Our Own Planets?

EllenMaksoud · August 18, 2013

The talk linked to above discusses this to some extent and may be helpful:

I find it easiest to simply think of them as the Godhead, all who are in it possess Godhood...thus we have God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit, God describing what they are, not who they are (God is not their name, but title and just as there can be King John, King James, and King Jacob all at the same time there are the three Gods of the Godhead).

Jesus Christ is not God the Father (in the sense of the individual we also call Eloheim, though Christ does fill the role of a Father when we become his adopted spiritual children), but he is God the Son.

There may be other gods over which this Godhead presides, in time we may be part of that group, but we are taught that God the Father and God the Son will always be our God(s). (when "God" is used for more than one being, simply replace it with "Godhead" if it makes it easier to understand, in LDS thought I believe they are pretty much completely interchangeable when talking of the three)

Whether or not God the Spirit remains as part of the Godhead eternally I don't remember seeing any doctrine on, but I would not be the least surprised (if God the Spirit is one individual and not as is sometimes speculated many filling the same role, I think doctrine is pretty clear it is one individual myself, but that may be assumption based).

One of the things I had to resolve when I was "Investigating", was Isaiah 14:14, the "I will be like the most high" one. I was finally able to be at peace with the idea that no matter how much we become like God, he will still be the Creator, and The Most High. I have talked to people that believe otherwise. I do not know what will happen to them, but I do not intend to share it.

Your reference is greatly comforting to me.

Edited August 18, 2013 by EllenMaksoud

omni · August 18, 2013

Mormons do not believe we will get our own planet. That is the official position of the Church as communicated to the world.
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-101#C14

The church might want to work on putting this out somewhere where most church members are actually going to see it, like in the Ensign, general conference, or in a gospel doctrine lesson. It always made me a little uncomfortable, but I can't tell you how many times I've heard members discuss what it would be like when they have their own planet.

Calm · August 18, 2013

I can't tell you how many times I've heard members discuss what it would be like when they have their own planet.

I can see it if they are approaching it as lording over others...but I have never heard it discussed that way. Instead it is about the act of creating something different from this world such as dragons and unicorns or other fantastic beasts or as Morningstar would probably vote for trees with chocolate fruit and other candies. Basically what so many of the fantasy and sci fic authors and movie directors do.

Is there something wrong with that kind of fun?

Edited August 18, 2013 by calmoriah

Storm Rider · August 18, 2013

This is one idea where the anti-Mormons have won; in fact they have been so successful that we have LDS that believe it. No where is the Celestial kingdom described so completely that we know what we will be doing for eternity. For me this teaching has never rung true and is incomplete. We don't know what everyone will be doing. What we do know is that we will dwell in his presence. Is there any need to say more?

Tacenda · August 18, 2013

This is one idea where the anti-Mormons have won; in fact they have been so successful that we have LDS that believe it. No where is the Celestial kingdom described so completely that we know what we will be doing for eternity. For me this teaching has never rung true and is incomplete. We don't know what everyone will be doing. What we do know is that we will dwell in his presence. Is there any need to say more?

Guilty as charged, I believed the anti rhetoric, that included quotes from church leaders. It bothered me so much, for instance how would a family be together if they were on different planets? And the church is using this (families are forever, not get your own planet! ) as a great incentive to go to the temple. But if they do go to the temple, they'll progress enough to get their own worlds, so what the heck is that? So if this really isn't what is going to happen, I might be able to hold onto belief in the church alot easier. Edited August 18, 2013 by Tacenda

mfbukowski · August 18, 2013

This really isn't what is going to happen.

Linguistic ambiguity again.

"World" can refer to a planet, like a "world globe" is a map of this planet, but it can also mean an area of influence, or power or concern, or even an institution like "Welcome to the World of Honda" or my favorite TV show as a kid, the "Wonderful World of Disney"

In this sense "our world" consists of everything mankind knows- about the stars and universe as well as things about this planet. The sentence "She lives in her own little world" does not mean she has her own small planet.

So when it says "worlds without number have I created" it does not mean ONLY planets without number- it might mean universes without number, and indeed now some scientists have evidence that there could be multiple universes.

In my opinion there is nothing we humans can know about which is NOT part of Heavenly Father's realm- he is most certainly not restricted to a single planet or probably not even a single universe.

So never let the words trip you up.

Calm · August 18, 2013

Guilty as charged, I believed the anti rhetoric, that included quotes from church leaders. It bothered me so much, for instance how would a family be together if they were on different planets? And the church is using this (families are forever, not get your own planet! ) as a great incentive to go to the temple. But if they do go to the temple, they'll progress enough to get their own worlds, so what the heck is that? So if this really isn't what is going to happen, I might be able to hold onto belief in the church alot easier.

How do you think Heavenly Father has managed to appear here on earth when it is said his throne is night unto Kolob? (I don't think that is necessarily literal, but let's assume that it is for the argument's sake). If Heavenly Father is God of the entire universe and his influence and hand is felt everywhere (I cannot imagine him being a neglectful God of his creations), then he must have some way of traveling around that surpasses man's current ability to do so or even to theorize on. Why wouldn't exalted men and women therefore have the same ability? Why couldn't we reside with God while still supervising a particular planet if God asks us to do so for him?

Even with your assumptions about having a planet, etc. it can still be managed that we can all be one family together. It never occurred to me, in fact, that we would be any different due to how interaction is described between God and his Son and the Spirit as well as a few hints that may be literal or figurative about what the earth will be like in the future.

Edited August 18, 2013 by calmoriah

Storm Rider · August 18, 2013

_{The logic does not hold water the further it is extended. The Celestial Kingdom is to dwell in his presence and to be united as a family. This family is eternal being sealed….even here we need to understand that it is the human race that is sealed together and not simply a single family unit of mother, father and children.}

_{What will be doing for eternity? Whatever our Father asks of us is what we will do. This world was created as a joint effort; I suspect that all creation happens in the same way. What was the sin of the evil one? His desire to take God’s glory for himself was the ultimate sin. It makes no sense to me that we will do anything that will aggrandize ourselves, but all our actions will be to glorify the Father.}

_{Speculation is okay and I can understand how some LDS buy into this construct, but it remains an incomplete teaching. It is just easier to understand that God will share his glory with those in the Celestial Kingdom. What that means is only speculation. Maybe one day a prophet will define this completely, but until that time I shy away from anyone and anything that tries to define it.}

Bill “Papa” Lee · August 18, 2013

So you are starting that Joseph Smith was wrong, or he was 'speaking as a man'? Was he wrong about everything in the talk or do you pick and choose here? "Pick and choose" to suit yourself or to reinforce your own prejudices and/or the way you think things should be?
Why would a "Prophet of God" teach false doctrine at the funeral? Does not make sense.

Not everything a Prophet says is Prophecy. I am noting the KFD has never become canon which is where doctrine comes from. In my mortal state I cannot imagine such a thing. If it is a bi-product of living the comments, this I guess with make me fit for the project and the planet(s). Sorry it come out this way, you needed up the quote function, I was unable to repair. Edited August 18, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee

volgadon · August 18, 2013

The doctrine is that we can become like Heavenly Father.

This whole "your own planet" stuff cheapens that in my estimation. We ARE our own universes already and can become more, infinitely.

I don't know, when the implications are understood the concept is not cheapened, but vastly deepened and enhanced.

Maidservant · August 18, 2013

Uuuummmm . . . . (stating the obvious) . . .

. . . we already have our own planet . . . .?

How we doin', folks? Ha ha.

For me, saying 'our own world' and 'our own planet' are two VERY different things.

Planet is real estate, a house, a building, a work of art. Certainly it is sacred as well, our homes, our temples are sacred, land is sacred. But it's just not that big of a deal and I don't even think it takes being a God, per se, to 'own' a planet--just knowledge and/or money.

As far as a world--

We already inherited our own world the moment we were born. There is no future about it; it is now! What surrounds you and what you provide for your loved ones IS your world and you are already the God (agent) of it. Incredibly sacred.

Again--how are we doing with our worlds?

thesometimesaint · August 18, 2013

It's the end all be all in this church, if we're being honest. And many join because of this doctrine. It's in our temple, our scripture, conference talks, sacrament meetings, everywhere. It took me several years in the church to even understand this doctrine. It is the underlining of the gospel. It is the gospel just as much as the Saviour and the atonement is. Remember the ladder sermon Joseph gave? IMO, he derives it from Freemasonry. They also go up the ladder to become Godlike.

We get that idea from the Scriptures.

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_theosis.shtml#think

I think that whatever similarities exist between Freemasonry and LDS belief are fleeting at best.

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/response/qa/temple_masonry.htm

thesometimesaint · August 18, 2013

Uuuummmm . . . . (stating the obvious) . . .

. . . we already have our own planet . . . .?

How we doin', folks? Ha ha.

For me, saying 'our own world' and 'our own planet' are two VERY different things.

Planet is real estate, a house, a building, a work of art. Certainly it is sacred as well, our homes, our temples are sacred, land is sacred. But it's just not that big of a deal and I don't even think it takes being a God, per se, to 'own' a planet--just knowledge and/or money.

As far as a world--

We already inherited our own world the moment we were born. There is no future about it; it is now! What surrounds you and what you provide for your loved ones IS your world and you are already the God (agent) of it. Incredibly sacred.

Again--how are we doing with our worlds?

:good:

Bill “Papa” Lee · August 18, 2013

It may not be canonized but it is certainly part of the teachings of the Church.

Can you quote a current lesson material that says we will have our own planets?

iamse7en · August 18, 2013

The Father has promised us that through our faithfulness we shall be blessed with the fulness of his kingdom. In other words we will have the privilege of becoming like him. To become like him we must have all the powers of godhood...We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring. We will have an endless eternity for this." (Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.2, p.48)

Remember you are not going to leave this earth. You will never leave it until you become qualified, and capable, and capacitated to become a father of an earth yourselves. (Heber C. Kimball, JD 1:356)

We shall not be idle. We shall go on from one step to another, reaching forth into the eternities until we become like the Gods, and shall be able to frame for ourselves, by the bequest and command of the Almighty. All those who are counted worthy to be exalted and to become Gods, even the sons of God, will go forth and have earths and worlds like those who framed this and millions on millions of others. (Brigham Young, JD 17:143)

Even in 2001, Elder Eyring quoted Spencer W. Kimball when he said:

Elder Eyring told the young adults that the real life they are preparing for is eternal life. "Secular knowledge has for us eternal significance," he said. "Our conviction is that God our Heavenly Father wants us to live the life that He does. We learn both the spiritual things and the secular things so that we may one day create worlds, people and govern them." (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 386)

"Get your own" planet may not be terminology that our leaders use, but it's pretty much the same as "have jurisdiction over," "govern," or "father" an earth yourself.

Unfortunately the Correlation Committee has also decided this is no longer a doctrine of the Church:

Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will “get their own planet”?
No. This idea is not taught in Latter-day Saint scripture, nor is it a doctrine of the Church. This misunderstanding stems from speculative comments unreflective of scriptural doctrine. Mormons believe that we are all sons and daughters of God and that all of us have the potential to grow during and after this life to become like our Heavenly Father (see Romans 8:16-17). The Church does not and has never purported to fully understand the specifics of Christ’s statement that “in my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2).

I wonder if the the Church punished Elder Eyring for quoting "speculative comments unreflective of scriptural doctrine."

Edited August 18, 2013 by iamse7en

thesometimesaint · August 18, 2013

Even in 2001, Elder Eyring quoted Spencer W. Kimball when he said:

"Get your own" planet may not be terminology that our leaders use, but it's pretty much the same as "have jurisdiction over," "govern," or "father" an earth yourself.

Unfortunately the Correlation Committee has also decided this is no longer a doctrine of the Church:

I wonder if the the Church punished Elder Eyring for quoting "speculative comments unreflective of scriptural doctrine."

Neither the rumination of SWK nor those in the KFD has ever been Scripture.

Why should the Church punish anyone for talking about nondoctrinal issues?

EllenMaksoud · August 18, 2013

Uuuummmm . . . . (stating the obvious) . . .

. . . we already have our own planet . . . .?

How we doin', folks? Ha ha.

For me, saying 'our own world' and 'our own planet' are two VERY different things.

Planet is real estate, a house, a building, a work of art. Certainly it is sacred as well, our homes, our temples are sacred, land is sacred. But it's just not that big of a deal and I don't even think it takes being a God, per se, to 'own' a planet--just knowledge and/or money.

As far as a world--

We already inherited our own world the moment we were born. There is no future about it; it is now! What surrounds you and what you provide for your loved ones IS your world and you are already the God (agent) of it. Incredibly sacred.

Again--how are we doing with our worlds?

We are making quite a mess of "our" world, and I do not see it getting better; the raping of the land, the endless disputations among the nations, and random heavenly bodies getting close to wiping us out. You'd think the peril of the days would turn us toward God, but no, it does not seem like it.

omni · August 18, 2013

Neither the rumination of SWK nor those in the KFD has ever been Scripture.

Why should the Church punish anyone for talking about nondoctrinal issues?

So we have statements from five different prophets (including Joseph Smith) over several generations and we can't count that as doctrine? If we can't trust what multiple prophets are teaching over the pulpit or in official publications what can we trust?

mfbukowski · August 18, 2013

The Bukowski World is getting better every day, thanks for asking!

mnn727 · August 18, 2013

. So, if Jesus Christ is just Jesus Christ and we are co-inheritors with him and he has a planet, then perhaps we'll get one?

Who says Jesus has a planet of his own? Show me the scripture.

Edited August 19, 2013 by mnn727

EllenMaksoud · August 19, 2013

Who says Jesus has a planet of his own? Show me the scripture.

Go back and read my post. Reading comprehension is important. Then try a less aggressive attitude. You want to start over?

You are being rude. Do not question a poster's intelligence.

EllenMaksoud · August 19, 2013

Who says Jesus has a planet of his own? Show me the scripture.

If you look at Romans 8:17, And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

What is it that Jesus Christ inherited? As humans, our thinking is so "earthly" that we can not fathom other possibility. So, did he get a planet or planets or peoples or spirits or what? None of us know.

Jesus Christ said that he had other flocks, not of this fold. It is anyone's guess where his other flocks were. We know that some of them were right here in the Americas. Can others of them be on other planets?

thesometimesaint · August 19, 2013

So we have statements from five different prophets (including Joseph Smith) over several generations and we can't count that as doctrine? If we can't trust what multiple prophets are teaching over the pulpit or in official publications what can we trust?

SEE. http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine

Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted.

Anijen · August 19, 2013

Aww, I really wanted my own planet to escape and have a really cool vacation spot. Lots of trees, lakes, and mountains. A place to fish and eat a good steak nom nom nom.

Stone holm · August 19, 2013

Can you quote a current lesson material that says we will have our own planets?

You can barely tell the difference between Mormonism and the rest of Christianity if you rely on the sanitized lesson material. Correlation is trying to convince the Evangelicals that we are just like them. You willing to choose our current sanitized lesson material over the Prophet Joseph? I don't think so.

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