Our Own Planets?

[Tacenda]

You're talking apples and oranges here - you made the claim that many people joined for this very reason(getting their own planet), than you say many on this board like the idea of progression....which is it?

This is nothing but coyness to me. What is progression? That's what people like about the church. CFR where I said people join to get their own planet, in those words. BTW, my last post till this evening. In order to respond I'll have to edit this post.

 

Pull back on the attacks or this will be your last post for the month.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

KFS heresy. It's about as relevant and credible as the midnight infomercials.

The KFD was an sermon run amuck. All I want in the CK is my family, whet ever blessing come, then the come. Ig greater blessings and promises are a side effect from righteous come....that they come. I believe in D&C 132 when we will becomes gods, it out it in the context, "that we will have no en...i.e, Immortal. Edited August 18, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[mfbukowski]

Deleted.  It should not have been said.

Edited August 17, 2013 by mfbukowski

[ZelphtheGreat]

This is something from the King Follet Discourse, it is not canon and never will be...I would not want my own planet; EVER!

 

So you are starting that Joseph Smith was wrong, or he was 'speaking as a man'? Was he wrong about everything in the talk or do you pick and choose here? "Pick and choose" to suit yourself or to reinforce your own prejudices and/or the way you think things should be?

 

Why would a "Prophet of God" teach false doctrine at the funeral? Does not make sense.

[Calm]

The term "planet" is not used in the KFD, "world" is used 50 times but a quick search through it doesn't yield to me anywhere that it says we create our own worlds....now I went through really, really fast so I may have missed it.

 

Perhaps tomorrow or you can place it in your last post, Tacenda, you can quote where Joseph makes it clear we will be getting our own planets as part of becoming gods with our Father.

 

Zelph, if you want to find the quote for her, feel free.

Edited August 17, 2013 by calmoriah

[Calm]

This is nothing but coyness to me. What is progression? 

 

What is coyness to you is precision to others.  I have no intent on hiding the fact that other LDS believe that this means 'getting your own planet' and will mention it as appropriate.  That doesn't mean in a discussion where this is already known that I must agree that this is doctrine and not speculation or that is part of what eternal progression means or I am being coy.  Simply because you believe this doesn't mean all LDS believe this way.

 

Giving people the benefit of the doubt in a discussion and not assuming they are trying to be deceptive or 'coy' is rather necessary in a good faith discussion.  It makes it much more difficult when people start pushing the 'that's not what you really believe' line (which is the essence of saying someone is being coy about their beliefs).

Edited August 17, 2013 by calmoriah

[Calm]

Deleted.  It should not have been said.

It was funny and fun though, I didn't find it offensive.  

[Calm]

Tacenda, I don't get what you are protesting when you say 'I didn't say people join to get their own planet'.  I agree that is not what you said, but getting your own planet seems to be the major focus of your comments.

 

If you are saying you just meant eternal progression and this didn't mean you meant people get their own planet, then why can't we feel comfortable saying in general that eternal progression doesn't automatically include getting your own planet, that this is speculation that some have had, but is not doctrinal.

 

Isn't your whole issue here that certain LDS are reluctant now to state that getting their own planet is part of progression? 

[JDave]

I have heard the idea of "our own planet" in church, but the same person that mentions it almost always qualifies that it is speculation.  I am sure there are a few who view it as being squarely in "pure doctrine", but I haven't met many.

[mnn727]

That we become Gods and probably get a planet. If we believe God is an exalted man, then why wouldn't we become like Him and have a planet. 

 You asked for proof you said it, there you are.

[Calm]

God has worlds without end, if we are using the idea that we become like him to justify the speculation we will get a planet of our own, then we are either not as like him as we thought or we will be getting worlds without end as well.

 

Personally I think everyone who cares about humanity (meaning God and all those who are one with him either from this earth and any other that contains humanity) will be all working together, thus all have or will have worlds without end in the sense of sharing with one another, though perhaps there will be delegation as Yahweh was given Israel in the scriptures among the sons of God.  

 

I don't see a planet being all my own (or mine and my husband's) any more than I think of my children as belonging only to me and not having a relationship with anyone else.

Edited August 17, 2013 by calmoriah

[EllenMaksoud]

Golly gee. I just started this thread this morning, and I go out for a little drive and come back to this ! It is like the time my son put dish soap in the dish washer. !  Wow

[Samlam]

The KFD was an sermon run amuck. All I want in the CK is my family, whet ever blessing come, then the come. Ig greater blessings and promises are a side effect from righteous come....that they come. I believe in D&C 132 when we will becomes gods, it out it in the context, "that we will have no end""""I,e, Immortal.

I am sorry to hear such comments.  Sometimes things can be said that exceed our capacity to understand them but simply that I do not understand something does not make it wrong.  For the thread I will post what I consider one of the most definitive resources that describes certain conditions of how the Kingdom of God is organized.  I have studied this diagram and the commentary many many times and it provides insight to this question.  Especially when coupled with D & C 132.

 

and portions of 88.

 

The diagram referenced is an attachment at the bottom of this post.

 

The above diagram shows the order and unity of the kingdom of God. The eternal Father sits at the head, crowned King of kings and Lord of lords. Wherever the other lines meet, there sits a king and a priest unto God, bearing rule, authority, and dominion under the Father. He is one with the Father, because his kingdom is joined to his Father's and becomes part of it.

 

The most eminent and distinguished prophets who have laid down their lives for their testimony (Jesus among the rest), will be crowned at the head of the largest kingdoms under the Father, and will be one with Christ as Christ is one with his Father; for their kingdoms are all joined together, and such as do the will of the Father, the same are his mothers, sisters, and brothers. He that has been faithful over a few things, will be made ruler over many things; he that has been faithful over ten talents, shall have dominion over ten cities, and he that has been faithful over five talents, shall have dominion over five cities, and to every man will be given a kingdom and a dominion, according to his merit, powers, and abilities to govern and control. It will be seen by the above diagram that there are kingdoms of all sizes, an infinite variety to suit all grades of merit and ability. The chosen vessels unto God are the kings and priests that are placed at the head of these kingdoms. These have received their washings and anointings in the temple of God on this earth; they have been chosen, ordained, and anointed kings and priests, to reign as such in the resurrection of the just. Such as have not received the fulness of the priesthood, (for the fulness of the priesthood includes the authority of both king and priest) and have not been anointed and ordained in the temple of the Most High, may obtain salvation in the celestial kingdom, but not a celestial crown. Many are called to enjoy a celestial glory, yet few are chosen to wear a celestial crown, or rather, to be rulers in the celestial kingdom.

 

While this portion of eternity that we now live in, called time, continues, and while the other portions of eternity that we may hereafter dwell in, continue, those lines in the foregoing diagram, representing kingdoms, will continue to extend and be lengthened out; and thus, the increase of our kingdoms will increase the kingdom of our God, even as Daniel hath said: "of the increase of his kingdom and government there shall be no end." All these kingdoms are one kingdom, and there is a King over kings, and a Lord over lords. There are Lords many, and Gods many, for they are called Gods to whom the word of God comes, and the word of God comes to all these kings and priests. But to our branch of the kingdom there is but one God, to whom we all owe the most perfect submission and loyalty; yet our God is just as subject to still higher intelligences, as we should be to him.

 

…These kingdoms, which are one kingdom, are designed to extend till they not only embrace this world, but every other planet that rolls in the blue vault of heaven. Thus will all things be gathered in one during the dispensation of the fulness of times, and the Saints will not only possess the earth, but all things else, for, says Paul, "All things are yours, whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come: all are yours, and ye are Christ's, and Christ is God's" (Orson Hyde, "A Diagram of the Kingdom of God," Millennial Star 9 [15 January 1847]:23-24).(Joseph Smith, The Words of Joseph Smith: Ehat, Cook, 299.)

 

The second diagram is a full size image of the one that is overlaid into the 3rd image and is one representation of Adam Kadmon and the 10 sephirot. For myself I have likened the 10 Sephirot to the process and acquisition of traits and capacities of Godliness until one attains a status of wholeness that makes them complete in oneness and a celestial entity of Godliness. 

 

The third diagram is simply an overlay of how I have envisioned in my wanderings an association between the Kabbalistic 10 Sephirot and how it might integrate with Joseph Smith's statements concerning the Kingdom of God. 

 

The Third diagram simply shows that as Joseph Smith indicated, "Wherever the other lines meet, there sits a king and a priest unto God, bearing rule, authority, and dominion under the Father."  The analogy for me is that once one attains to the completeness of a status of oneness as defined in the traits of the Sephirot one then is able to occupy the place where the lines meet as a king and priest bearing rule and authority.

Edited August 18, 2013 by Samlam

[Damien the Leper]

My planet is going to be made out of chocolate.  And then I'm going to eat it.

Chocolate!...yugh! That's just nasty business...

[halconero]

How about a planet of self-replicating bubble wrap?

Safe and fun!

Edit: Fun fact. I first came up with the idea of a bubble wrap planet 8 years ago while on the road to a young men's campout. I've held this idea within until today. Thank you, everyone for allowing me a place to express this deeply held desire.

Edited August 18, 2013 by halconero

[strappinglad]

The vast majority of us should just focus on ruling over ourselves and leave the unspecified future to the future. I personally have no desire to rule over anyone else. ( unless of course they get in my way )

[Tacenda]

I apologize to all if I've offended anyone. It has been my understanding that a God is in charge of His own world or planet. And the reason we have zillions of stars is so the billions on earth can inhabit some of them. If it is indeed true the things you've said, that we will stay with the Father on one planet it does my heart good. No wonder I've struggled with the distorted concept. I will try harder not to offend. I've only even thought of these things since reading prophet and apostles discuss certain concepts or speculations which of these things. If you need references I can supply them.

[Calm]

I apologize to all if I've offended anyone. It has been my understanding that a God is in charge of His own world or planet. And the reason we have zillions of stars is so the billions on earth can inhabit some of them. If it is indeed true the things you've said, that we will stay with the Father on one planet it does my heart good. No wonder I've struggled with the distorted concept. I will try harder not to offend. I've only even thought of these things since reading prophet and apostles discuss certain concepts or speculations which of these things. If you need references I can supply them.

While the idea is that God the Father may 'live' in a central location, I never heard of anyone who speculates that there is only one world or planet he is in charge of.  The idea that the entire universe is God's is referenced in discussions on how Christ's atonement might be applied to other worlds, whether or not this world was the only one wicked enough to kill their own God, other planets being 'dissembled' and 'reassembled' for our own (and others).

 

"Worlds without end" doesn't just refer to time passing, it seems to me.

 

Perhaps I have misunderstood you though and you are not referring to the Father when you say "a God", but if so then you also acknowledge that your POV is that there are somethings we do not share with others in our oneness.  And I would disagree with that due to our scriptures.

 

I think we tend to be overly individualistic in much of our speculations due to the American culture we have been brought up in.  The focus on possessions demonstrating power and control and level of abilities goes way back (money, toys, possessions being said to be useful in keeping score in the game of competition between individuals).  I don't see competition as part of the eternal family myself, it will be much more focused on cooperation but will still allow the maximization of the individual...but that will never need to be at the cost of another's lack of development as happens at times in mortality.

Edited August 18, 2013 by calmoriah

[Anijen]

The Pattern of our Parentage. One of my favorite General Conference talks.

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/1984/10/the-pattern-of-our-parentage?lang=eng

 

On becoming like God; "I humbly but resolutely affirm that we will not, we cannot, stray from this doctrine. On this fundamental truth we will never yield! "

[Stone holm]

It may not be canonized but it is certainly part of the teachings of the Church.

[Calm]

essential truths are repeated over and over again....

there are complementary and tempering teachings in the scriptures which bring a balanced knowledge of truth....

there is a consistency in what the Lord says and what He does...

Other scriptures...have equal validity, and they sustain one another

much must be taken on faith alone...

there is individual revelation through which we may know the truth

 

Amen

Edited August 18, 2013 by calmoriah

[daz2]

Mormons do not believe we will get our own planet.  That is the official position of the Church as communicated to the world.

Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will “get their own planet”?

No. This idea is not taught in Latter-day Saint scripture, nor is it a doctrine of the Church. This misunderstanding stems from speculative comments unreflective of scriptural doctrine. Mormons believe that we are all sons and daughters of God and that all of us have the potential to grow during and after this life to become like our Heavenly Father (see Romans 8:16-17). The Church does not and has never purported to fully understand the specifics of Christ’s statement that “in my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2).

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-101#C14

[EllenMaksoud]

I apologize to all if I've offended anyone. It has been my understanding that a God is in charge of His own world or planet. And the reason we have zillions of stars is so the billions on earth can inhabit some of them. If it is indeed true the things you've said, that we will stay with the Father on one planet it does my heart good. No wonder I've struggled with the distorted concept. I will try harder not to offend. I've only even thought of these things since reading prophet and apostles discuss certain concepts or speculations which of these things. If you need references I can supply them.

What sticks in my mind, pre-Mormon that is, is Heavenly Father, God, G_d, Allah SWT created all things, the dark, the light, the heavenly bodies, all of it. There seems to be some disagreement as to if Jesus Christ is God, or just in agreement with him, and my mind can't resolve that one. So, if Jesus Christ is just Jesus Christ and we are co-inheritors with him and he has a planet, then perhaps we'll get one? I mean there are several vacant ones perhaps? I'd like one like in "Avatar", oh um "Pandora", yes, that's it!

 

Seriously, I just want to do and be what Heavenly Father wants me to be even if that is just to sweep the porch!

 

So, I was thinking about things, and if our Solar system is representative, then about 10% plus of the planets in the 'verse can be expected to carry life. So the link I put in this thread posits 100 million galaxies, but I don't know how many planets are in each galaxy, and at around 200 light years across, our galaxy is one of the small ones,  National Geographic suggests that tens of billions of earth like planets are in our own galaxy., so with so many different places in the 'verse, someone else is going to have to do the math, but I am sure that it just lots.

 

I don't know, maybe girls don't get planets, maybe just guys do? So, assuming that I get to share one with him, who ever, "Him" is?  Um well, my old "Him" proved to be somewhat of a plunker (UK Slang), so I do not know how Heavenly Father will work that out? Well, to be fair, perhaps I was somewhat of an um "plonker" also.

 

So, I wonder how Heavenly Father will work all our imperfections out?

[JDave]

Mormons do not believe we will get our own planet.  That is the official position of the Church as communicated to the world.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-101#C14

Good find!

Edited August 18, 2013 by JDave

[Calm]

 There seems to be some disagreement as to if Jesus Christ is God, or just in agreement with him, and my mind can't resolve that one.

The talk linked to above discusses this to some extent and may be helpful:

 

 

 

There is one God, the Father of all. This we accept as fundamental doctrine.

There is only one Redeemer, Mediator, Savior. This we know.

There is one Holy Ghost, a personage of spirit, who completes the Godhead.

I have emphasized the word one, in each sentence, but I have used it three times. Three is plural.

Paul used the plural many and the singular one in the same verse:

“For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

“But to us there is but one God, the Father.” (1 Cor. 8:5–6.)

Anyone who believes and teaches of God the Father, and accepts the divinity of Christ, and of the Holy Ghost, teaches a plurality of Gods.

 

 

The Father is the one true God. This thing is certain: no one will ever ascend above Him; no one will ever replace Him. Nor will anything ever change the relationship that we, His literal offspring, have with Him. He is Eloheim, the Father. He is God. Of Him there is only one. We revere our Father and our God; we worship Him.

There is only one Christ, one Redeemer. We accept the divinity of the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh. We accept the promise that we may become joint heirs with Him. Paul wrote to the Romans:

“The spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

“And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ” (Rom. 8:16–17.)

 

I find it easiest to simply think of them as the Godhead, all who are in it possess Godhood...thus we have God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit, God describing what they are, not who they are (God is not their name, but title and just as there can be King John, King James, and King Jacob all at the same time there are the three Gods of the Godhead).

 

Jesus Christ is not God the Father (in the sense of the individual we also call Eloheim, though Christ does fill the role of a Father when we become his adopted spiritual children), but he is God the Son.

 

There may be other gods over which this Godhead presides, in time we may be part of that group, but we are taught that God the Father and God the Son will always be our God(s).  (when "God" is used for more than one being, simply replace it with "Godhead" if it makes it easier to understand, in LDS thought I believe they are pretty much completely interchangeable when talking of the three)

 

Whether or not God the Spirit remains as part of the Godhead eternally I don't remember seeing any doctrine on, but I would not be the least surprised (if God the Spirit is one individual and not as is sometimes speculated many filling the same role, I think doctrine is pretty clear it is one individual myself, but that may be assumption based).

 

Reading the scriptures and the talks in this link may help fill out the gaps for you:

 

http://www.lds.org/topics/godhead?lang=eng

Edited August 18, 2013 by calmoriah