JulieM Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 It looks like others have given you some scriptural references already. I found this (apparently it is in the general handbook of instructions, but I can't find it) - "Sins that require confession to the bishop are breaking the Word of Wisdom, apostasy, breaking the Law of Chastity, and crimes as defined by the local government."Do you have a reference that explains or defines what the "Law Of Chastity" includes or states? I'm just curious if the big "M" is included in it.I am definitely not comfortable with any church leaders asking this explicit question to my kids (especially to my young daughter). I have to believe there are more bishops who do not ask about this.
Scott Lloyd Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Do you have a reference that explains or defines what the "Law Of Chastity" includes or states? I'm just curious if the big "M" is included in it.I am definitely not comfortable with any church leaders asking this explicit question to my kids (especially to my young daughter). I have to believe there are more bishops who do not ask about this.What to you constitutes a reference? Will you accept General Authority teachings from the conference pulpit? Edited April 30, 2014 by Scott Lloyd
JulieM Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 What to you constitutes a reference? Will you accept General Authority teachings from conference pulpit?I just see many references to the "Law of Chastity" and I was wondering where that law is defined? I sincerely would like to read it.
Scott Lloyd Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) I just see many references to the "Law of Chastity" and I was wondering where that law is defined? I sincerely would like to read it.So is your answer to my question yes or no? At any rate, it is explained here. Edited April 30, 2014 by Scott Lloyd 1
ERayR Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 I think we're at a point where it'll be impossible that a bishop or the church will not be subject to public outcries because of this. Some gal and/or her parents will cry foul in a loud way one of these days, if it already hasn't happened. Is every bishop to be trusted with some of these kids? I have a hard time thinking there isn't a creepy bishop who shouldn't be doing these types of interviews. If there is a possibility of one wayward bishop drawing in a kid then I say it's probably a good idea to figure out some pretty good rules and alternatives, at the very least.I'm not sure about the necessity of this practice though. Kids should be able to go to their parents first and foremost. It's the Bishops job and some kids just can't/won't go to their parents. 2
Tacenda Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 It really is a lawsuit waiting to happen. An older man asks a teenage girl alone in a room if she masturbates.At my last job as a manager I wasn't even allowed to have a coaching conversation with a female staff member without another female present.If she is made to feel at all uncomfortable in a discussion about sex and it's the Bishop's word vs. the teenage girl's word there could easily be legal issues.I think it's appropriate for a bishop to speak to "the youth" about a topic of morality such as this, but to question a minor about their sexual activity behind closed doors without a parent present...that's got to break some law.I remember a counselor of a bishopric when I was a young woman, that interviewed me, in a classroom by the door sitting nearly knee to knee. Can't remember if the door was closed, but it scared me to death getting questioned like that and he was totally weird. Don't recall any other bishopric member like that, and it was right around the time my sister quit going to YW's. She hasn't been active since high school. I've often wondered if it was these interviews that turn her off.
ERayR Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 A possibility, but I think bishops sometimes focus on trying to rehabilitate the abuser rather than going to the police. Better to tell a teacher Strictly against Church guidelines. Abuse is supposed to be reported within 24 hours after calling a hotline for guidance and help through the process. 1
JulieM Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 So is your answer to my question yes or no? At any rate, it is explained here.Sorry, I didn't mean to not answer you. Thank you so much for the link as it's exactly what I was looking for.
ERayR Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 He's the only one who dares speak against church policy. And has such a following, that the church might be susceptible to it. Who else would be able to come out against? Someone that cares about his/her standing in the church? I don't think so. I see you are in favor of governing the Church by consensus. Sorry that's not how God's church works. 2
Duncan Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Strictly against Church guidelines. Abuse is supposed to be reported within 24 hours after calling a hotline for guidance and help through the process. when that happened to me, no one called the cops I never thought about it.I never told my parents-still haven't. I told my Bishop and it got dealt with but in a flip flopsy flurvy turvy manner and it was one of the worst experiences of my life. I am glad though things have changed though I suspect it depends on who the Bishop is 1
Scott Lloyd Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) Sorry, I didn't mean to not answer you. Thank you so much for the link as it's exactly what I was looking for.I had in mind a conference talk given by Elder Richard G. Scott. I haven't found it yet, but I think the link to the Institute manual explains the matter quite well. Edited May 1, 2014 by Scott Lloyd
Pahoran Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I don't see that this has been posted here, and I didn't want to derail the other thread. Here's the latest request from John Dehlin that is being posted on other sites online: I guess there are many who have had some bad experiences with interviews (or disciplinary counsels) or with their teen children's interviews. Some now insist on being present in any interviews between their child and the Bishop. Many have also suggested that Dehlin take this to the press and expose what has happened regarding some being asked inappropriate questions behind closed doors with an adult male. I have not ever had a bad experience myself nor have any of children (that I know of). Any thoughts on this? Dehlin is starting a heroic crusade against a discontinued practice. IOw, he's bravely tilting against a demolished windmill. Regards, Pahoran 2
sethpayne Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 It sounds to me it depends if you really believe if Bishops are called of God or not. I find it odd the different toleraences LDS society has wether to question a leader or not. I don't think so. Any person called of God is fallible and capable of making mistakes, being inappropriate, etc... When it comes to our kids we have the responsibility to be mindful and careful. If we put these Bishops up on a pedestal, they are sure to fall in our eyes. I think we can show respect for their calling and office while still maintaining boundaries etc... 1
Pahoran Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Of all people, Dehlin would be among the last people I would trust to tackle a matter like this with the sensitivity and wisdom it warrants. What Scott said. Regards, Pahoran 1
MichelleD Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Dehlin is starting a heroic crusade against a discontinued practice. IOw, he's bravely tilting against a demolished windmill.Regards,PahoranWhat are you referring to when you say "discontinued practice"? Certainly not bishop's interviews or youth being asked sexual questions alone behind closed doors. I know for a fact they are still going on in our ward. Has something changed?
Pahoran Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 What are you referring to when you say "discontinued practice"? Certainly not bishop's interviews or youth being asked sexual questions alone behind closed doors. I know for a fact they are still going on in our ward. Has something changed? Yes.Years ago, in fact. Regards,Pahoran
MichelleD Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Yes.Years ago, in fact. Regards,PahoranMaybe they were supposed to be? But, that most certainly hasn't happened. They have definitely not been discontinued and take place every week.CFR that these intervews were discontinued.
Gohan Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) Yes.Years ago, in fact. Regards,PahoranBYU-I hasn't gotten the memo on that one. My first semester there after my mission, in 2011, we were all having our 'get-to-know-you' interviews with the bishop. He didn't even ask my name, first question out of his mouth was, "Do you 'm'?" followed with, "And when was the last time you did?" before I could open my mouth. It was a rather unsettling experience, no feeling of the spirit from him at all. I asked the other elders in my quorum and the vast majority said he'd asked the same thing with them. It was just a shadow of things to come, the entire semester was a nightmare. Most of us moved to a different ward when it was over. So while it is policy, it seems that a number of bishops feel comfortable ignoring the fact that they're not supposed to ask. Edited May 1, 2014 by Gohan
mormonnewb Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I see you are in favor of governing the Church by consensus. Sorry that's not how God's church works.Is this our position -- that every single policy of the Church is determined by God Himself and therefore, members should just "shut up" about it?
Pahoran Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Maybe they were supposed to be? But, that most certainly hasn't happened. They have definitely not been discontinued and take place every week.CFR that these intervews were discontinued. I suggest you read back through the thread. Regards,Pahoran
MichelleD Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Dehlin is starting a heroic crusade against a discontinued practice. IOw, he's bravely tilting against a demolished windmill.Regards,PahoranAgain, CFR that this is a discontinued practice. (And I have read this entire thread.)
Stargazer Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I never had a Bishop ask me about "masturbation" specifically". But as long as such an act violates the Lord's standard of morality, I can't imagine why it would be improper for a Bishop to ask about it. That's his job. I can understand some Bishops might be over-zealous and tactless, but Dehlin isn't ever going to be able to fix that. When I got my first interview from a bishop, just after I was baptized in 1966 at age 15, I don't recall him asking me if I did this. I do recall him saying that it was something we weren't supposed to do as priesthood holders. Given that the bishop must deal with the matter of priesthood worthiness, it seems appropriate to ask if a young man has a problem with this. But since no such worthiness issue exists for young women, there is no reason to ask, even if the bishop feels he should at least mention it as something that is an unworthy activity.
Stargazer Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 This is Reason #234,210 that I'm happy that I'll never be called to be a bishop. I can think of few things that would be more uncomfortable than sitting down with a teenager to discuss his/her "sexual purity." Under NO circumstances would I have this conversation behind closed doors. I'd INSIST that the doors (and windows) were open, that at least one parent was present, along with a Notary Public, and that the whole thing was broadcast live on YouTube. The fact that this practice has produced so little mayhem to date is a testament to the quality of men that we call as bishops. However, I strongly suspect that this practice will have to change in the near future as it is simply far too "creepy" from an optics standpoint alone. Maybe you would want to take Nixon's example to heart, and tape it all, secretly. I think there is almost literally ZERO chance I would ever be called to be a bishop, but if I were, I would give serious consideration to this. And I am not kidding.
Buzzard Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I agree and we'll see if he makes a difference. I do believe that John Dehlin cares a great deal about the members of the church and he must feel that some have been hurt or affected by some of the current Bishop interview practices. I feel his anger is towards the leaders, not the members. But, I really don't know him and I do not follow him on facebook, etc. I might be completely wrong here but this is my impression of him.Dehlin is a legend in his own mind. He considers himself called to make whatever changes he thinks are good to the church and to be wiser than the FP and Qof12 combined. 4
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