Mls -- Tithing Records

[rpn]

Does anyone know where to go in MLS or how to account for tithing for two spouses together, as opposed to crediting one with all of it, or splitting it between two, when the slip reports the donation on behalf of two people?   I would like to know the exact procedure so I can get my ward to start using it.  (And maybe some others who do not like their own tithing record to be inaccurate would also benefit.)

[Calm]

There is a tech message board for answering such questions somewhere on lds.org.

See tech.lds.org

[Duncan]

According to my Super Duper Stake Clerk bro, you would have to go into every single tithing batch for the year and split it and figure out who made the donation and put them down as the donor and credit them with the donation. So, for example if the Higgledee Piggledee Family donated a $100 then you would have to figure out who in that family made the donation and credit them with doing it, in essence cutting out the other spouse-only if every time the one person made the donation but if it was shared filling it out you would have to figure out who made it and credit them. If it was a shared donation as in sometimes the wife made it out and then another time the husband you would have to figure that out and credit whoever. Massive pain in the oonka toonka depending on how often they paid their tithing, to go into afterwards and figuring all this flub dubbery.

 

Granted if someone requested that their spouse not be credited with donating and they didn't know you had asked the clerk to do this, sparks could fly in that home

[Robert F. Smith]

There is a tech message board for answering such questions somewhere on lds.org.

See tech.lds.org

No.  A financial clerk will have access to the complete rules and can logon to lds.org to read them under MLS Finance, etc.  Members without that calling or supervisory responsibility do not have access.

 

A husband & wife can be listed on the same account, and the financial clerk will normally put donations under the husband's name if it is listed first on the donation slip.  At tithing settlement they go in together and have one document for all donations.   However, the husband & wife can have separate accounts and file separate donation slips.  Just let the financial clerk know what you prefer.

[Calm]

Good to know, Robert, thank you.

[ERayR]

Does anyone know where to go in MLS or how to account for tithing for two spouses together, as opposed to crediting one with all of it, or splitting it between two, when the slip reports the donation on behalf of two people?   I would like to know the exact procedure so I can get my ward to start using it.  (And maybe some others who do not like their own tithing record to be inaccurate would also benefit.)

 

I don't quite understand what you are asking but if you are asking to have the separate donations reported together there is a check box that reports both spouses contributions as a single unit using both names on the report.

[mfbukowski]

No.  A financial clerk will have access to the complete rules and can logon to lds.org to read them under MLS Finance, etc.  Members without that calling or supervisory responsibility do not have access.

 

A husband & wife can be listed on the same account, and the financial clerk will normally put donations under the husband's name if it is listed first on the donation slip.  At tithing settlement they go in together and have one document for all donations.   However, the husband & wife can have separate accounts and file separate donation slips.  Just let the financial clerk know what you prefer.

Agreed.

I think one would have to create accounts in whatever name(s) the people wanted to contribute, so you could have an account for a couple, a separate account for the wife, a separate one for the husband, and one for each child if that was desired.

 

I have known of large families who have done that with each child so that at tithing settlement, we know that Sally contributed her $7.30 and Jimmy contributed $16.07.

 

But splitting the accounts after a year of contributions would be a nightmare, I think.  You would have to re-do everything.

 

I would say set it up right for next year and go on from there.

 

Edit:  And to get to the training you have to sign into lds.org and then the system knows who you are and what your calling is, and if you are a clerk you will have access to the training.

Edited December 12, 2013 by mfbukowski

[Kenngo1969]

 ...If it was a shared donation as in sometimes the wife made it out and then another time the husband you would have to figure that out and credit whoever. Massive pain in the oonka toonka depending on how often they paid their tithing, to go into afterwards and figuring all this flub dubbery. ...

 

Wow.  That thar Canadian is a straaaaaange language!

Edited December 12, 2013 by Kenngo1969

[BCSpace]

Many clerks just put it all under the husband.  At the beginning of the year, one could establish that the record of donation goes under the name which is on the slip and the say, to the husband when both names are on it.

[slamarwi]

At the end of 2011 significant changes were made in MLS and spouses were no longer listed together on top line of the tithing donation report (even if they want it that way).

 

However, you can go into the tithing settlement section, choose the "add/update donor" field. Choose the spouse you wish to add to the tithing donor report. Check the box in the upper left hand side that reads "show spouse on donor report." The spouse will now be listed on the report, it just shows up a little differently that it did prior to 2012.  

 

This must to be done for each individual and takes some time. (Something to do during tithing settlement : )

 

A note of caution - It is best to ask couples that contribute if they want the donation report to list both parties, as there are couples that file their taxes separately and don't want a spouse listed on their report.

Edited December 12, 2013 by slamarwi

[rpn]

Thanks for the info.    This is a real problem that undermines equality of women (particularly since there was a time when couples did have both names at the top of the report, and now they don't).   (And how is that that male clerks decide to put it under the husband's name anyway --- what kind of arrogance is that?    It is patently insulting (and inaccurate in church records that are supposed to be completely accurate, to boot) to put all tithing donations in one person's name when they are donated by both.  It is equally inaccurate to divide them up when the parties do not divide them.  And it must play big havoc when tithepayers get divorced mid tax year.

 

Anyway, I'll go to the lds tech board to fight the fight, thank you. 

[Ahab]

Thanks for the info.    This is a real problem that undermines equality of women (particularly since there was a time when couples did have both names at the top of the report, and now they don't).   (And how is that that male clerks decide to put it under the husband's name anyway --- what kind of arrogance is that?    It is patently insulting (and inaccurate in church records that are supposed to be completely accurate, to boot) to put all tithing donations in one person's name when they are donated by both.  It is equally inaccurate to divide them up when the parties do not divide them.  And it must play big havoc when tithepayers get divorced mid tax year.

 

Anyway, I'll go to the lds tech board to fight the fight, thank you. 

Believe it or not, some husband and wife couples act as if they are one and are not upset by the things that apparently bother you.

 

But then again, there are some couples who act as if they are divided and don't want anyone lumping them together as one.

 

To each their own preference, I suppose.

[JAHS]

As a finance clerk I was told for an active couple to always put donations under one name unless at the beginning of the year they specifically ask to keep their donations separate. If so then they should put their own name on the tithing donation slip so the clerk remembers to keep it separate. 

[slamarwi]

I don't believe there is a real issue with attributing the correct donation to the party that donates. To my knowledge, there is no teaching or rule that the husband's name is supposed to be listed first. If two people are listed on the donation slip, I simply input the name that appears first. Therefore the responsibility lies with the donors. (This has been explained to our ward members)

 

Having been a stake auditor and knowing many finance clerks I have yet to meet one that simply defaults to the man. As an auditor we review donation slips to validate that donations are exactly as listed. If there is a question as to how donations are entered please make a note on your slip, or mention your concern to your finance clerk. We finance clerks do our best to ensure the records are correct and reflect the intentions of the donors.

 

: )

[Widow's Son]

I'm not sitting in front of it, but under finance, there is a option to "edit donor information" or something to that effect.  It will pull up a list of all the donors in the ward.  When you click on a name there is a box that you can check that says "add spouse's name to reports".  Viola.

[slamarwi]

I tried to explain the process a few posts back, thank you for reiterating : ) 

[ERayR]

Thanks for the info.    This is a real problem that undermines equality of women (particularly since there was a time when couples did have both names at the top of the report, and now they don't).   (And how is that that male clerks decide to put it under the husband's name anyway --- what kind of arrogance is that?    It is patently insulting (and inaccurate in church records that are supposed to be completely accurate, to boot) to put all tithing donations in one person's name when they are donated by both.  It is equally inaccurate to divide them up when the parties do not divide them.  And it must play big havoc when tithepayers get divorced mid tax year.

 

Anyway, I'll go to the lds tech board to fight the fight, thank you. 

 

I don't see how it undermines the equality of women.  It works the same either way.  In my ward we have some women who pay the donations for the family and in order to get the husband on the donor report.  There is nothing inherently sexist in the program.  It all hinges on how the family chooses to make their donations.  Why do you insist on looking for problems where none exist.

 

Why would you suppose it would be any great problem for divorced couples?

Edited December 13, 2013 by ERayR

[ERayR]

Thanks for the info.    This is a real problem that undermines equality of women (particularly since there was a time when couples did have both names at the top of the report, and now they don't).   (And how is that that male clerks decide to put it under the husband's name anyway --- what kind of arrogance is that?    It is patently insulting (and inaccurate in church records that are supposed to be completely accurate, to boot) to put all tithing donations in one person's name when they are donated by both.  It is equally inaccurate to divide them up when the parties do not divide them.  And it must play big havoc when tithepayers get divorced mid tax year.

 

Anyway, I'll go to the lds tech board to fight the fight, thank you. 

 

The clerk doesn't decide which name to put the donations under.  The doners decide that when they fill out the donation slip.  It is not the clerks nor the bishop's prerogative to decide the donation is recorded under the name on the donation slip.. 

[garza4411]

The clerk doesn't decide which name to put the donations under.  The doners decide that when they fill out the donation slip.  It is not the clerks nor the bishop's prerogative to decide the donation is recorded under the name on the donation slip.. 

 

Well....sometimes it happens. When I've been working with the clerk, he types in the first few letters of the name and whatever pops up first--if it matches the household--is usually selected. For instance, if Sis. Mary Smith submits tithing and he types in "Smith" it might bring up "Bob and Mary Smith" and he goes with it (because that's how it's been submitted before on the slip.) If the couple want it entered differently, IMO they should tell the clerk and any others that are entering the info; or add a note to the slip saying how it should be entered.

 

I have no idea how it will come out during tithing settlement or if there are any other rules that might negate that request. Only what I've seen looking over the shoulder of the clerk when we did tithing together.

[rpn]

Couples do tithing and their finances together in many ways.   The way they pay their tithing should be respected by the organization to which they donate.  It was my own clerk who said he always filed it under the man's name, or the name of the first person listed, though mostly the man.

 

The reason this undermines the equality of women is the reality that fathers are the typical breadwinner in the church and frequently the only breadwinner.   For the couples who believe that the family money belongs to them jointly and pay their tithing that way, it says something when their contribution is entirely discounted in the records of the church, as though they didn't even exist.     For couples in which the woman is a breadwinner, attributing the donations that are paid in both names to their spouse discounts their contribution and is inaccurate.   When both are breadwinners and pay together and the clerk decides to put it under one or the other's name, it arbitrarily discounts one or both's contribution.   Because men are counseled to be the providers, and some clerks default to the man, women are the most affected by the process.  In secular terms it is called disparate impact discrimination.   Hence unequal to women.

 

And this is not doctrine, it is simply computer code.   Doesn't have to be this way, really.   Just need to find the right office to determine to fix the code to allow joint donations to be credited jointly if that is the way the couple manages their donations.

 

(And when a couple gets divorced midyear and one party's tithing has been credited to another, then their receipt is not going to show what each has contributed for tax deduction.  When a party takes the standard deduction it won't matter, but it might matter.  (Of course this argues for each member of the couple o pay their tithing separately, which may not be what the couple chose to do with his money jointly before the divorce.)

Edited December 13, 2013 by rpn

[mfbukowski]

I don't believe there is a real issue with attributing the correct donation to the party that donates.

The problem arises when the clerks, wanting to get home and eat lunch, (justifiably, after possibly 5 early morning meetings) type in the first few letters of the last name and "Jones" pops up, do not scroll down to match the name on the slip with the Jones name in the computer.  The first name listed for the family often gets the donation regardless of who's name is on the slip.

 

But isn't it nice that we can discuss this stuff on line?  Can you imagine what happens in other churches without a centralized system like ours??

[mfbukowski]

The clerk doesn't decide which name to put the donations under.  The doners decide that when they fill out the donation slip.  It is not the clerks nor the bishop's prerogative to decide the donation is recorded under the name on the donation slip.. 

Most of the time....  

[mfbukowski]

Well....sometimes it happens. When I've been working with the clerk, he types in the first few letters of the name and whatever pops up first--if it matches the household--is usually selected. For instance, if Sis. Mary Smith submits tithing and he types in "Smith" it might bring up "Bob and Mary Smith" and he goes with it (because that's how it's been submitted before on the slip.) If the couple want it entered differently, IMO they should tell the clerk and any others that are entering the info; or add a note to the slip saying how it should be entered.

 

I have no idea how it will come out during tithing settlement or if there are any other rules that might negate that request. Only what I've seen looking over the shoulder of the clerk when we did tithing together.

AUGH!  You beat me to it!! 

 

It's a real kick during tithing settlement when a child has contributed thousands of dollars for tithing!

Edited December 14, 2013 by mfbukowski

[ERayR]

AUGH!  You beat me to it!! 

 

It's a real kick during tithing settlement when a child has contributed thousands of dollars for tithing!

 

Its too bad we all can't be perfect in every way.

[mfbukowski]

Its too bad we all can't be perfect in every way.

Speak for yourself!