What Are The Origins Of The "ordain Women" Group?

[smac97]

In one of the OW-related threads, RPN made this rather interesting remark:

If the descriptions of how OW started that have surfaced on various sites in the last week are to be believed, Sister Kelly and others were selected as leaders of OW precisely because they were active members in good standing. I think the OW will continue (though they may have the problem that MormonThink has had getting any active, pretending to be a believing member to be its face.

What information do we have about the origins of the OW group?

 

Is it a legal entity (a nonprofit 501©(3) corporation, for example)?

 

Who "owns" it?

 

Who are the officers/principals?

 

Where is its headquarters (for legal purposes)?

 

Kate Kelly is often described as a "co-founder" of OW.  Who are the other founders, and why are they seemingly never mentioned by name - just Kate Kelly?

The OW website lists spokesmen: Kate Kelly, Hannah Wheelwright, Lorie Winder, Debra Jensen, April Young Bennett and Suzette Smith. Also listed are Nancy Ross ("Social Media Committee" chair), and Chelsea Shields Strayer and Heather Olson Beal ("Volunteer/Recruitment Committee" co-chairs). Are these also "founders?"

RPN's comment references Kate Kelly "and others" as having been "selected." Who did the selecting?

Kate Kelly has recently expressed public admiration for two notable excommunicated apostates: Margaret Toscano and Lavina Fielding Anderson. We know Margaret Toscano has been directly involved with OW, but in what capacity? And has Lavina Fielding Anderson been involved? How many apostates are involved in the OW group?

When you think about it, the OW group is kinda sorta shadowy. Apart from its public faces (Kate Kelly mostly, and Hannah Wheelwright to a much lesser extent), we know virtually nothing about who was involved in creating, organizing and managing/running this group.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Duncan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordain_Women

 

sounds like Kelly started it

[Storm Rider]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordain_Women

 

sounds like Kelly started it

 

The Wikipedia article conflicts with what has been published in the media.  If she is a co-founder; who are the other co-founders?  If there is a co-founder there must be a least one other individual involved.  

[Duncan]

The Wikipedia article conflicts with what has been published in the media.  If she is a co-founder; who are the other co-founders?  If there is a co-founder there must be a least one other individual involved.  

 

 

the wiki link says she is the founder but other then that can't help ya!

Edited June 24, 2014 by Duncan

[smac97]

the wiki link says she is the founder but other then that can't help ya!

I think the Wikipedia entry was likely written, for the most part, by the OW group.

Thanks,

-Smac

[mormonnewb]

In one of the OW-related threads, RPN made this rather interesting remark:

If the descriptions of how OW started that have surfaced on various sites in the last week are to be believed, Sister Kelly and others were selected as leaders of OW precisely because they were active members in good standing. I think the OW will continue (though they may have the problem that MormonThink has had getting any active, pretending to be a believing member to be its face.

What information do we have about the origins of the OW group? Is it a legal entity (a nonprofit 501©(3) corporation, for example)? Who "owns" it? Who are the officers/principals? Where is its headquarters (for legal purposes)? Kate Kelly is often described as a "co-founder" of OW.  Who are the other founders, and why are they seemingly never mentioned by name - just Kate Kelly?The OW website lists spokesmen: Kate Kelly, Hannah Wheelwright, Lorie Winder, Debra Jensen, April Young Bennett and Suzette Smith. Also listed are Nancy Ross ("Social Media Committee" chair), and Chelsea Shields Strayer and Heather Olson Beal ("Volunteer/Recruitment Committee" co-chairs). Are these also "founders?"RPN's comment references Kate Kelly "and others" as having been "selected." Who did the selecting?Kate Kelly has recently expressed public admiration for two notable excommunicated apostates: Margaret Toscano and Lavina Fielding Anderson. We know Margaret Toscano has been directly involved with OW, but in what capacity? And has Lavina Fielding Anderson been involved? How many apostates are involved in the OW group?When you think about it, the OW group is kinda sorta shadowy. Apart from its public faces (Kate Kelly mostly, and Hannah Wheelwright to a much lesser extent), we know virtually nothing about who was involved in creating, organizing and managing/running this group.Thanks,-Smac

Kinda, sorta shadowy, indeed. Perhaps, it should disclose its finances. Never mind

[smac97]

Kinda, sorta shadowy, indeed. Perhaps, it should disclose its finances. Never mind

I'd appreciate any substantive contributions to this thread, please.

Thanks,

-Smac

[mormonnewb]

 Be nice.  That's an order from the mods.

[Scott Lloyd]

If it really is a front for apostates and anti-Mormons, the public deceit has been brilliantly executed so far.

[eddie]

From my understanding of it, when Kate Kelly was on her mission she was upset when she taught investigators and had them commit to baptism, and then an elder would come and perform the ordinance. She also was upset that all of the district and zone leaders were elders and didn't like they had authority in those roles. She began to tell her companions that when she got home she was going to push for women's ordination to correct those issues. She also had a gained a reputation of "setting the elder's straight." Basically she didn't believe she got enough credit for the things she did as a missionary, nor did she feel like she had enough authority.

Some of her companions were surprised she organized her group when she returned. They thought it was simply idle threats from a frustrated missionary. She started her blog, which by itself really didn't amount to much. In order to gain more attention she came up with the idea of going to the Priesthood Session in the standby line since she was a "prospective elder." In order to make it harder to crack down on people they recruited new members so they could stand as a group. (This was a tactic she learned from other exed members, they told her it would be harder for them to crack down on several people than just one which has been done in the past. However, they warned her no matter how prominent she came to be in the media, if she pushed it too far, they would ex her regardless of any perceived fallout. And they did.)

The movement basically amounts to an online group that is looking to teach their principles. I don't think it has been trademarked or applied for IRS recognition.

The irony of all of this is when a person committed to baptism while I was a missionary, I would encourage the ordinance be performed by a member. It was better for them to get to know someone rather local rather than a missionary that was only there a few months. I never looked at it as a status symbol, I was only glad the individual found the gospel. I think that is what is missing in all of this for her, the priesthood and offices are not an elevation of one over another, it is the way the Lord can bless the worthy and faithful, just as the Relief Society does the same the in their own callings.

Edited June 24, 2014 by eddie

[readstoomuch]

Margaret Toscano has been in a number of photos. Lavina Fielding Anderson still goes to church each week as a nonmember.not sure if she is there or not in OW. KK is married to Nell Ransom and if you search them together you start running into Pro LGBT events they took part in. I see OW being a front for the liberal side of Mormonism. KK seems to have orchestrated her excommunication to become a martyr for this and other causes. I think eventually the LGBT side of OW will come out. IMO.

[rongo]

I had noticed as well that Kate does not carry her husband's last name. Do they have any children?

[readstoomuch]

No children.

[Hamba Tuhan]

If you search them together you start running into Pro LGBT events they took part in.

 

Interesting; you're right. And Marxist-leaning enterprises. I guess it all fits together.

[Calm]

From my understanding of it, when Kate Kelly was on her mission she was upset when she taught investigators and had them commit to baptism, and then an elder would come and perform the ordinance. She also was upset that all of the district and zone leaders were elders and didn't like they had authority in those roles. She began to tell her companions that when she got home she was going to push for women's ordination to correct those issues. She also had a gained a reputation of "setting the elder's straight." Basically she didn't believe she got enough credit for the things she did as a missionary, nor did she feel like she had enough authority.

Some of her companions were surprised she organized her group when she returned. They thought it was simply idle threats from a frustrated missionary. She started her blog, which by itself really didn't amount to much. In order to gain more attention she came up with the idea of going to the Priesthood Session in the standby line since she was a "prospective elder." In order to make it harder to crack down on people they recruited new members so they could stand as a group. (This was a tactic she learned from other exed members, they told her it would be harder for them to crack down on several people than just one which has been done in the past. However, they warned her no matter how prominent she came to be in the media, if she pushed it too far, they would ex her regardless of any perceived fallout. And they did.)

The movement basically amounts to an online group that is looking to teach their principles. I don't think it has been trademarked or applied for IRS recognition.

.

CFR please

[Scott Lloyd]

Margaret Toscano has been in a number of photos. Lavina Fielding Anderson still goes to church each week as a nonmember.not sure if she is there or not in OW. KK is married to Nell Ransom and if you search them together you start running into Pro LGBT events they took part in. I see OW being a front for the liberal side of Mormonism. KK seems to have orchestrated her excommunication to become a martyr for this and other causes. I think eventually the LGBT side of OW will come out. IMO.

Could be.

 

Here's a profile of Kate Kelly in The Washington Blade, an online publication characterizing itself as "America's gay news source."

 

On that web page, she is among a number of individuals profiled as "straight allies making a difference."

 

From the web page:

 

 

Kelly attended her friend’s 2004 same-sex commitment ceremony. Ominous storm clouds had gathered above the garden in which the couple and their friends had gathered, but a rainbow suddenly appeared as the men began to exchange their vows. “It was shockingly beautiful,” Kelly says. “After that ceremony I began to awaken to the possibility that God could approve of a same-sex union.”

 

 

Edited June 24, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[rpn]

To my knowledge there are no firsthand accounts.   In other forums there is an account that I summarized.  (it was about a group talking about how to move the church  and deciding that the priesthood was the best place to start, and this protest the best way to start it, and keeping the former members of the group in the background.)     No I don't think it appropriate to link to other forums. 

 

And I have to say that this thread is categorically offensive to me.   We deserve everything we get when we say stupid things like "does she have any children" or "she didn't take her dh's last name".  

 

And, yes, this does make me the start of the gossip, I suppose.   Which I regret my comment has turned into. 

[ERayR]

From my understanding of it, when Kate Kelly was on her mission she was upset when she taught investigators and had them commit to baptism, and then an elder would come and perform the ordinance. She also was upset that all of the district and zone leaders were elders and didn't like they had authority in those roles. She began to tell her companions that when she got home she was going to push for women's ordination to correct those issues. She also had a gained a reputation of "setting the elder's straight." Basically she didn't believe she got enough credit for the things she did as a missionary, nor did she feel like she had enough authority.

 

Here am I, send me . . .  and the glory will be mine.

[eddie]

CFR please

Okay, as I said this was put together through several articles and sources, here are a few.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/lauradomenica/feminism-in-faith-mormonism?s=mobile

And as a Mormon missionary in Barcelona, Spain, she spent 18 months preaching full time, relinquishing the independence of young adult life. She quickly became known — and a little notorious — for her willingness to speak her mind during an experience that emphasizes obedience. She was not cowed by the male missionaries who worked alongside her, making decisions and performing ordinances Kelly could not. In meetings, she would dismiss their plans if they were too impractical.

“The [male] missionaries were not used to that ... their position of privilege was so invisible to them that it was jarring for someone to say, ‘No, actually, we’re not going to do it that way and I’m not going to listen to you,’” she says.

Kelly says that since founding Ordain Women, almost all of her mission companions have contacted her. “One of them said, ‘I actually remember you talking about [women’s ordination] on the mission. I just didn’t know how serious you were.’”

http://thestudentreview.org/exclusive-interview-with-kate-kelly-from-ordain-women/

You served a mission. Should women serve 2-year missions? Why or why not?

There is no reason to treat young women, eager to serve, any differently.

Sister missionary zone leaders and assistants?

In some missions, sisters do serve in leadership roles already. For example, in the Temple Square mission, where there are no elders currently serving. Priesthood holders, men and women, will enter the field on equal ground.

There were quite a few points I talked about, but these articles hit the main points. Do you want any specific clarifications? I am on a phone right now so long searches are difficult.

[rodheadlee]

 

And I have to say that this thread is categorically offensive to me.   We deserve everything we get when we say stupid things like "does she have any children" or "she didn't take her dh's last name".  

 

And, yes, this does make me the start of the gossip, I suppose.   Which I regret my comment has turned into. 

Why is that offensive? Gathering information to form a better perspective of the person's point of view should not be considered offensive.

[sethpayne]

If it really is a front for apostates and anti-Mormons, the public deceit has been brilliantly executed so far.

 

Well, I suppose some anti-Mormons and "apostates" are involved.  But to characterize the whole group that way is inaccurate, IMO.

 

I have MANY friends who participated in some OW activities and they are all active, believing members of the Church.  They have a point of view which is sincere and they have genuine concerns -- simply because we may not hold the same view or share the same concerns does not mean that they are "apostates" and anti-Mormons.

Edited June 24, 2014 by sethpayne

[nosmelone]

From my understanding of it, when Kate Kelly was on her mission she was upset when she taught investigators and had them commit to baptism, and then an elder would come and perform the ordinance. She also was upset that all of the district and zone leaders were elders and didn't like they had authority in those roles. She began to tell her companions that when she got home she was going to push for women's ordination to correct those issues. She also had a gained a reputation of "setting the elder's straight." Basically she didn't believe she got enough credit for the things she did as a missionary, nor did she feel like she had enough authority.

Some of her companions were surprised she organized her group when she returned. They thought it was simply idle threats from a frustrated missionary. She started her blog, which by itself really didn't amount to much. In order to gain more attention she came up with the idea of going to the Priesthood Session in the standby line since she was a "prospective elder." In order to make it harder to crack down on people they recruited new members so they could stand as a group. (This was a tactic she learned from other exed members, they told her it would be harder for them to crack down on several people than just one which has been done in the past. However, they warned her no matter how prominent she came to be in the media, if she pushed it too far, they would ex her regardless of any perceived fallout. And they did.)

The movement basically amounts to an online group that is looking to teach their principles. I don't think it has been trademarked or applied for IRS recognition.

The irony of all of this is when a person committed to baptism while I was a missionary, I would encourage the ordinance be performed by a member. It was better for them to get to know someone rather local rather than a missionary that was only there a few months. I never looked at it as a status symbol, I was only glad the individual found the gospel. I think that is what is missing in all of this for her, the priesthood and offices are not an elevation of one over another, it is the way the Lord can bless the worthy and faithful, just as the Relief Society does the same the in their own callings.

 A friend of my family served in the same mission at the same time as Kate (never as a companion though) and stated that she had spent some time in an area where the priesthood numbers were few so baptisms, blessings, ordinations etc...all took a little extra effort to get missionaries (elders) or other priesthood holders to answer the call.  This is what I was advised caused some of her first concerns.  I'm sure many of us have been in that situation and I feel that this is understandable to some degree.  But I could see how this frustration could lead to wanting some credit for the efforts put into her work as a missionary.  Then as the saying goes she was wound slowly but surely by a flaxen chord, one thing leading to another until the whole OW movement has lead to her excommunication.  I wish her the best and hope that she can grab ahold of the rod and get back in touch with the teachings of the restored gospel.

[sethpayne]

 

Could be.

 

Here's a profile of Kate Kelly in The Washington Blade, an online publication characterizing itself as "America's gay news source."

 

On that web page, she is among a number of individuals profiled as "straight allies making a difference."

 

From the web page:

 

 

 

 

 

Have you seen that Maxine Hanks has come out in support of Kelly?  Not necessarily in her approach etc... but she has made it clear that she believes excommunication was an extreme move here.

 

Is she too an anti-Mormon?  Hardly.  She speaks as one who has been through this experience.

 

Painting with broad, inaccurate strokes, helps no one in situations like this.  

Edited June 24, 2014 by sethpayne

[sethpayne]

According to my sources, OW's origins reach all the way back to 1776 in Bavaria.

 

It all started with this bloke, apparently.

 

[readstoomuch]

I don`t see much of an attack or gossip for that matter on this thread. Kate Kelly has pushed herself into the limelight and the mess ended up on the New York Times front page yesterday. Given the amount of strife that OW has caused in my own family and the damage the Church has undergone in this regard, it is reasonable to ask how the movement started and the facts related to Kate Kelly. I do not see her not having children or not taking her husband`s name as rude questions.

The facts as I read them are that she and her husband Neil Ransom are proponents for the LGBT cause. This included the idea that SSM would eventually take place in the temple. Search the issues for yourself. I would have been more than happy to let KK have her privacy. No one should be mean and by all means I hope she can come back to the kingdom. Her agenda is much bigger than the priesthood for women, though. IMO.