John Dehlin Attempting To Change Bishop's Interviews

[ALarson]

I don't see that this has been posted here, and I didn't want to derail the other thread.  Here's the latest request from John Dehlin that is being posted on other sites online:

 

I just heard this week about another bishop recently asking a teenage girl if she masturbated. I want to do a Mormon Stories podcast specifically targeting this practice (i.e., grown men asking young girls about masturbation and other sexual topics alone, in a room, behind a closed door). I'm also very interested in discussing ward and stake disciplinary counsels wherein a group of men discuss explicit sexual details with/about a woman in a way that is shaming.

Does anyone else have stories they would be willing to share publicly on a podcast? Or, have you been a PART of such scenarios (as a current or former leader)? If so, please message me directly. And thanks a ton. This is super important...and we're gonna stop this.

 

 

I guess there are many who have had some bad experiences with interviews (or disciplinary counsels) or with their teen children's interviews.  Some now insist on being present in any interviews between their child and the Bishop.

 

Many have also suggested that Dehlin take this to the press and expose what has happened regarding some being asked inappropriate questions behind closed doors with an adult male.

 

I have not ever had a bad experience myself nor have any of children (that I know of).  Any thoughts on this?

[thesometimesaint]

I don't see that this has been posted here, and I didn't want to derail the other thread.  Here's the latest request from John Dehlin that is being posted on other sites online:

 

 

I guess there are many who have had some bad experiences with interviews (or disciplinary counsels) or with their teen children's interviews.  Some now insist on being present in any interviews between their child and the Bishop.

 

Many have also suggested that Dehlin take this to the press and expose what has happened regarding some being asked inappropriate questions behind closed doors with an adult male.

 

I have not ever had a bad experience myself nor have any of children (that I know of).  Any thoughts on this?

 

When someone is looking for an excuse any will do.

[cinepro]

I never had a Bishop ask me about "masturbation" specifically".

 

But as long as such an act violates the Lord's standard of morality, I can't imagine why it would be improper for a Bishop to ask about it.  That's his job.  I can understand some Bishops might be over-zealous and tactless, but Dehlin isn't ever going to be able to fix that.

[ksfisher]

  "Some now insist on being present in any interviews between their child and the Bishop."

 

 

 

 

I don't see how this could be helpful at all.  If a person (child, youth, adult, etc) has something to confess how would having their parents in the room be helpful? 

Edited April 30, 2014 by ksfisher

[stemelbow]

I think we're at a point where it'll be impossible that a bishop or the church will not be subject to public outcries because of this. Some gal and/or her parents will cry foul in a loud way one of these days, if it already hasn't happened. Is every bishop to be trusted with some of these kids? I have a hard time thinking there isn't a creepy bishop who shouldn't be doing these types of interviews. If there is a possibility of one wayward bishop drawing in a kid then I say it's probably a good idea to figure out some pretty good rules and alternatives, at the very least.

I'm not sure about the necessity of this practice though. Kids should be able to go to their parents first and foremost.

[stemelbow]

"Some now insist on being present in any interviews between their child and the Bishop."

 

 

 

 

I don't see how this could be helpful at all.  If a person (child, youth, adult, etc) has something to confess how would having their parents in the room be helpful?

Parents should be aware of it before the bishop, in my mind. Kids should not feel it best to go to another person outside the family. They should feel it best to go to their parents. I don't see how this is a problem.

[Calm]

However, having a parent in the room may prevent those interviewed confiding they've been abused by family members.

[ALarson]

However, having a parent in the room may prevent those interviewed confiding they've been abused by family members.

This is so true.

 

I don't know.  I have somewhat mixed feelings about this as I think more on it.  Bishops are human too and we know there have been instances where they have abused their power or influence.  

 

But, I know that my Bishop always leaves the door ajar a few inches when he's interviewing a sister or a youth and he always makes sure there is another person present in the building (usually sitting outside in the hallway or in the ward clerk's office).  He is very, very careful and aware of what accusations would lead to.  

 

I know that the great majority of Bishops and leaders are very careful as well.

[The Nehor]

Kids should be able to go to their parents first and foremost.

In the same way they should be able to go to their bishop.

I would honestly be more worried about abusive parents then abusive bishops. If I were a bishop and some parents insisted I never interview their child alone I would be suspicious of the parent.

[Bob Crockett]

The Catholics and certain Evangelical groups require confession like this. I wonder how he feels about that.

[Gray]

I think we're at a point where it'll be impossible that a bishop or the church will not be subject to public outcries because of this. Some gal and/or her parents will cry foul in a loud way one of these days, if it already hasn't happened. Is every bishop to be trusted with some of these kids? I have a hard time thinking there isn't a creepy bishop who shouldn't be doing these types of interviews. If there is a possibility of one wayward bishop drawing in a kid then I say it's probably a good idea to figure out some pretty good rules and alternatives, at the very least.

I'm not sure about the necessity of this practice though. Kids should be able to go to their parents first and foremost.

 

 

Agreed on all points

[Gray]

However, having a parent in the room may prevent those interviewed confiding they've been abused by family members.

 

A possibility, but I think bishops sometimes focus on trying to rehabilitate the abuser rather than going to the police. Better to tell a teacher

[Calm]

How often is a kid allowed to be alone with a teacher these days?

I think it is wise to have a number of options open for children in hopes of there being one they are comfortable enough to confide in.

Edited April 30, 2014 by calmoriah

[Buzzard]

A possibility, but I think bishops sometimes focus on trying to rehabilitate the abuser rather than going to the police. Better to tell a teacher

Oh, big time CFR. This used to happen maybe 20 years ago, but the church is crystal clear in training bishops these days. The first thing they are instructed to to is call the church hotline where church lawyers know what the rules are by jurisdiction. The only time that the next call would not be to the police is if the perpetrator confessed directly. And in some jurisdictions, even that circumstance called the "seal of the confessional" does not stand. 

[MichelleD]

Maybe it's just the manner of questioning that needs to change (by some bishops). Instead of asking probing, explicit questions such as described in the OP, a bishop should simply ask if there is anything they need to confess or take care of or talk about. I would think that most parents would be fine with that.

[Buzzard]

By the way, the ONLY time that I was asked directly if I masturbated was in my mission interview by the stake president. Never once by either of the bishops I had growing up. And this was in the "bad old days".

[Buzzard]

Maybe it's just the manner of questioning that needs to change (by some bishops). Instead of asking probing, explicit questions such as described in the OP, a bishop should simply ask if there is anything they need to confess or take care of or talk about. I would think that most parents would be fine with that.

That's exactly where we are these days. Bishops ask if they are keeping the law of chastity, and perhaps what is their understanding of the law of chastity. Direct, explicit questions only seem to get asked of young women recording it for release to MormonThink.

[stemelbow]

In the same way they should be able to go to their bishop.

I would honestly be more worried about abusive parents then abusive bishops. If I were a bishop and some parents insisted I never interview their child alone I would be suspicious of the parent.

However, having a parent in the room may prevent those interviewed confiding they've been abused by family members.

As I understand it sometimes in the past when abuses have been reported to bishops, bishops have sat on it. I hope that doesn't ever happen again. If a child is being abused by the parents, then the child should have the ability to go to police. if they can't do that, then perhaps a bishop is a good alternative.

[pogi]

I have heard it proposed by OW that they would like to see girls going to the Relief Society President for sexually related transgressions.  I don't think that it would be wise to bypass the judge in Israel, but perhaps it might not be a bad idea to allow them to go to the RS President initially (If they feel more comfortable with that) who could then involve the Bishop in follow up meetings together.  

[Calm]

Bishops are human. Same with police. And teachers. I am not sure how one can totally avoid error so to say it will never happen again where rules are ignored with good intentions would be being unrealistic. However, I think it is better to have a society more concerned with spirit of the law than letter, though at times that may mean mistakes are made.

[bjw]

I think the only questions that should be asked are the ones in the book. Anything else like the one in the op is inappropriate. If I had a daughter I know I wouldn't want probing questions of this sort being asked. The only question should be is if she's keeping the law of chastity.

[Spammer]

The Catholics and certain Evangelical groups require confession like this. I wonder how he feels about that.

 

LDS and Catholic confession are very different.  Catholic priests don't schedule confession appointments nor do they have a list of worthiness questions in hand in the confessional.  During confession, the parishioner only speaks what happens to be on his or her mind.  It can also be completely anonymous, if desired.  There's no requirement to go to your own parish priest.  

[stemelbow]

Bishops are human. Same with police. And teachers. I am not sure how one can totally avoid error so to say it will never happen again where rules are ignored with good intentions would be being unrealistic. However, I think it is better to have a society more concerned with spirit of the law than letter, though at times that may mean mistakes are made.

Yeah...Abusing children is just a tough topic and really brings out the red flags and caution. So I can appreciate the some parents might be pretty uncomfortable with this arrangement, particularly if the bishop gives them reason to feel uncomfortable about it. I hate to think about it, because in many cases there's not much we can do. Abuse is going to happen. It sucks.

[ALarson]

Bishops are human. Same with police. And teachers. I am not sure how one can totally avoid error so to say it will never happen again where rules are ignored with good intentions would be being unrealistic. However, I think it is better to have a society more concerned with spirit of the law than letter, though at times that may mean mistakes are made.

I do know that males are not allowed to teach primary without another adult teaching with them.  Maybe both the Bishop and a counselor should be present when interviewing the youth?  I don't know.  

 

I feel this is just as much for the protection of the Bishop as it is for the youth.  One false accusation is devastating to all involved.  I'm not discounting those who have had a bad experience, but the adult leaders need to be considered too.

[Calm]

Unfortunately then you have the confidentiality issue going on...one is enough IMO to confess to and a bishop will unlikely know ahead when a routine interview leads to either a confession or an appeal for help for abuse or something else difficult to say.

I think having the door open with someone sitting outside who can see but not hear is best, perhaps even with the added condition being shared the individual needs only to look directly at that individual for the interview to be interrupted with a quiet "is everything okay" question....

Maybe recording all underage interviews and placing them out of reach of ward and stake members to prevent destruction or listening to except in abuse or legal situations? But I think there would have to be some sort of guarantee a parent couldn't force access to a recording.

Edited April 30, 2014 by calmoriah