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Surviving Without A Temple Recommend


EllenMaksoud

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I honestly can't imagine anything outside of the person's control, other than perhaps a completely unsupportive spouse, that would keep someone from getting a temple recommend ever.

Without more information, there's really not much that can be said in this thread.

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I don't know what will happen to her now, She seems broken hearted.

From a practical standpoint, depending on how often she was going to the Temple she may have to find something else to do for a few hours a year.

Also, she won't be working at BYU.

But on the bright side, she may have just found a 10% bump in her disposable income.

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I know someone who has been told she will not get a temple recommend. I thought it was a matter of course. I don't know what will happen to her now, She seems broken hearted.

I can't think of anything (beside a gender change operation) that would permanently keep someone from holding a temple recommend. If holding a TR is so important to her Im sure her bishop would be more than willing to help her work toward that goal.
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I know someone who has been told she will not get a temple recommend. I thought it was a matter of course. I don't know what will happen to her now, She seems broken hearted.

As a former bishop I know a little bit about how this works.

One has to qualify for a recommend and pass an interview, just as one has to for baptism. She obviously did not pass the interview.. This happens- she can be interviewed again and again until she passes or resolves the issues in her life which are preventing temple attendance.

This is most likely a resolvable issue- this can be fixed if she wants it to be

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As a former bishop I know a little bit about how this works.

One has to qualify for a recommend and pass an interview, just as one has to for baptism. She obviously did not pass the interview.. This happens- she can be interviewed again and again until she passes or resolves the issues in her life which are preventing temple attendance.

This is most likely a resolvable issue- this can be fixed if she wants it to be

I know this woman pretty well, but I do not get a voice in any of this except I will be supportive of her and pray for her. That is the best I can do.

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I know this woman pretty well, but I do not get a voice in any of this except I will be supportive of her and pray for her. That is the best I can do.

Yes, that sounds good to me!

If you have concerns, you can discuss those concerns with your bishop, and he can explain in general terms as much as he can to help you understand what the rules are for obtaining a recommend yourself. The important thing to remember is that of course he cannot discuss her situation with you, but I am sure he would be happy to discuss what you yourself need to do to get a recommend yourself.

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Yes, that sounds good to me!

If you have concerns, you can discuss those concerns with your bishop, and he can explain in general terms as much as he can to help you understand what the rules are for obtaining a recommend yourself. The important thing to remember is that of course he cannot discuss her situation with you, but I am sure he would be happy to discuss what you yourself need to do to get a recommend yourself.

It is interesting you would bring that up. Yes I am waiting for mine and have already decided that I will stay with the church, recommend or not. I have no conduct issues what so ever. Someone said that their big concern is that I was Muslim and it took me a painfully long time to work that through. When I left Islam, there was nothing to repent of, in fact one of the problems for me was getting comfortable in Western clothing and culture again. I never stopped believing in Jesus Christ when I was Muslim; a fact that got me in trouble a lot. And, Muslims believe almost the same thing about Jesus Christ as Mormons do, and I have frequently been told that Islam and Mormonisim are nearly alike in beliefs. Well, I knew that, I was Muslim for 6 years and after I started lessons with the Sister Missionaries, could see the similarities many times.

I am learning to laugh to myself when people who are university Islamic studies experts start telling me what Muslims believe. They know a little about the beliefs but not what the people practice.

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As a former bishop I know a little bit about how this works.

One has to qualify for a recommend and pass an interview, just as one has to for baptism. She obviously did not pass the interview.. This happens- she can be interviewed again and again until she passes or resolves the issues in her life which are preventing temple attendance.

This is most likely a resolvable issue- this can be fixed if she wants it to be

Some in this thread have mentioned the only situation I am aware of when a person is permanently disqualified from getting a temple recommend, and that is the matter of gender reassignment. All ordinance work in the temple is predicated upon whether one is female or male. Apart from ambiguous sexuality (hermaphroditism, for example), the gender you start out with is the gender you are. If you are a man who becomes a woman, or vice-versa, then you are unable to be either.

A member who undergoes a sex-change operation is generally excommunicated, I believe. A non-member who has undergone a sex change before investigating the church, and who wishes to join the Church, may be baptized, but will never receive the priesthood, and will never receive a temple recommend.

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From a practical standpoint, depending on how often she was going to the Temple she may have to find something else to do for a few hours a year.

Also, she won't be working at BYU.

But on the bright side, she may have just found a 10% bump in her disposable income.

Cinepro... even for you this is rather crass...

GG

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Some in this thread have mentioned the only situation I am aware of when a person is permanently disqualified from getting a temple recommend, and that is the matter of gender reassignment. All ordinance work in the temple is predicated upon whether one is female or male. Apart from ambiguous sexuality (hermaphroditism, for example), the gender you start out with is the gender you are. If you are a man who becomes a woman, or vice-versa, then you are unable to be either.

A member who undergoes a sex-change operation is generally excommunicated, I believe. A non-member who has undergone a sex change before investigating the church, and who wishes to join the Church, may be baptized, but will never receive the priesthood, and will never receive a temple recommend.

You make a mistake. What happened to me was by innocence. Some day you may realize that I do not need the Church, it needs me.

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I am still unclear what the point of this thread is. Is there a conflict to be resolved? A question of why the recommend was not given? A question about what causes a recommend to be refused?

You see, If a person sins, no matter how deep the sin, and one day the person realized what they have done, and they repent, suffer sorrow and repent what they can, then they have the benefit of the Atonement. You see, it all hinges on the Atonement. Without if religion is a very nasty and unfunny joke. If the sacrifice of Jesus Christ has value, and he said even of the murderer that he would this day be in Paradise with him, then the Atonement must reply to any who are repentant.

From my first contact with the church, they insisted that nothing anyone has done is unforgivable with repentance. I had my doubts about it and challenged them on it. So, for me if this woman can not get the full atonement, then it is all worthless. If it is worthless for her, then the same follows for me, and though you may think otherwise, the atonement has no value for you or anyone else.

I can not understand by what authority men can withhold the full benefit of the FULL Atonement from anyone. Those who do risk hell fire.

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It is interesting you would bring that up. Yes I am waiting for mine and have already decided that I will stay with the church, recommend or not. I have no conduct issues what so ever. Someone said that their big concern is that I was Muslim and it took me a painfully long time to work that through. When I left Islam, there was nothing to repent of, in fact one of the problems for me was getting comfortable in Western clothing and culture again. I never stopped believing in Jesus Christ when I was Muslim; a fact that got me in trouble a lot. And, Muslims believe almost the same thing about Jesus Christ as Mormons do, and I have frequently been told that Islam and Mormonisim are nearly alike in beliefs. Well, I knew that, I was Muslim for 6 years and after I started lessons with the Sister Missionaries, could see the similarities many times.

I am learning to laugh to myself when people who are university Islamic studies experts start telling me what Muslims believe. They know a little about the beliefs but not what the people practice.

If you are living the standards there will be no reason for you to not receive a recommend, but I would strongly suggest that you discuss this with your bishop so he can remove any concerns you may have about this. Certainly having been a member of another religion would not stand in your way regardless of your previous beliefs.

And I understand what you mean about "experts". I used to be Catholic, and I see "experts" getting it wrong all the time!

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If you are living the standards there will be no reason for you to not receive a recommend, but I would strongly suggest that you discuss this with your bishop so he can remove any concerns you may have about this. Certainly having been a member of another religion would not stand in your way regardless of your previous beliefs.

And I understand what you mean about "experts". I used to be Catholic, and I see "experts" getting it wrong all the time!

I'm getting really discouraged and feeling like loading my bike up and striking out in spite of the fact that I have not done any conditioning rides. Maybe I could put it on a bus and go to San Diego and by the time I get back up her it will be warm. I've done every single thing they have asked of me, obeyed everything I'm supposed to. I've talked to my Bishop and I just have to say I am about finished.

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I'm getting really discouraged and feeling like loading my bike up and striking out in spite of the fact that I have not done any conditioning rides. Maybe I could put it on a bus and go to San Diego and by the time I get back up her it will be warm. I've done every single thing they have asked of me, obeyed everything I'm supposed to. I've talked to my Bishop and I just have to say I am about finished.

It would be foolish to give up without even talking to him. I am not sure I understand why you are so discouraged- you don't even know what her problem really is, or why it should apply to you!

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I'm getting really discouraged and feeling like loading my bike up and striking out in spite of the fact that I have not done any conditioning rides. Maybe I could put it on a bus and go to San Diego and by the time I get back up her it will be warm. I've done every single thing they have asked of me, obeyed everything I'm supposed to. I've talked to my Bishop and I just have to say I am about finished.

Hello EllenM...

I'm sorry, but like mfbukowski I too am very confused at your post... this is a complete turn around from your other posts.

GG

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You make a mistake. What happened to me was by innocence. Some day you may realize that I do not need the Church, it needs me.

you have misunderstood. Stargazer isn't talking about you or your friend but speaking about one general reason that a person might not ever be able to receive a recommend.

Unless you've had a sex change (which would be news to me as I don't remember ever learning that about you) then there is nothing that would prevent you from ever having a temple recommend.

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You see, If a person sins, no matter how deep the sin, and one day the person realized what they have done, and they repent, suffer sorrow and repent what they can, then they have the benefit of the Atonement. You see, it all hinges on the Atonement. Without if religion is a very nasty and unfunny joke. If the sacrifice of Jesus Christ has value, and he said even of the murderer that he would this day be in Paradise with him, then the Atonement must reply to any who are repentant.

From my first contact with the church, they insisted that nothing anyone has done is unforgivable with repentance. I had my doubts about it and challenged them on it. So, for me if this woman can not get the full atonement, then it is all worthless. If it is worthless for her, then the same follows for me, and though you may think otherwise, the atonement has no value for you or anyone else.

I can not understand by what authority men can withhold the full benefit of the FULL Atonement from anyone. Those who do risk hell fire.

What everyone has been trying to explain to you is that if your friend did not receive her recommend its because there is some sin in her life that needs to be repented of before she is ready to go forward. There are very specific things that a person must be doing and not doing to receive a recommend and if the aren't they won't get one. They dont have to be perfect though.

The situation is not irreversible for your friend and is completely in her hands to fix (unless she has had a sex change).

This is not about denying anyone the atonement. It's about helping people to take full advantage of it. In the temple we make covenants which connected to the covenants we have already made. If we are struggle to keep our first covenants then Christ does not want us to make the problem worse by adding new covenants that we aren't ready to keep yet either.

For this reason a person might be denied the ability to enter the temple UNTIL they are ready and able to meet the standards that Christ has set. Once they are ready they will be allowed a recommend and welcomed into the temple with open arms.

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I'm getting really discouraged and feeling like loading my bike up and striking out in spite of the fact that I have not done any conditioning rides. Maybe I could put it on a bus and go to San Diego and by the time I get back up her it will be warm. I've done every single thing they have asked of me, obeyed everything I'm supposed to. I've talked to my Bishop and I just have to say I am about finished.

Ellen it sounds like your friend and you are in the same predicament. I hope you can hold off on running for a bit. I believe the atonement is 100% there for you. The temple is a different ballgame in that it provides a way to not only dwell with God but also become like God. So I guess the criteria is a little different. There's a way to still remain in the church and have Christ atone for your sins without a TR, many people do. It doesn't hinder your salvation one bit. Edited by Tacenda
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..., and he said even of the murderer that he would this day be in Paradise with him, then the Atonement must reply to any who are repentant.

From my first contact with the church, they insisted that nothing anyone has done is unforgivable with repentance. I had my doubts about it and challenged them on it. So, for me if this woman can not get the full atonement, then it is all worthless. If it is worthless for her, then the same follows for me, and though you may think otherwise, the atonement has no value for you or anyone else.

I can not understand by what authority men can withhold the full benefit of the FULL Atonement from anyone. Those who do risk hell fire.

Actually, it was a thief that was next to Christ on the cross. Murder can be another issue. Yes, Christ can forgive it, but it can be difficult for the Church's leadership to fully determine what Christ has forgiven,and how much he has forgiven. The Church's policy for murderers is that they will wait until the Lord determines their worthiness for things like baptism or the temple. Note: we are talking murder here, not killing in self defense or in times of war.

The Church leadership does not provide us with Christ's forgiveness. Only Jesus can do that. They do provide us with the Church's forgiveness when we sin against the covenants we've made. They are very protective of keeping the ordinances and covenants sacred, and so seek to ensure a person truly is worthy to receive such blessings.

Your friend (or is it you, as I can't quite follow your statements and concerns), will have to choose just how obedient one will be. It isn't easy to humble ourselves to other humans, but it is a necessary thing in the Lord's Church. If we cannot humble ourselves enough to follow and obey the Lord's chosen servants, how can we expect to serve and obey the Lord in all things?

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