, or offended - it is not that simple. (Pres. Uchtdorf's words, not mine - but I agree.) I don't want to say too much here in order to remain anonymous and effective, but I am actually assigned by my stake president to seek out and work with individuals in crisis, who believe they have lost their testimonies, who are inactive, and who are thinking of having their names removed. I reiterate, "it is not that simple." Satan and the Spirit notwithstanding, there are a variety of reasons and no one reason fits any one individual (Uchtdorf again). I have found one thing in common among all I have worked with: cognitive dissonance. Whether the issues are historical (BoA, Mountain Meadows, Blacks and the priesthood, etc.), or doctrinal (prayer, witness of the Holy Ghost, etc.) there always seems to be a disconnect between what these people have been taught their whole lives (or at least their whole church lives) and believe and factual actualities they face in real life. Their concerns, doubts, uncertainties, and questions are real (Uchtdorf again), but most active members neither understand nor want to understand them. There is room (Uchtdorf one last time), the trick is helping them understand that - and helping the active membership understand that. 7
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 11, 2014 Author Posted September 11, 2014 Boanerges, that must be a hard calling. I know how difficult it can be to bring people back to the church. That's what the sister missionaries do in my ward.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 11, 2014 Author Posted September 11, 2014 It makes you wonder out of the 15 million documented members, how many are actually active in the church.
JLHPROF Posted September 11, 2014 Posted September 11, 2014 I think there are many reasons that cause people to be dissatisfied with the Church or be led astray. And only God can judge that. But in my personal experience and opinion, the one overriding characteristic is that they are happier (or believe they are happier) outside the Church. So in the end they put their happiness ahead of the gospel. Whatever justification they chose for leaving, be it doctrinal, social, political or something else, they left because their own personal happiness outweighed staying.Somewhere we got the idea that if the gospel doesn't make us happy all the time we shouldn't stick with it. I guess being happy is more important. Too bad the Savior and the prophets didn't realize that happiness was more important than their missions. They might not have suffered so much. (END SARCASM).
JLHPROF Posted September 11, 2014 Posted September 11, 2014 It makes you wonder out of the 15 million documented members, how many are actually active in the church. I believe the estimated number is about 1/3 or 5 million.
Brian 2.0 Posted September 11, 2014 Posted September 11, 2014 It makes you wonder out of the 15 million documented members, how many are actually active in the church.I have zero data to back this up, but the number I often heard thrown around is approx 30% of the 15 mil attend ar least once a month.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 11, 2014 Author Posted September 11, 2014 Hmm both of you suggested about 1/3 or roughly only 5 million. Should we be focusing more on bringing these people back as much as we focus on new converts?
Boanerges Posted September 11, 2014 Posted September 11, 2014 Boanerges, that must be a hard calling. I know how difficult it can be to bring people back to the church. That's what the sister missionaries do in my ward. Depending on the individuals and where they are at (some are not ready to be rescued and some, I think, never will be), the missionaries do help me. Others that directly help include the stake presidency and bishops, and sometimes high councilors, elders quorum presidents and high priest group leaders. 1
JLHPROF Posted September 11, 2014 Posted September 11, 2014 Hmm both of you suggested about 1/3 or roughly only 5 million. Should we be focusing more on bringing these people back as much as we focus on new converts? Some would say yes, some would say no.Those who are members know the gospel and can choose to leave. And God will judge their choices.Those who don't know the gospel have not been given the option to choose, and God requires all men to choose.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 11, 2014 Author Posted September 11, 2014 Good point. It just seems insane at how many of the 15 million don't go to church and take the sacrament and renew their baptism covenants, when they have the chance to. I wish more remained active. Wards would be so much bigger.
Buckeye Posted September 11, 2014 Posted September 11, 2014 There's a whole youtube thing called "My name's blah blah and I'm an ex Mormon." They talk about how they left the church. There's some videos too of a former Bishop who left the church for another church. How can someone leave the church if they've felt the spirit? Is Satan really that good at what he does? I've felt the spirit so I would never leave, but all these people have left and many members have gone inactive. I'm happy the church is growing with lots of converts, but we have to also realize that many are also leaving and or going inactive. Facts are sometimes tough things. Many, if not most, of the apostles ordained by Joseph left the church. In our day there are bishops, stake presidents, mission presidents, temple presidents (man we have a lot of presidents) and many sisters of similar "high calling" who choose to leave the church for one reason or another. The reasons people leave are as varied and numerous as those people. Some of the reasons I would judge to be good reasons, or at least acceptable. Others I would judge to be bad reasons. But the more I've lived, the more I'm inclined to limit my judging. If you really want to understand people who leave, try speaking with them. In my experience, you will generally find that they left because they felt they could find something better elsewhere. Again, that doesn't mean their decision will turn out to be correct for them, but it does mean they are sincere and well-motivated in their decision - just as sincere and well-motivated as you are in yours. So if you are going to judge, try to do so in a way you would like to be judged yourself. 3
Buckeye Posted September 11, 2014 Posted September 11, 2014 I think there are many reasons that cause people to be dissatisfied with the Church or be led astray. And only God can judge that. But in my personal experience and opinion, the one overriding characteristic is that they are happier (or believe they are happier) outside the Church. So in the end they put their happiness ahead of the gospel. Whatever justification they chose for leaving, be it doctrinal, social, political or something else, they left because their own personal happiness outweighed staying.Somewhere we got the idea that if the gospel doesn't make us happy all the time we shouldn't stick with it. I guess being happy is more important. Too bad the Savior and the prophets didn't realize that happiness was more important than their missions. They might not have suffered so much. (END SARCASM). Perhaps they got the idea from Brother Joseph: "Happiness is the object and design of our existence; and will be the end thereof, if we pursue the path that leads to it; and this path is virtue, uprightness, faithfulness, holiness, and keeping all the commandments of God” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 255–56). 3
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 11, 2014 Author Posted September 11, 2014 I recently talked to someone who left the church years ago and they said they didn't need a church to believe in a God.
Calm Posted September 11, 2014 Posted September 11, 2014 Somewhere we got the idea that if the gospel doesn't make us happy all the time we shouldn't stick with it. Perhaps it is the equation of happiness with joy or thinking that happiness in the eternities means happiness in the now. 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 11, 2014 Author Posted September 11, 2014 I found a Mormon almanac site that agreed with what you guys said about only 4.5 million attending church. But I assume this doesn't count all the many children under the age of 8 who haven't been baptized yet.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 11, 2014 Author Posted September 11, 2014 Cal, I feel too often people think about the happiness in the now, and don't think about how much joy and happiness we'll have in the eternities.
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