VideoGameJunkie Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 It seems to me that the geniuses of the world don't believe in heaven or that life goes on after death, and I'm wondering what's with intellectuals denying the afterlife and a God?
iriemon Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Very simple....no evidence for an afterlife. Intelligent people who realize this are not bound by the superstition. 1
teddyaware Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) It seems to me that the geniuses of the world don't believe in heaven or that life goes on after death, and I'm wondering what's with intellectuals denying the afterlife and a God?Because the things of God are foolishness to the fallen, pride-filled natural man. Many of these "smart people" are too proud of their intelligence and worldly education to humble themselves in the depths of humility in order to receive the sacred knowledge of God that can only be spiritually discerned.14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Cor 2) Edited March 12, 2014 by teddyaware 1
Sanpitch Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Because the things of God are foolishness to the fallen, pride-filled natural man. Many of these "smart people" are too proud of their intelligence and worldly education to humble themselves in the depths of humility in order to receive the sacred knowledge of God that can only be spiritually discerned. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Cor 2) I often wonder about this question. If the humble are lead by the Spirit of God then why the thousands of different directions in religion. Are the LDS the only ones being lead into the correct path? Are all the others lead by Satan because they are too proud?
thesometimesaint Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 It seems to me that the geniuses of the world don't believe in heaven or that life goes on after death, and I'm wondering what's with intellectuals denying the afterlife and a God? Lots depends on what you mean by belief. Some 40% of all US scientists are believers. Sir Isaac Newton invented differential calculus in a few months on a dare. He was a Theist. What I would contend is that there is no scientific validation for any God or Godlike force. Maybe one day there will be, but that day probably isn't going to be today.
thesometimesaint Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Very simple....no evidence for an afterlife. Intelligent people who realize this are not bound by the superstition. Not entirely true. 3
Senator Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) I'm proof that you don't know what you're talking about. Edited March 12, 2014 by Senator
thesometimesaint Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I'm proof that you don't know what you're talking about. All I've ever claimed is to be smarter than the average bear, but then bears aren't very smart.
Kenngo1969 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Very simple....no evidence which they are willing to accept for an afterlife. Intelligent people who realize this are not bound by the superstition. [italicized phrase added by Kenngo1969]. There! All fixed! 3
Kenngo1969 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I often wonder about this question. If the humble are lead by the Spirit of God then why the thousands of different directions in religion. Are the LDS the only ones being lead into the correct path? Are all the others lead by Satan because they are too proud?There's a difference between led (past tense of lead), and lead, which is a present-tense verb. (You're welcome! I'm glad I could clear that up for you! ) Now, about your question: God doesn't give me/Mormons bread when I ask for it, while giving the devout of other faith stones; He doesn't give me fish when I ask for it, while giving them serpents; He doesn't give me grapes and figs while giving them thorns and thistles. He gives His children bread, fish, and fruit when they ask for it ... period. So ... what you're saying, then, Ken, is that it doesn't make any difference whether you're Mormon or not? Well, not exactly. Even though good fruit is good fruit, every seed doesn't bear the same amount. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ because I believe it is the best way to get the most good fruit possible (an hundredfold). But rather than looking down my nose at someone who's devout but who follows a different faith tradition and saying, "Dad loves me best! Neener, neener!" , I think the best approach is to congratulate a person for the good fruit his devotion bears in his life (even if it is, from my perspective, sixtyfold or thirtyfold, in comparison to my hundredfold). If he, despite the good fruit his current faith tradition has borne in his life, is looking for something more, perhaps I can tell him, "Bring your sixtyfold or thirtyfold with you, and let me tell you about how you might garner an hundredfold." 1
Kevin Christensen Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 It seems to me that any person who declares that there is no evidence for the afterlife has also demonstrated that they lack the omniscience required to authoritatively support such a declaration. Because if you really stop to think about it, omniscience is required. Hugh Nibley reported that as a teenager that he went through a period thinking that there is no evidence of an afterlife. Then he learned better. http://publications.maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/video/faith-of-an-observer/ I've looked at a great deal of evidence. Interviews, and reading: http://publications.maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/fullscreen/?pub=1382&index=2 It's not just a Mormon thing: http://www.lifeafterlife.com/ One of the most interesting accounts in the Life after Life DVD from 1992 is by a Russian who described himself as a dialectical materialist. He learned better by experience. While I was attending the IANDS conference in Salt Lake City in 1999, I heard several NDE accounts, including one by a Jewish girl who talked about how she had been taught that there was no after life, that her faith was to be an ethical person in the here and now. When she found herself, dead and looking down at her body, her first thought was "I HATE being wrong!" It is possible, of course, to dismiss all of this kind of evidence, but one should not confuse interpretation with the evidence being so interpreted. If you pay close attention to LDS scripture and prophetic teaching, it becomes very clear that God far wider concerns than just the Mormons. As Joseph Smith says, "the Great Parent of the universe looks upon the whole of the human family with a fatherly care and paternal regard; He views them as His offspring, and without any of those contracted feelings that influence the children of man, causes “His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.” He holds the reins of judgment in His hands; He is a wise Lawgiver, and will judge all men, not according to the narrow, contracted notions of men, but, “according to the deeds done in the body whether they be good or evil,” or whether these deeds were done in England, America, Spain, Turkey, or India. He will judge them, “not according to what they have not, but according to what they have,” History of the Church 4:595. FWIW Kevin Christensen Pittsburgh, PA 4
Gray Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) I don't think that intelligence has anything to do with it. There are plenty of intelligent people with beliefs all over the map on the afterlife. I myself am agnostic about whether or not there is an afterlife. I simply don't know. I hope there is. But my relationship with God is really experiential and present, not focused on future rewards or future states. Edited March 12, 2014 by Gray
The Nehor Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 It seems to me that the geniuses of the world don't believe in heaven or that life goes on after death, and I'm wondering what's with intellectuals denying the afterlife and a God?This life is not an intelligence test. This is a good thing because none of us are very smart.
Kenngo1969 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) ... I myself am agnostic about whether or not there is an afterlife. I simply don't know. I hope there is. But my relationship with God is really experiential and present, not focused on future rewards or future states.A lot of us, irrespective of our attitudes about the existence of God and of an afterlife, are more focused on the goings-on in the here-and-now than we are on any speculation regarding "future rewards or future states." I also think that positing a linear, cause-and-effect relationship between obedience and blessings ("God-as-Santa-Claus": He gives us "presents" when we're good, but withholds them when we're "bad") is problematic. But that doesn't mean that none of us have ever pondered whether God or an afterlife exist, or that we have never received assurances that they do, indeed, exist. I've never had any personal experiences with the afterlife, but I have heard accounts from people with whom I have more than an arm's-length acquaintance that I accept as credible. To each, his or her own. I wish you well. Edited March 12, 2014 by Kenngo1969 1
JLHPROF Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 "....no evidence which they are willing to accept"There! All fixed! I think this applies to most of our beliefs. We are stubborn by nature and will dismiss any evidence that goes against our established notions. This is not just atheists vs believers. It applies to most doctrinal discussions on this board too.
Gray Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 A lot of us, irrespective of our attitudes about the existence of God and of an afterlife, are more focused on the goings-on in the here-and-now than we are on any speculation regarding "future rewards or future states." I also think that positing a linear, cause-and-effect relationship between obedience and blessings ("God-as-Santa-Claus": He gives us "presents" when we're good, but withholds them when we're "bad") is problematic. But that doesn't mean that none of us have ever pondered whether God or an afterlife exist, or that we have never received assurances that they do, indeed, exist. I've never had any personal experiences with the afterlife, but I have heard accounts from people with whom I have more than an arm's-length acquaintance that I accept as credible. To each, his or her own. I wish you well. Great points Kenngo. I can't speak to any personal experiences (near death experiences, visitations, etc), but I think that sort of evidence is quite subjective in nature and I think we'd get that sort of evidence showing up with or without the existence of the soul or an afterlife. In other words there is no way to distinguish true from false experiences of this type. I say true and false as short hand for an experience that truly indicates the existence of an afterlife vs an experience that has more to do with brain states. In any case, yes, to each his own, and I wish you well too.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Very simple....no evidence for an afterlife. Intelligent people who realize this are not bound by the superstition.But there is plenty of evidence. They just choose to ignore it.
VideoGameJunkie Posted March 12, 2014 Author Posted March 12, 2014 I would think everyone would hope there's an afterlife.
thatjimguy Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 It seems to me that the geniuses of the world don't believe in heaven or that life goes on after death, and I'm wondering what's with intellectuals denying the afterlife and a God? 1) Good marketting for geniuses that have books to sell2) The same authors are very good at arguing their points, while thier opponents use "tried and true" lame answers that get the whole religious movement to look like idiots.3) Peer pressure. Sometimes I laugh because I think they are the ones in a cult. Take all the "cult" warning signs and apply it to them and I think a lot fo them stick. 1
thatjimguy Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I would think everyone would hope there's an afterlife. Even atheist superstar Christopher Hitchens did at the end. He said he would never have a death bed confession, and I do not beleive he did. However, in an interview with, CBS I think, when asked what he thought now of an afterlife, he said the he still did not think there was one, but he liked surprises. There are no athesits in foxholes.
jaxenro Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I think it is all over the map regarding intelligence and afterlife. You could as easily ask on a different board why do so many intelligent people believe in an afterlife.I myself have had personal observations that convince me there is one and had these prior to joining any church. So that's my reason like in many things, experience and observation 1
Gray Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Even atheist superstar Christopher Hitchens did at the end. He said he would never have a death bed confession, and I do not beleive he did. However, in an interview with, CBS I think, when asked what he thought now of an afterlife, he said the he still did not think there was one, but he liked surprises. There are no athesits in foxholes. Unless Hitchens proclaimed a belief in God at some point there, I'd say he was an atheist in a foxhole. Actually you don't have to be a theist to believe in an afterlife. Buddhists believe in life after this one and are nontheistic 1
The Nehor Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I would think everyone would hope there's an afterlife.This is only true if said afterlife is better than this. If Sheol or the pagan afterlife was real I would desperately try not to die. I would be okay with the Norse afterlife though. Fight all day, resurrect in the evening, and party all night. I could live with that.
The Nehor Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Actually you don't have to be a theist to believe in an afterlife. Buddhists believe in life after this one and are nontheisticI wouldn't call the Buddhist afterlife living. More like an afterexistence at best.
MiserereNobis Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I have a great book to recommend. It is a collection of writings from the greatest physicists involved in the creation of relativity and quantum physics, including 6 Nobel Prize winners. While they do not talk about the afterlife, all of them, ALL of them discuss the necessity of mysticism and their own mystical experiences. It is fascinating that they are scientific geniuses AND mystics. Ken Wilber is the editor of the book and has a fantastic introduction. Quantum Questions: Mystical Writings of the World's Great Physicists Here is a snippet of a review on amazon.com: American philosopher Ken Wilber has done a great service by bringing together in a single volume excerpts from the mystical writings of the world's greatest physicists. Six of the eight men included were Nobel laureates including Einstein, Heisenberg, Schroedinger, Plank, de Broglie, and Pauli.These are the intellectual giants who gave us the twin pillars of modern physics, relativity theory and quantum mechanics, upon which all of contemporary science rests. Given the popular view that they must have been atheists it is astonishing to learn that all of them were quite explicit in expressing the need for a mystical outlook extending beyond the physical world.Let's be clear. Wilber as editor has not pulled a few paragraphs out of context. Erwin Schroedinger for example writes of "the mystic vision", De Broglie writes that "the mechanism demands a mysticism", and Wolfgang Pauli speaks of "embracing the rational and the mystical." 1
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