Unfortunate Wording In Church Reaction

[Stone holm]

Well now the news media has zeroed in on the first sentence in the Church response to SCOTUS dismissing the Prop 8 case for lack of standing, and we as Mormons have now self-branded ourselves as a bitter people doubting the efficacy of our system of government. Is anyone else appalled?

[The Nehor]

I dismiss the media's reports as lacking standing.

[Ron Beron]

The actual quote is...

Salt Lake City —

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released the following statement today regarding the decisions announced by the United States Supreme Court on cases involving marriage:

"By ruling that supporters of Proposition 8 lacked standing to bring this case to court, the Supreme Court has highlighted troubling questions about how our democratic and judicial system operates. Many Californians will wonder if there is something fundamentally wrong when their government will not defend or protect a popular vote that reflects the views of a majority of their citizens.

"In addition, the effect of the ruling is to raise further complex jurisdictional issues that will need to be resolved.

"Regardless of the court decision, the Church remains irrevocably committed to strengthening traditional marriage between a man and a woman, which for thousands of years has proven to be the best environment for nurturing children. Notably, the court decision does not change the definition of marriage in nearly three-fourths of the states."

Aside from the truth of the memo I cannot see anything that would be appaling.

The media will continue to zero in on any kind of dissent pontificating righteously on any irregularities.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Ron Beron

[Scott Lloyd]

Well now the news media has zeroed in on the first sentence in the Church response to SCOTUS dismissing the Prop 8 case for lack of standing, and we as Mormons have now self-branded ourselves as a bitter people doubting the efficacy of our system of government. Is anyone else appalled?

Not surprisingly, I disagree starkly with Stone holm on this.

I see the statement as an astute assessment of the situation and am not overly concerned about a biased and jaundiced reading of it by some in the mass media.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[The Nehor]

To be fair having standing is an important element of the legal system and allowing anyone to fight this case would set a dangerous precedent.

[Scott Lloyd]

To be fair having standing is an important element of the legal system and allowing anyone to fight this case would set a dangerous precedent.

I don't see the Church's statement as disputing that. Rather, it appears to be criticizing the government of California for backing away from defending the expressed will of the citizens of the state.

[Kenngo1969]

Well now the news media has zeroed in on the first sentence in the Church response to SCOTUS dismissing the Prop 8 case for lack of standing, and we as Mormons have now self-branded ourselves as a bitter people doubting the efficacy of our system of government. Is anyone else appalled?

Oh, I know! How dare the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints disagree with such a venerable, august body as the Nine (well, five) Wise Souls comprising the United States Supreme Court! How could the Church of Jesus Christ even think of doing such a thing?! (The answer, of course, is that the United States Supreme Court isn't last because it's right; it's right because it's last.)

P.S.: Reasonable people and bodies can and do disagree about who has (and who lacks) standing to bring any given case all the time! If it's so clear that the majority got it right, are those in the minority simply stupi-, -er, I mean, "lacking intellectual capacity," then?

Edited June 26, 2013 by Kenngo1969

[ERayR]

Not surprisingly, I disagree drastically with Stone holm on this.

I see the statement as an astute assessment of the situation and am not overly concerned about a biased and jaundiced reading of it by some in the mass media.

The critics are always complaining that the Church obfuscates about sensitive issues, are they now saying it is alright to do so on this issue?

[Scott Lloyd]

Oh, I know! How dare the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints disagree with such a venerable, august as the Nine (well, five) Wise Souls comprising the United States Supreme Court! >_> How could the Church of Jesus Christ even think of doing such a thing?! (The answer, of course, is that the United States Supreme Court isn't last because it's right; it's right because it's last.

What Stone holm appears to be most worried about is disapprobation from his kindred spirits in the liberal media. I say, Boo hoo.

[Kenngo1969]

To be fair having standing is an important element of the legal system and allowing anyone to fight this case would set a dangerous precedent.

True, but it's not always crystal clear who has, and who lacks, standing in any given case. Reasonable minds can and do disagree.

[The Nehor]

True, but it's not always crystal clear who has, and who lacks, standing in any given case. Reasonable minds can and do disagree.

Yes, but since the Referendum system has broken California I am not sure why the government would want to defend anything created by it,

[Kenngo1969]

Since Stoneholm is so concerned about "unfortunate" wording, maybe the Church could woo away a spokesperson from the Westboro Baptist Church to work in its PR department?

Edited June 26, 2013 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

Yes, but since the Referendum system has broken California I am not sure why the government would want to defend anything created by it,

With due respect, it appears you're employing some faulty logic here: all referendums aren't created equal. Some (perhaps many) referendums are bad, ergo, the government should not defend any of them?

Edited June 26, 2013 by Kenngo1969

[jim_mason]

In my opinion, the only statement the Church should given is

"We reaffirm, and are steadfast, in our belief in the Divine Institution of marriage, ordained by God, as being between a man and a woman."

The sentences about the judiciary, popular vote, the number of States left unphased by the ruling, should not have been given.

Hello, I am Jim, I have a testimony of the Gospel of Christ as presented by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I pay a full tithe (lest any one take my commentary as representing hostility towards the Church).

[Ahab]

Well now the news media has zeroed in on the first sentence in the Church response to SCOTUS dismissing the Prop 8 case for lack of standing, and we as Mormons have now self-branded ourselves as a bitter people doubting the efficacy of our system of government. Is anyone else appalled?

I'm not quite what I would call apalled, or bitter, but I'm at least a little bit disappointed with how SCOTUS handled the issue.

It would be nice if we could count on some good judgment on issues like this from somebody other than God and his prophets and apostles.

My opinion of the judgment from the judges on the SCOTUS panel is, well, not good by any stretch of your imagination.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Ahab

[Bikeemikey]

In my opinion, the only statement the Church should given is

"We reaffirm, and are steadfast, in our belief in the Divine Institution of marriage, ordained by God, as being between a man and a woman."

The sentences about the judiciary, popular vote, the number of States left unphased by the ruling, should not have been given.

Hello, I am Jim, I have a testimony of the Gospel of Christ as presented by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I pay a full tithe (lest any one take my commentary as representing hostility towards the Church).

Reposted from another thread:

Unfortunately the Church response is again written from the pejorative position that all mormons are americans. The phrase "our democratic and judicial system" is not actually "our" system for most mormons.

The ruling didn't change the definition of marriage in any State, though my math may be hazy.

[The Nehor]

With due respect, it appears you're employing some faulty logic here: all referendums aren't created equal. Some (perhaps many) referendums are bad, ergo, the government should not defend any of them?

The California referendum system is instrumental in its current financial woes. Basically the people of California have proven that direct democracy of this kind does notmworkmfor them.

[ERayR]

I'm not quite what I would call apalled, or bitter, but I'm at least a little bit disappointed with how SCOTUS handled the issue.

It would be nice if we could count on some good judgment on issues like this from somebody other than God and his prophets and apostles.

My opinion of the judgment from the judges on the SCOTUS panel is, well, not good by any stretch of your imagination.

Well what would one expect they are all people of there time and placed in that office by a political process carried on by politicians of the time.

[sethpayne]

Well now the news media has zeroed in on the first sentence in the Church response to SCOTUS dismissing the Prop 8 case for lack of standing, and we as Mormons have now self-branded ourselves as a bitter people doubting the efficacy of our system of government. Is anyone else appalled?

I wouldn't say appalled. More surprised. The bigger problem with the statement, in my view at least, is about the popular vote.

[jim_mason]

Well what would one expect they are all people of there time and placed in that office by a political process carried on by politicians of the time.

ColossiansFor by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

[ERayR]

ColossiansFor by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Read Mormon's refusal to lead the Nephites because of their collective wickedness. Perhaps.......

[Ahab]

Well what would one expect they are all people of there time and placed in that office by a political process carried on by politicians of the time.

Sheesh. That's not a valid excuse. People of the same time period have become righteous enough to make righteous judgments. They should have been more concerned with upholding what is good instead of condoning and upholding what is evil.

[jwhitlock]

Not surprisingly, I disagree starkly with Stone holm on this.

I see the statement as an astute assessment of the situation and am not overly concerned about a biased and jaundiced reading of it by some in the mass media.

Bingo.

Apparently, according to Stone holm, we as a church need to be very concerned with how the world views us and whether it approves of our principles or not. The litmus test for all that we do as a church should not be what the Lord through His prophets tells us, but rather if it agrees with the trendy, "enlightened" ways of the world, whether it's politically correct, and whether various activist groups approve of it or not.

There are good and valid reasons why SSM is a bad idea all around, and the fact that our judicial system is continuing to gut the very fabric of our society that holds things together should be troubling to anyone who thinks clearly.

[Garden Girl]

Well now the news media has zeroed in on the first sentence in the Church response to SCOTUS dismissing the Prop 8 case for lack of standing, and we as Mormons have now self-branded ourselves as a bitter people doubting the efficacy of our system of government. Is anyone else appalled?

Oh of course... why am I not surprised that Stone holm has jumped right in with criticism... I read the statement posted in Ron Beron's post... and no, Sh, I'm not appalled at all... nor do I think we sound bitter... and if Sh doesn't think there are reasons to question the actions of our government of late, then he's sadly out of touch...

GG

[Johnnie Cake]

Is the SCOTUS announcement really a surprise to anyone? Society has been trending towards acceptance of equal marriage for everyone for some time...the younger generation, even among LDS youth, has embraced equality, the question of equal marriage rights for all is a no brainer and non-issue...only among older generations is there still strong opposition to equal marriage rights.

The societal pendulum has swung...one can either hop on or stand in firm opposition and be crushed under the weight of society’s judgment as it casts those in opposition in an ever increasing role of insignificance.

For those who doubt my assertions…perhaps they might ask themselves this question… Would the LDS church knowing what it now knows…repeat their opposition of Prop 8 again if they could roll back time? For those who say yes they would…I would ask then why didn’t they jump head first into the equal marriage measures that were in play in Maryland, Maine, Washington, and Minnesota during the last election? Instead of doing so, the church sat on the sidelines and watched as these 4 states passed equal marriage laws.