Why Do So Many Smart And Intelligent People Not Believe In An Afterlife?

[Kenngo1969]

Now that is one of the lame stories I usually bash. I usually hate the story of some guy that had a tractor coming at him from behind and he heard the word "move" in his head and dodged out of the way. I think to myself, why doesn't God help me and tell me things like that when I am in need, and for things less life threatening?

 

I think that sometimes these mormon folklore stories do us more harm than good.

Perhaps you're right about the stories.  I'm very reluctant to conclude that there's an uncomplicated, linear, direct, cause-and-effect relationship between obedience and blessings, as though God is Santa Claus: He gives us "presents" when we're good, and He gives us "lumps of coal" when we're not.  Maybe that's one of the lessons the story of Job has to teach us: Job didn't do anything wrong.  What was his reaction when God allowed him to be afflicted anyway?  "The Lord giveth, and the Lord hath taken away.  Blessed be the name of the Lord" (Job 1:21).  The parents of the man blind from birth didn't do anything wrong: "Master, who did sin, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"  What was Jesus's answer?  None of them had sinned. It was simply an opportunity "that the works of God may be manifest in him" (see John 9:1-3).  What did Paul tell the Romans?  "All things work together for the good of them that love God" (Romans 8:28, emphasis mine)—not just the blessings, and not just the "good stuff," but all things.  I understand your question.  I've asked it myself, many times.  I wish you well.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

Right. I think the guy had a moment of fear that made him try to get out of the patrol and then he uses the "spirit" to ease his conscience later.

And that bit of psychoanalysis is worth every cent that was paid for it.

 

P.S.: See also my reply to you in #49, above.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[Anteojito]

There is a possibility the Spirit was attempting to tell the others...including a commander who could have altered things and only the one guy listened. Not saying this was the way it was, how could we know?

If that was the case why doesn't he do it everytime to everybody? What was so special about that one time.

 

The thing that bothered me most about that story is how he and his family would tell it like it was some really faith promoting story, like his life was so much more important than the other guys.

[Anteojito]

And that bit of psychoanalysis is worth every cent that was paid for it.

I was down range, were you? Maybe I did learn a thing or two...

[Kenngo1969]

If that was the case why doesn't he do it everytime to everybody? What was so special about that one time.

 

The thing that bothered me most about that story is how he and his family would tell it like it was some really faith promoting story, like his life was so much more important than the other guys.

I'm reminded of the exchange between Forrest Gump and Lieutenant Dan when they're out on the shrimpin' boat right before Hurricane Carmen hit in the movie bearing Forrest's name:

 

Lieutenant Dan: "Where the hell's this god of yours?!"

Forrest (Narrating): "It was funny Lieutenant Dan said that, because right then, God showed up!"

 

By the way, the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the words of living prophets are great, and all, but the answers to all of life's most important questions actually can be found in Forrest Gump. Forrest's philosophy actually is quite profound, when you think about it: "Lahf is lahk a box a choclits.  You never know what you're gonna get!"

Edited March 13, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

I was down range, were you? Maybe I did learn a thing or two...

I thank you for your service, and I respect the sacrifices you and others have made, but that still doesn't give you the right to attempt to psychoanalyze anyone else.  In answer to your question (not that it's any of your business, but since you asked ...) I would happily serve to protect my country and my community.  My father did both the latter and the former, and both my older brother and my grandfather did the former.  I would gladly have followed in their footsteps if I did not have a disability that has foreclosed that particular option. You can get down off of that high horse any time, now.  I wouldn't want to see you fall off and get hurt. .

 

P.S.: Still awaiting any reply you might have to my #49.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[Calm]

If that was the case why doesn't he do it everytime to everybody? What was so special about that one time.

Maybe he does. Maybe we are for the most part bad listeners.

[Anteojito]

Maybe he does. Maybe we are for the most part bad listeners.

Maybe...but I doubt it.

[Anteojito]

I can see how people might reach that conclusion, based on that evidence.  It's tempting to conclude that an awful lot of people have gotten the shaft here on Earth, not just in combat but in an endless variety of other, equally-terrible circumstances as well. That's why I'm reluctant to conclude that I have been "blessed" while anyone in different or less fortunate circumstances than I am has not.  There is so much about our circumstances here on Earth that we cannot control: the only thing we can control is our reaction to those circumstances.  If Viktor Frankl could find meaning in his life amidst the dire circumstances that provoked him to ponder that question, then perhaps I, whatever my challenges, don't have it so bad.

 

I guess the question, as Melvin Udall (a Jack Nicholson character in the film whose title comes from this question) asked, is, "What if this is as good as it gets?"  Another question I might ask is, "Is this truly the Second Act, or is our being here simply an accident of fate, after which we fade into nothingness?"  I won't even pretend that I can convince you otherwise if that's what you believe.  I choose to believe (based on what I believe to be reliable evidence) that it is not.  I think there was a "First Act," and that there will be a "Third Act."  To each, his or her own.  While, again, I can see how you would arrive at the conclusion you have based on that evidence in isolation, I disagree.  I wish you well.

I was once like you and believed the same for many years. Then I decided that I wanted to sin so I left the church. This was after someone offended me, but before I got too lazy to live the gospel standards. (isn't that what 80-90% of TBMs think are the only reasons to leave? 

 

Anyway, what I believe now is that when we die, that is it, the final act. My brain will shut off and I will cease to exist. 

[Kenngo1969]

I was once like you and believed the same for many years. Then I decided that I wanted to sin so I left the church. This was after someone offended me, but before I got too lazy to live the gospel standards. (isn't that what 80-90% of TBMs think are the only reasons to leave? 

If that's what 80-90 percent of so-called TBMs believe, President Uchtdorf disagrees with them, as he made clear in his address from October 2013 General Conference.  I tried to make clear in my previous post to you that while I disagree with your worldview, if I saw life from your perspective, I might well feel the same way.  I'm sorry you refuse to give me whatever minimal credit I may be due for attempting to find at least a small spot of common ground between us.  I think that's unfortunate, but if snark is your best pitch, that's what you'll have to go with, I guess. (Seems like a waste of time to me for an atheist to hang out with believers in Cyberspace and toss snark bombs, but maybe it has an allure I cannot understand).  

 

Anyway, what I believe now is that when we die, that is it, the final act. My brain will shut off and I will cease to exist. 

 

Attributing that belief to you wasn't necessarily my intent if you don't believe that, but there isn't much point in an afterlife if there is no God.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[teddyaware]

I was once like you and believed the same for many years. Then I decided that I wanted to sin so I left the church. This was after someone offended me, but before I got too lazy to live the gospel standards. (isn't that what 80-90% of TBMs think are the only reasons to leave? 

 

Anyway, what I believe now is that when we die, that is it, the final act. My brain will shut off and I will cease to exist.

Whenever atheists want to dialogue on this board, I am reminded of the famous Book of Mormon atheist Korihor.

52 And Korihor put forth his hand and wrote, saying: I know that I am dumb, for I cannot speak; and I know that nothing save it were the power of God could bring this upon me; yea, and I always knew that there was a God.

[Tacenda]

Now that is one of the lame stories I usually bash. I usually hate the story of some guy that had a tractor coming at him from behind and he heard the word "move" in his head and dodged out of the way. I think to myself, why doesn't God help me and tell me things like that when I am in need, and for things less life threatening?

I think that sometimes these mormon folklore stories do us more harm than good.

And why does He help find our missing keys but won't find food for the starving child. I hate it too! And yet I've prayed to find things too, but it doesn't sit well when prayers are answered for such minor things, yet not for more significant things.

[thatjimguy]

I was once like you and believed the same for many years. Then I decided that I wanted to sin so I left the church. This was after someone offended me, but before I got too lazy to live the gospel standards. (isn't that what 80-90% of TBMs think are the only reasons to leave? 

 

 

I am so glad for the internet because I'd bet this would still be said (and other folklore hoopla) today if not for it.

[thatjimguy]

And why does He help find our missing keys but won't find food for the starving child. I hate it too! And yet I've prayed to find things too, but it doesn't sit well when prayers are answered for such minor things, yet not for more significant things.

 

I think if, in respectfullness, during times when we hear these things, we call it out and put those questions to the people who say them so often. I think that the reason they got popular is because no one wanted to be "rude" enough to call someone out for it, or seem that they "lacked faith" because they questioned it.

[Tacenda]

I'm reminded of the exchange between Forrest Gump and Lieutenant Dan when they're out on the shrimpin' boat right before Hurricane Carmen hit in the movie bearing Forrest's name:

Lieutenant Dan: "Where the hell's this god of yours?!"

Forrest (Narrating): "It was funny Lieutenant Dan said that, because right then, God showed up!"

By the way, the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the words of living prophets are great, and all, but the answers to all of life's most important questions actually can be found in Forrest Gump. Forrest's philosophy actually is quite profound, when you think about it: "Lahf is lahk a box a choclits. You never know what you're gonna get!"

I wish I could give rep points. I love this post. And the church of Forrest Gump!

[Kenngo1969]

I wish I could give rep points. I love this post. And the church of Forrest Gump!

Blow me a kiss and we'll call it even!

[mfbukowski]

Very simple....no evidence for an afterlife. Intelligent people who realize this are not bound by the superstition.

Oh gosh.

 

Not another logical positivist.  That is SO 1920.

 

We're all closet postmoderns on this bus.

[Calm]

And why does He help find our missing keys but won't find food for the starving child. I hate it too! And yet I've prayed to find things too, but it doesn't sit well when prayers are answered for such minor things, yet not for more significant things.

Why do you hate it? Perhaps you feel guilty because you haven't done as much as you could have for the starving child so that you wouldn't see God as wasting his time with you?

[Kenngo1969]

Blow me a kiss and we'll call it even!

Tacenda,

 

No kisses?

 

Edited March 13, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[Stone holm]

Belief in the afterlife is a decision based on faith. Faith being a belief in things which are true the evidences of which are not seen. Those intelligent people who demand evidence of things tend not to believe. Those who believe in and afterlife based on misrepresented evidence may encounter difficulties later on. To my mind it is better to discount the evidence, but retain the belief.

[Kenngo1969]

Belief in the afterlife is a decision based on faith. Faith being a belief in things which are true the evidences of which are not seen. Those intelligent people who demand evidence of things tend not to believe. Those who believe in and afterlife based on misrepresented evidence may encounter difficulties later on. To my mind it is better to discount the evidence, but retain the belief.

Are you referring to a specific instance of allegedly misrepresented evidence?

[Ahab]

I'm not sure that's helpful, any more than denying there are true Mormons or true Scotsmen.

It's helpful to be able to put yourself in someone else's place, so you can comprehend at least why they might think the way they do. Otherwise you get theists who think that atheists are secret believers and atheists who think that theists are secret doubters (I've seen both). Neither position shows much charity or empathy.

This is another case of when you are wrong, and when I put myself in someone else's place and I am wrong then I correct myself when I find out I am wrong instead of going on with the wrong idea.

[ksfisher]

And why does He help find our missing keys but won't find food for the starving child. I hate it too! And yet I've prayed to find things too, but it doesn't sit well when prayers are answered for such minor things, yet not for more significant things.

God has provided food for starving children. There is more than enough food produced on this planet to feed everyone. We need to do our part and share.

And the Lord called his people Zion, because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them. (Moses 7:18)

For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance.

But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin. (D&C 49:19-20)

Edited March 13, 2014 by ksfisher

[SeekerB]

Some people are so smart they can even outsmart themselves.

[Tacenda]

Tacenda,

 

No kisses?

 

    

 

One for you and one for Forrest!