The Dark Side Of The Doctrine Of Eternal Familes

[Spammer]

I'll try to keep this very brief. My wife and I married in the SLC temple. I left the church in spirit a few years later and left it officially ten years after that. The interim for me was spent in atheism, rearing our kids, regular church attendance with the family, and simultaneous maintenance of the illusion that I was a believer - put another way, I lied to church leaders, members, and my own children about what I really believed. I accepted church callings, took part in church charitable works, and helped my wife teach the kids things I did not believe. The years of duplicity took its toll on me and culminated into a gradual, sure fall into extreme anger and bitterness. I only began climbing out of that pit after turning back to Christ and being baptized into a different church. I went public with this information and everything changed for my wife. Although I had begun to heal, my decision to go public with my apostasy and quit lying deeply wounded her and disrupted the family harmony. I admit my culpability. She didn't bargain on a temple marriage that would culminate in a part-member reality. But she also didn't bargain on encountering the dark side of teachings about eternal families.

 

The doctrine is beautiful, but the negative spiritual and, especially, social implications for families where one spouse falls away are stark. It's bad enough for my poor wife to know that in the eyes of the church we're no longer married eternally. What's worse (for her) is the overnight change in how she is treated by church members when my apostasy becomes general knowledge in the ward. We have lived in four wards since I left the church (including the ward we were in when I did the dirty deed), and the result is always the same. In every ward, the members are genuinely friendly, open, and caring towards me, until they find out why I won't be giving any talks or accepting any church callings or attending elder's quorum. People are still nice, but the nature of our interactions are changed. Awkwardness and discomfort permeates everything. Gradually, people begin to keep their distance. It's my fault, since I don't participate in any meetings or activities at all except for the occasional sacrament mtg and gospel doctrine, and only when my wife is there with me. Personally, I'm fine with people avoiding me like the plague. I don't care. But it really bothers me when my wife is suddenly treated very differently, just because members, especially the relief society sisters, find out about me. That's when the dark side of mormon teachings about eternal families begins to show itself. The sister missionaries never, ever visit us - until people find out about me. That's when they take a sudden interest in my wife. In every ward, when the truth is known, several sisters ask my wife such things as "Doesn't your husband love you anymore?" "How can he do that?" "Do you think he had/is having an affair?" "Doesn't he want to be married to you forever?" This happens in every single ward and it kills her. She thinks, no matter how well-meaning, she's talked about behind her back. I heard church members talking about apostates and their families all of my life, all 40+ years of my active church attendance, so I'm sure she's not wrong. The fact that missionaries suddenly start showing up at our home just adds to my wife's sense that our family is a "project" for the ward. All my wife wants is to be treated exactly like every other sister in the ward is treated. But it's my belief that the gossip results from the insidious (to me) belief that she will only be married to me in the highest level of the celestial kingdom if I repent, am rebaptized, and return to my family priesthood duties as husband and father. This is something I will never do. That means at death our marriage will be sundered and my wife will be given to another man, if she has hopes to be exalted. In my mind, that easily explains the pity party always shown to my wife, and the vicious gossip about me and my alleged infidelities and/or lack of love for her, when people find out about me. It also explains why hearing mention of eternal families at church (which is every single week) makes her very sad.

 

All of this is complicated by my older son's refusal to attend church anymore. He's 15, very smart and a 4.0 honors student, and of an age to make up his own mind about what he believes about spiritual matters. I don't deny my influence on him, though it is never intended to destroy his belief in the church (despite what some of my family members have told me). I've encouraged him to read the Book of Mormon for himself and pray. He says no thanks. The ward gossip my wife hears about me, and her reasonable conviction that she's a project, means that she has no desire to go to church with only part of her family and stick out like a sore thumb. It understandably makes her sad. The commentary and looks she gets infuriates her. So she's simultaneously sad and angry on Sundays. It also understandably makes her fear having to sit there knowing what people are thinking about me and taking pity on her. So it's a battle every Sunday to get the entire family to church with my wife. Sundays pretty much suck in our house. My poor wife. It's not enough that I'm there with her at church. She's treated completely differently now that I'm out of the closet about my beliefs. The fact that I'm no longer a member is seemingly more important to church members than the fact that I'm a Christian man who loves my family with all my heart.

 

IMO, all of this negativity that my wife experiences - the gossip about me, the pity, the project - is directly caused by the belief that salvation in the highest heaven requires an eternal marriage. It's my belief that no matter how wonderful and beautiful the idea of eternal families is, the doctrine can ruin part-member families like mine through the negative influence and behavior of church members who, no matter how well meaning, manifest pity, make families like mine a project, and gossip about those like me who leave the church. It's my belief that church members can't help it. The church is true. Joseph Smith is a prophet. People like me never have a good reason to leave and violate my temple covenants. I get it. I do support my wife's participation in church but it's obvious to me that she's being slowly pushed away by the behavior of church members. I see it happening. If she wasn't so obviously unhappy about it, it would make me very happy for church members to push her away and have the chance that she will one day join me and leave the church. But I'm not happy at all because she loves going to church and she's so unhappy at feeling like a fish out of water at church. My poor wife. This is the dark side of Mormon teaching. Teachings about eternal families are only good and healthy for families where both spouses are active, believing members.  Maybe someone in this forum has connections on high and can say something or share my experience. This needs to be a conference talk, to put an end to this kind of shaming and gossip. It can be Part 2 to Uchtdorf's effort to put an end to speculation about why people leave the church.

Sorry, that wasn't very brief.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Spammer

[Calm]

Have you talked to the bishop about it (sorry if you mentioned it, I have a problem reading a block of text, you might want to break it up for those who like me have eyes that skip around). If you haven't, perhaps he might give a lesson on how to better treat and support a part member family.

Edited April 21, 2014 by calmoriah

[Spammer]

Have you talked to the bishop about it (sorry if you mentioned it, I have a problem reading a block of text, you might want to break it up for those who like me have eyes that skip around). If you haven't, perhaps he might give a lesson on how to better treat and support a part member family.

I've only talked to the bishop in our current ward about the issue.  I only recently found out about all of the things relief society sisters were saying to her about me in our three prior wards.  My wife finally came clean about it when explaining why she refuses to go to church without all of us going with her.  Our experience suggests that the problem is universal.  My wife has felt the pity and heard the gossip in two southeast wards, one southern ward, and an overseas ward.  Talking to bishops won't help at all.  The next time we move she'll have to go through it all over again.  That really stinks.  I guess all I'm hoping for with this post is that somehow someone with some actual influence might become aware of the issue.  I really don't want to seem confrontational with this post and I'm not interested in causing any debates.  I won't be changing my belief that the behavior is caused by the teaching nor my belief that nothing will change unless HQ gets involved.  I just wish this kind of thing would cease for my wife's sake.  I know my wife knows I love her.  That helps her.  So does my question when I ask her if she things Heavenly Father will really break up our family just because I don't belief the unprovable proposition that Joseph Smith was a prophet.  Deep down, she doesn't believe that will happen.  She hangs on to that and I suppose that also makes me fortunate.  I know a few people whose spouses divorced them when they did what I did.  So far, my wife is more upset with church members than with me. 

 

I broke up my block of text.  Thanks for the advice.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Spammer

[Buckeye]

Are there any other sisters in the ward in a similar situation?  In most wards there are dozens of women whose husbands are non-members / inactive / apostate / etc.  I would expect them to show understanding and empathy for your wife considering that they've walked the same road. 

 

For what it's worth, in my experience the members who react negatively do so because they have their own serious doubts.  Those who have strong testimonies are less likely to view you (and your views) as a threat.  I use the analogy of a drowing swimmer.  If a loved one is drowing and you are in a secure spot, you worry about them and try to save them, but you do so rationally by throwing a life ring or extending a pole.  If, however, you are in the water yourself and you don't know how to swim, you're very likely to push your loved one under the water in a panic to save yourself. 

 

All the best.

[rpn]

Don't have any connections.   And wasn't it Elder Nelson a few years ago that reminded everyone that leaders do not teach exceptions --- that any member who feels themselves to be one, needed to take that to the Lord themselves.

 

But I am sorry for your family struggles.   I've often thought that families that include members who leave get to experience for themselves, what makes God God ---- Unconditional Love, and Agency.   Pretty powerful and important knowledge, that can change life.   Thank you for honoring her wish and going to church with her as she sorts it out.  

[Kenngo1969]

This site may be of help:

 

http://www.faceseast.org/forum/

 

Best wishes to you both.

[The Nehor]

Welp, I guess we should throw the doctrine away then.

[Calm]

Even if someone addresses it from up top (I think there have been articles in the Ensign though they might not be spot on what you are talking about) it would take awhile for a whole church attitude change. We have been commanded since forever not to gossip and yet there are still many who do so.

I am sorry for the pain, but don't really know of any solution we aren't already taught...it just hasn't been taken to heart by enough members.

Is there a sister she is close enough to who understands or would understand and who could run interference for her and where stuff slips through be there in support?

The support group idea of those in similar situations (faces east) sounds like it may be the best bet.

[teddyaware]

Years of lies, duplicity and betrayal have taken a serious toll. It's always best to be upfront and honest rather than live a lie. One can't help but wonder how things might have turned out if you had been forthright and transparent right from the start?

 

My deepest sympathies go out to your wife. My counsel to her would be that if she goes to Church with a big smile on her face and exudes strength of spirit, a beaming confidence and radiates kindness and love -- rather than acting like she's going to a funeral each week (I'm surmising this) -- things will very likely turn around for her almost overnight. I know whereof I speak: Although my traumatizing situation was quite different from hers, once I screwed up the courage and faith to exude joy, lightheartedness, happiness and confidence to the members of my ward, almost in an instant they stopped treating me distantly and awkwardly -- now everything is hunky dory. It's hard to treat a happy and  gregarious person as if they're a pariah...

Edited April 21, 2014 by teddyaware

[Spammer]

Are there any other sisters in the ward in a similar situation?  In most wards there are dozens of women whose husbands are non-members / inactive / apostate / etc.  I would expect them to show understanding and empathy for your wife considering that they've walked the same road. 

 

For what it's worth, in my experience the members who react negatively do so because they have their own serious doubts.  Those who have strong testimonies are less likely to view you (and your views) as a threat.  I use the analogy of a drowing swimmer.  If a loved one is drowing and you are in a secure spot, you worry about them and try to save them, but you do so rationally by throwing a life ring or extending a pole.  If, however, you are in the water yourself and you don't know how to swim, you're very likely to push your loved one under the water in a panic to save yourself. 

 

All the best.

 

I don't know.  I know my wife has some friends in the current ward, but the toxicity from some sisters in prior wards has poisoned the well.  She's struggling and that's why I posted.  I've tried saying that church members who say those things mean well and that the reason families like ours become a 'project' is because they're motivated by what they believe and they want to help.  Don't take it personally.  Unfortunately, the damage has been done.  I don't make much of a dent.

[JDave]

once I screwed up the courage and faith to exude joy, lightheartedness, happiness and confidence to the members of my ward, almost in an instant they stopped treating me distantly and awkwardly -- now everything is hunky dory. It's hard to treat a happy and  gregarious person as if they're a pariah...

For some people that takes courage and faith, while for others it takes desperation and an overwhelming desire to fit in, and for others it is physically impossible.  For some it could be the right thing to do, and yet for others it will cause more damage over the long run.  I am glad that it worked for you, but it is not a general solution.

 

It's unfortunate that this is an expectation for some (too many). 

"Well, I better distance myself until they figure themselves out.  ...   ...   ...   ...   ...   ...   ...   ...   ...  Oh, look!  They're acting happy.  Thank goodness that awkwardness is over.  Now I can talk to them again!" 

There are people who actually wait until everything is hunky dory, when they could've been there helping things to become hunky dory -- or even to just become a litte bit better.

Edited April 22, 2014 by JDave

[Spammer]

Don't have any connections.   And wasn't it Elder Nelson a few years ago that reminded everyone that leaders do not teach exceptions --- that any member who feels themselves to be one, needed to take that to the Lord themselves.

 

But I am sorry for your family struggles.   I've often thought that families that include members who leave get to experience for themselves, what makes God God ---- Unconditional Love, and Agency.   Pretty powerful and important knowledge, that can change life.   Thank you for honoring her wish and going to church with her as she sorts it out.  

 

Thanks, I too believe in a God who is unconditional Love and filled with mercy.  That means I don't believe God will split up families just because one of the spouses doesn't believe in certain unprovable propositions. 

[Spammer]

This site may be of help:

 

http://www.faceseast.org/forum/

 

Best wishes to you both.

 

Thanks. 

[Spammer]

Welp, I guess we should throw the doctrine away then.

 

Best suggestion yet.    Would you please call Pres. Monson and have that done?  I'd really appreciate it!

[Spammer]

Even if someone addresses it from up top (I think there have been articles in the Ensign though they might not be spot on what you are talking about) it would take awhile for a whole church attitude change. We have been commanded since forever not to gossip and yet there are still many who do so.

I am sorry for the pain, but don't really know of any solution we aren't already taught...it just hasn't been taken to heart by enough members.

Is there a sister she is close enough to who understands or would understand and who could run interference for her and where stuff slips through be there in support?

The support group idea of those in similar situations (faces east) sounds like it may be the best bet.

 

I'll show her Faces East.  It might help.  My thanks to you and Kenngo for the suggestion.

[Spammer]

Years of lies, duplicity and betrayal have taken a serious toll. It's always best to be upfront and honest rather than live a lie. One can't help but wonder how things might have turned out if you had been forthright and transparent right from the start?

 

My deepest sympathies go out to your wife. My counsel to her would be that if she goes to Church with a big smile on her face and exudes strength of spirit, a beaming confidence and radiates kindness and love -- rather than acting like she's going to a funeral each week (I'm surmising this) -- things will very likely turn around for her almost overnight. I know whereof I speak: Although my traumatizing situation was quite different from hers, once I screwed up the courage and faith to exude joy, lightheartedness, happiness and confidence to the members of my ward, almost in an instant they stopped treating me distantly and awkwardly -- now everything is hunky dory. It's hard to treat a happy and  gregarious person as if they're a pariah...

 

Yup, the lies and duplicity definitely took their toll.  It was a self-betrayal, no doubt (I certainly don't believe I betrayed my wife in any way in following my heart, though I understand why church members would think I did.  I don't think that's what you're saying, just to be clear).  My wife smiles at church.  The problem is the lack of smiles at home on Sunday mornings and Wednesday evenings (mutual).  I've suggested that she'll have a better result with the older boy if she smiles, invites him, announces she's going to church even if by herself, and actually leave home for church smiling, but she refuses to attend church by herself ever, for the reasons I've described.  Too many comments have been made, too much gossip.  Some might call it pride, but I don't care.  She's hurting and I won't hurt her further by judging her. 

[teddyaware]

Yup, the lies and duplicity definitely took their toll.  It was a self-betrayal, no doubt (I certainly don't believe I betrayed my wife in any way in following my heart, though I understand why church members would think I did.  I don't think that's what you're saying, just to be clear).  My wife smiles at church.  The problem is the lack of smiles at home on Sunday mornings and Wednesday evenings (mutual).  I've suggested that she'll have a better result with the older boy if she smiles, invites him, announces she's going to church even if by herself, and actually leave home for church smiling, but she refuses to attend church by herself ever, for the reasons I've described.  Too many comments have been made, too much gossip.  Some might call it pride, but I don't care.  She's hurting and I won't hurt her further by judging her.

I deeply sympathize because I've been there. But to make myself more clear, I don't mean that your wife should put on an act; like you said, that can be very destructive as well. What I'm talking about is rising from the ashes of despair by supreme faith in the living God and His Christ. One thing the LDS faith teaches very clearly is that except for a relatively small number of the sons of perdition there is going to be a very positive outcome for everyone (including you and your son), for all the rest will eventually come unto Christ and bow the knee to Him and be saved in unimaginable glory one of the heavenly mansions of God.

37 And the (the sons of perdition are the) only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;

38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord...

39 For all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father before the worlds were made.

40 And this is the gospel, the glad tidings, which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us—

41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness (this means everybody will eventually be saved except for the relative few known as the son's of perdition). (D&C 76)

 

So as you can see, from an LDS point of view your dear wife has every reason to rise from the ashes in joy and confidence.

Edited April 22, 2014 by teddyaware

[Sleeper Cell]

I'll try to keep this very brief. My wife and I married in the SLC temple. I left the church in spirit a few years later and left it officially ten years after that. ...Although I had begun to heal, my decision to go public with my apostasy and quit lying deeply wounded her and disrupted the family harmony. I admit my culpability. She didn't bargain on a temple marriage that would culminate in a part-member reality. But she also didn't bargain on encountering the dark side of teachings about eternal families.

 

The doctrine is beautiful, but the negative spiritual and, especially, social implications for families where one spouse falls away are stark. It's bad enough for my poor wife to know that in the eyes of the church we're no longer married eternally. What's worse (for her) is the overnight change in how she is treated by church members when my apostasy becomes general knowledge in the ward. 

 

 

Although I think I understand how the doctrine of eternal families may have made things worse, wouldn’t most of this negative treatment you described have occurred anyway, even had that particular doctrine never existed?

 

 Lost your testimony and left the LDS church?  “Obviously”  you “must” have committed some great sin,  so lets speculate what it was.  (After all, those who love vicious gossip can always find a rationale.)  Wouldn’t those who treated your wife with unwanted pity or exhibited awkwardness, discomfort, or otherwise behaved differently  toward her have still done so done so  -- even had that doctrine never existed --  simply because you left the “one true church,?” Ditto, the ward making your part member family a “project “ (and that might occur in any church with a close knit sense of community -- regardless of doctrine).  And even if the concept of eternal families did not exist, wouldn’t the “three degrees of glory” doctrine suggest that you and your wife would not live in the same kingdom, let alone live together?  

 

For that matter, unless your own church has some sort of doctrine of eternal marriage, wouldn’t it be fair to say that it [and you] also believe that at death… [your] marriage will be sundered …“.and moreover, your wife will not even have the choice whether or not to be  “exalted,”  because there is no such thing?    

 

None of this, of course, excuses the insensitive (and in some instances, despicable) way you and your wife have been treated.  And even I realize that nothing I have said will help assuage the deep hurts inflicted on your wife by well meaning ward members.    

[The Nehor]

Best suggestion yet.    Would you please call Pres. Monson and have that done?  I'd really appreciate it!

 

He stopped taking my calls after my two-hour presentation on my proposal of "Sinning Saturday" was rejected on the grounds that it would damn all of humanity.

[Buzzard]

Thanks, I too believe in a God who is unconditional Love and filled with mercy.  That means I don't believe God will split up families just because one of the spouses doesn't believe in certain unprovable propositions. 

Please don't take this in the wrong spirit, because I am not trying to be mean. But two points:

If you are a member of any other Christian faith other than ours, you no longer believe that there will be an eternal family to split up. In fact, most Protestant churches specifically repudiate formal family relationships in heaven. (Feel free to correct me if I am misinformed).But here is what a Christian apologetic site has to say about it: http://christiananswers.net/q-cc/cc-eternal-marriage.html

 Second point: If the LDS church is what it says it is, it won't be God breaking up your family, it will have been you. You made the covenant with God and your wife, and then walked away from it. If those covenants had any meaning, did you expect there to be no consequences?

I am sorry that people find it awkward to deal with you and your wife. It's an awkward situation, and some people, being imperfect, don't react in the best way. Perhaps you should try reaching out to them, going to ward social functions where you can just visit without the overtly religious overtones.

[strappinglad]

I am sure you have done this, but just in case you haven't, your wife could, during one of the Relief Society testimony meetings, stand and relay her concerns and desires to all the sisters. At least that would clear the air right at the start and perhaps avoid the awkward dance around the issue.

[Garden Girl]

  I've suggested that she'll have a better result with the older boy if she smiles, invites him, announces she's going to church even if by herself, and actually leave home for church smiling, but she refuses to attend church by herself ever, for the reasons I've described.  Too many comments have been made, too much gossip.  Some might call it pride, but I don't care.  She's hurting and I won't hurt her further by judging her. 

 

Hello Spammer...

 

I'm sorry you've lost your faith... even during all of my inactive years (30+). I kept my testimony, at least deep down... so while I can't truly understand how you feel yourself... I can say that I'm thankful for the love and respect you have for your dear wife, and how you're seeking ways to help her and bring her comfort.  To the point of attending with her.  You're a good man and she is fortunate.

My non-LDS husband supported me when I reactivated almost 18 years ago (3 years before he passed away)..  He would never attend Church with me, but did stand beside me in what I wanted to do... So I chose to go ahead and attend Church alone, and though it sorrowed me to always be by myself at church, in the temple, and at social activities... I went, and phooey on those who might gossip about me or pity me, etc etc.  I gathered my faith and went forward because I, like your wife, loved the gospel.  My attitude of facing forward and gathering my faith even at times when I felt very alone helped me immensely... and that attitude must have shone through because I became very accepted and served many callings, including in a RS pres and as a RS teacher... a stake missionary... and a temple ordinance worker...  Please let me encourage your wife to try very hard to ignore those who have been or are so insensitive and uncharitable...  Someone else mentioned that her attitude and behavior could help turn things around, and I agree and encourage her because I was alone.  I did not let that or anyone stop me, and I've been greatly blessed and found peace of heart and mind.  This is my prayer for her... please tell your wife that this sister is praying for her and sending her all good thoughts and wishes...

 

GG

[Spammer]

Please don't take this in the wrong spirit, because I am not trying to be mean. But two points:

If you are a member of any other Christian faith other than ours, you no longer believe that there will be an eternal family to split up. In fact, most Protestant churches specifically repudiate formal family relationships in heaven. (Feel free to correct me if I am misinformed).But here is what a Christian apologetic site has to say about it: http://christiananswers.net/q-cc/cc-eternal-marriage.html

 Second point: If the LDS church is what it says it is, it won't be God breaking up your family, it will have been you. You made the covenant with God and your wife, and then walked away from it. If those covenants had any meaning, did you expect there to be no consequences?

I am sorry that people find it awkward to deal with you and your wife. It's an awkward situation, and some people, being imperfect, don't react in the best way. Perhaps you should try reaching out to them, going to ward social functions where you can just visit without the overtly religious overtones.

 

Hi Buzzard.  

 

1. "If you are a member of any other Christian faith other than ours, you no longer believe that there will be an eternal family to split up. In fact, most Protestant churches specifically repudiate formal family relationships in heaven. (Feel free to correct me if I am misinformed).But here is what a Christian apologetic site has to say about it: http://christiananswers.net/q-cc/cc-eternal-marriage.html"

 

I'm an Orthodox Christian and we believe in eternal marriage.  There is no 'til death do us part' in our tradition.  The Eastern Tradition is nearly 2000 years old and it's always been this way.  Marriage is not a requirement for salvation and theosis in our belief; those who are married are still married.  All who never married or whose spouses didn't 'make it' will not need to be married.  Married or not, all who inherit the Kingdom by loving like God loves will dwell in God's presence and will be filled with his Presence, divinized beings who love exactly as God loves: infinitely, indiscriminately, and equally.  

 

2. "If the LDS church is what it says it is, it won't be God breaking up your family, it will have been you." 

 

Yes, if it is what it says it is.  Of course, I don't believe that.  That's why I left.  Seek first the Kingdom of God.  I'm still there at home, caring for my wife and children, praying daily for forgiveness, acknowledging my sinfulness, asking God for mercy.  I hope to grow and grow in love for my family and my neighbor until I attain to the kind of love the God who is Love possesses.  That's nothing I can accomplish on my own, however.  That's something only God can grant, the result of a God-caused transformation of those who seek after Him.  I have no plans to leave.  If my wife chooses to leave because she desires a faithful priesthood holder in the home who she can be exalted with, that's her choice and I'll understand.  Of course, since she'll be leaving only for that reason (no matter that I love her, she loves me, we love our children, and I'm 100% faithful to her despite the accusations of some Relief Society sisters), it will be reasonable for me to conclude, seeing as I don't believe in the unprovable proposition that the LDS church is true, that she left for a bad reason and further conclude that the LDS teaching about the requirements for exaltation are positively harmful to part-member families.

 

3. "You made the covenant with God and your wife, and then walked away from it. If those covenants had any meaning, did you expect there to be no consequences?"

 

Since I don't believe the LDS church is true, I only made a covenant with my wife.  I am faithful to her, love her, still believe in eternal marriage, and look forward to eternal life with her.  I did not violate any marriage vows nor have I betrayed her in any way.  Love trumps any particular organization's idiosyncratic, unprovable propositions.  I just ceased believing that the LDS church is true. Ten years after that, I ceased lying to other people that I was still a believer.  God is merciful and compassionate and will not forcibly separate us just because one of us believes in unprovable propositions that later might turn out to have been wrong.  

 

As for consequences, I'm not surprised there were consequences for me.  I am an apostate after all, but since I found Christ and turned to him, such social consequences that I might personally experience are of no import.  I look to the exemplars, confessors, and martyrs of my tradition who gladly went to the arena to be slaughtered by animals or gladiators, burned at the stake, or crucified; were hacked to death by Ottomans; or were shot by Soviet firing squads and buried in a common grave or sent to labor camps and starved, rather than deny their faith in Christ.  The impact on me of strained relationships with LDS church and family members due my choice is less than nothing by comparison.  What I didn't expect, and my wife definitely didn't expect, was that she would suffer any consequences at all at church, and delivered by her fellow church members no less.

 

4. "I am sorry that people find it awkward to deal with you and your wife. It's an awkward situation, and some people, being imperfect, don't react in the best way." 

 

Agreed.  I've tried to help her see this.  As I said above, I don't mind the awkwardness, but she does, and that's what's so wrong with this situation.  My choice led to her altered status at church but her status should not have been altered in any way.  She did nothing.  She should be treated exactly the same, regardless of whether her husband is faithful or an apostate.  Instead, she is treated differently based solely on unprovable LDS propositions about the afterlife.  The behavior does not arise in a vacuum but is precipitated by particular beliefs.  Without those beliefs, the behavior would not occur.  I know this isn't unique to the Church, e.g., other Christians whose family members cease to be Christians are also gossipy and exclusionary.  Knowing that doesn't help much, though, nor does it excuse anyone from bad behavior.  

 

5. "Perhaps you should try reaching out to them, going to ward social functions where you can just visit without the overtly religious overtones."

 

You're right.  I do what I can.  The discomfort I feel at church is on me.  This is something I'm working on.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Spammer

[Spammer]

 

 

Although I think I understand how the doctrine of eternal families may have made things worse, wouldn’t most of this negative treatment you described have occurred anyway, even had that particular doctrine never existed?

 

 Lost your testimony and left the LDS church?  “Obviously”  you “must” have committed some great sin,  so lets speculate what it was.  (After all, those who love vicious gossip can always find a rationale.)  Wouldn’t those who treated your wife with unwanted pity or exhibited awkwardness, discomfort, or otherwise behaved differently  toward her have still done so done so  -- even had that doctrine never existed --  simply because you left the “one true church,?” Ditto, the ward making your part member family a “project “ (and that might occur in any church with a close knit sense of community -- regardless of doctrine).  And even if the concept of eternal families did not exist, wouldn’t the “three degrees of glory” doctrine suggest that you and your wife would not live in the same kingdom, let alone live together?  

 

For that matter, unless your own church has some sort of doctrine of eternal marriage, wouldn’t it be fair to say that it [and you] also believe that at death… [your] marriage will be sundered …“.and moreover, your wife will not even have the choice whether or not to be  “exalted,”  because there is no such thing?    

 

None of this, of course, excuses the insensitive (and in some instances, despicable) way you and your wife have been treated.  And even I realize that nothing I have said will help assuage the deep hurts inflicted on your wife by well meaning ward members.    

 

 

I agree with everything you've said.  It comes down to Christians not behaving in a christian manner.  It's a common problem.  I'm not a good Christian, either.  Lord, have mercy.

[Spammer]

I am sure you have done this, but just in case you haven't, your wife could, during one of the Relief Society testimony meetings, stand and relay her concerns and desires to all the sisters. At least that would clear the air right at the start and perhaps avoid the awkward dance around the issue.

 

My wife's kind of shy and not a frequent testimony bearer.  She's more comfortable with one-on-ones.