Palerider Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Very little people. Well, you know what they say...."By small things the Lord accomplishes His works".....
David T Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) How is this anything more than simply "Tom Phillips filed a lawsuit."? Because, as I understand it from what I've been reading, the order itself is being presented by the authority of the judge, not from Tom. Some judge has already determined this might have merit, and has presented the summons to Court. It's weird, and incredibly stupid, but also sickly fascinating. Edited February 4, 2014 by David T 1
teddyaware Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Teddy those prophecies could have described Joseph's day as well as some future series of events. I think we go through cycles where our own pride or the jealousy of others creates opposition. However the lesson in all of this is to stand in holy places, hold to the iron rod (the word of God) so that we don't find ourselves on the opposite side of what we once believed was our source of strength and blessings. In know it's most unpleasant to contemplate, but those prophecies are most definitely speaking of our day. Read Nephi's vision and prophecy from the beginning (start in 1 Nephi 11) and you'll know for yourself. 2
The Nehor Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 In know it's most unpleasant to contemplate, but those prophecies are most definitely speaking of our day. Read Nephi's vision and prophecy from the beginning (start in 1 Nephi 11) and you'll know for yourself.Have not heard Crowther's prophetic chronology for a while. A blast from the past.
Kenngo1969 Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) ... I hope there can be compassion for Tom, Steve and Chris in all this and that the reaction to them is christlike. They are very little people going against a very large and well funded corporation. I am concerned for them and their families.Oh, I know! I hear the Strengthening Church Members Committee, especially its paramilitary strike element, which is composed of jack-booted thugs who are clad in black from head to toe and carry military assault weapons, can be ruthless! Hope "Tom, Steve and Chris" all have good bodyguards! Edited February 4, 2014 by Kenngo1969
The Nehor Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Oh, I know! I hear the Strengthening Church Members Committee, especially its paramilitary strike element, which is composed of jack-booted thugs who are clad in black from head to toe, can be ruthless! Hope "Tom, Steve and Chris" all have good bodyguards! Danite Team B reporting in. Target acquired. 1
KevinG Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 In know it's most unpleasant to contemplate, but those prophecies are most definitely speaking of our day. Read Nephi's vision and prophecy from the beginning (start in 1 Nephi 11) and you'll know for yourself. I'm not arguing that. I'm saying "all of the above". We repeat history all too well and I suspect some visions and prophecies refer to multiple rounds of human events.
mercyngrace Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Because, as I understand it from what I've been reading, the order itself is being presented by the authority of the judge, not from Tom. Some judge has already determined this might have merit, and has presented the summons to Court. It's weird, and incredibly stupid, but also sickly fascinating. If this fascination is sick - it's certainly widely shared on the various LDS message boards. This story is on most of the boards I've scanned today (while I should have been working...) 1
KevinG Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Oh, I know! I hear the Strengthening Church Members Committee, especially its paramilitary strike element, which is composed of jack-booted thugs who are clad in black from head to toe, can be ruthless! Hope "Tom, Steve and Chris" all have good bodyguards! Shhhhhhh. Have you gone completely mad and forgotten your Danite vows of secrecy?
teddyaware Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Have not heard Crowther's prophetic chronology for a while. A blast from the past.I'm very surprised with your flippant comment. Here's the chapter heading to 1 Nephi 14:"Chapter 14An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The Saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The Apostle John will write concerning the end of the world. About 600–592 B.C."The Gentiles referred to are us. This fact is universally accepted by virtually all LDS authorities. I'm astonished. 1
Abulafia Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Oh, I know! I hear the Strengthening Church Members Committee, especially its paramilitary strike element, which is composed of jack-booted thugs who are clad in black from head to toe, can be ruthless! Hope "Tom, Steve and Chris" all have good bodyguards! Actually, these men are being ridiculed by both the mormon and ex mormon community. They are getting it from all sides.
Calm Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 What I would like to see come of this is the FP vault being opened and all historical artifacts, documents and general authorities meeting minutes.Why?
The Nehor Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 I'm very surprised with your flippant comment. Here's the chapter heading to 1 Nephi 14:"Chapter 14An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The Saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The Apostle John will write concerning the end of the world. About 600–592 B.C."The Gentiles referred to are us. This fact is universally accepted by virtually all LDS authorities. I'm astonished.I am surprised that you are surprised that I would make a flippant comment.I know the prophecies in question. The way you presented it sounded like Crowther's stuff. I have no idea if he was right. 1
Okrahomer Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Well, you know what they say...."By small things the Lord accomplishes His works"..... Not quite: "but behold I say unto you, that by small and simple things are great things brought to pass; and small means in many instances doth confound the wise." While this group may indeed qualify as "small"; the jury is still out on whether they are "simple" too. 1
teddyaware Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 I am surprised that you are surprised that I would make a flippant comment. I know the prophecies in question. The way you presented it sounded like Crowther's stuff. I have no idea if he was right. LOL!!! I Forgot. I'll be sure to remember next time. All the best...
Bob Crockett Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) The opposition knows that this is a frivolous lawsuit and that nothing of legal consequence will come of it. What they want to happen is to have LDS doctrine, or what they want people to think is LDS doctrine, publicly dragged through the mud. They believe this will shed negative light on the Church; and it will certainly. However, this is also a great opportunity as always to find out what the doctrine really is and to talk to people about the Church. It isn't a frivolous lawsuit. It is not a lawsuit, frivolous or otherwise. The complainants, it appears, simply went to a magistrate in charge of criminal affairs. Somewhat akin to going down the police station and filing a police report. The magistrate is investigating the criminal complaint. It is likely in the UK the magistrate is required to pursue all criminal complaints, good or bad. The UK criminal court has no jurisdiction over Pres. Monson. It is merely asking questions. The magistrate is probably doing this to get the complainants off his back. At some time the UK criminal court may exercise its prosecutorial discretion to kick it up to a higher criminal authority which could, possibly, request extradition. This is so very unlikely to ever occur. It is likely the Church will respond with a letter back along the lines of (1) citing UK law which says that contributions to a church or charity cannot be refunded and (2) the questions pertain solely to a matter of faith, not fact, citing authority. Whereupon the magistrate will give up. Edited February 4, 2014 by Bob Crockett
KevinG Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 ...So they're not even going to send a slightly perturbed Bobby to Salt Lake to teach the Prophet what a proper Anglican should believe? Where's the excitement in that? 1
halconero Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 What I would like to see come of this is the FP vault being opened and all historical artifacts, documents and general authorities meeting minutes. This would also be the only way for the prosecution to come close to their goal. But I doubt they'd get a warrant and the LDS church probably doesn't have anything of value. It would definitely be interesting, but....like you said, it's highly unlikely. Especially considering that the records are in the US, and this charge originated in the US.
Duncan Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 I wonder if these two fellas want the victims of the crusades to be recompensed, with their lives
omni Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 This could have far-reaching legal ramifications if TP gets what he wants. I just can't imagine some "higher ups" in the UK parliamentary or legal system not putting a stop to this knowing it could set a dangerous precedent where in which any religion could (and eventually would) be sued for fraud. You would have a LOT of angry, rioting people not just in the UK, but throughout the world. 1
halconero Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 How is this anything more than simply "Tom Phillips filed a lawsuit."? It isn't a law suit, it's a court summons about criminal fraud.
Kenngo1969 Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Danite Team B reporting in. Target acquired.Roger that! You're cleared to begin your assault, Team B. Please report back with an After Action Report once the operation has been carried out.
Kenngo1969 Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 It isn't a law suit, it's a court summons about criminal fraud.Thanks for the clarification.
savedbygrace Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 This is the "surprise" that Tom Phillips had planned. He just said it today. Here's a copy of the summons for those interested. I think he's pulled the wool over his own eyes if he thinks this is going to be the straw that breaks the Church's back: I am British, I am ex mormon, this seems utterly ridiculous
thatjimguy Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Failure to attend [appear in London before a Magistrate’s Court] may result in a warrant being issued for your arrest. Among other problems, it might be a tad difficult to serve such a warrant in Utah. On the other hand, the Tower of London is far more classy than Liberty Jail. Perhaps they would allow an appearence over the internet. "October Surprise"? More like a "February Fizzle"!Obviously President Monson will never take the stand, but I guess this could keep him from ever visiting England again (if that were ever even a possibility in his condition).Ultimately, the only "value" anti-mormons would get from this is the accusation itself, so we'll hear endlessly of how the Church was "taken to court for fraud", and apologists will have to endlessly explain the details. It's been a Mormon tradition since 1826. Why wouldn't he take the stand? He's done nothing wrong and it is a lawful summons. Granted, it is not from our land, so perhaps he doesn't not have to follow that law as we would our own. I think that trying not to take it would be just as harmful.
Recommended Posts