Tacenda Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Yesterday I had dinner with my very TBM niece. The subject of our national debt came up. My brother in-law described how it would be impossible to actually ever balance the budget since it is about 16 trillion. Can't remember the exact number he stated. And we were discussing the implications of it. My niece has a 2 yr.old and is married. She stated that she really doesn't feel good about bringing another child into the world. She even feels guilty for having her 2 yr. old son. My other nephew and his wife feel the same way with their 1 yr. old. Both of these couples are stopping at one!! What is going on? Also, my sons don't have a huge desire to marry very soon both are dating someone quite seriously. And the one son feels the end is near anyway so why bother too much with the future. It's not coming from me either, not sure where he's gettng his information, I continually tell him he'll have a family, grow old etc.Is this just within my family or is it a trend that is happening? Have any of you seen this strange phenomenon amongst the young couples/singles you're around? It greatly concerns me and for the first time now I feel like the end might actually be near. Never really felt it before. I feel doom and gloom, help.Please don't make this political k? Not that you would.
rodheadlee Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 It's not "The End". It's the begining of the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ on Earth. There will no doubt be some hard times leading up to His Return.D&C 106: 4 And again, verily I say unto you, the acoming of the Lord draweth nigh, and it overtaketh the world as a bthief in the night—5 Therefore, gird up your loins, that you may be the achildren of light, and that day shall not bovertake you as a thief. 1
Duncan Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 http://speeches.byu.edu/index.php?act=viewitem&id=728Have them read this talk by Pres. Hunter given at BYU-also the talk that Cody Judy rushed the stage with his bomb or some other contraption
RobertAC Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Is this just within my family or is it a trend that is happening? Have any of you seen this strange phenomenon amongst the young couples/singles you're around? It's a trend among educated, upwardly mobile people. Children are expensive, and there is so much uncertainty in the world that responsible people are naturally second-guessing themselves. Ironically, these same people will likely make the best parents. 1
Ahab Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Yesterday I had dinner with my very TBM niece. The subject of our national debt came up. My brother in-law described how it would be impossible to actually ever balance the budget since it is about 16 trillion. Can't remember the exact number he stated. And we were discussing the implications of it. My niece has a 2 yr.old and is married. She stated that she really doesn't feel good about bringing another child into the world. She even feels guilty for having her 2 yr. old son. My other nephew and his wife feel the same way with their 1 yr. old. Both of these couples are stopping at one!! What is going on? Also, my sons don't have a huge desire to marry very soon both are dating someone quite seriously. And the one son feels the end is near anyway so why bother too much with the future. It's not coming from me either, not sure where he's gettng his information, I continually tell him he'll have a family, grow old etc.Is this just within my family or is it a trend that is happening? Have any of you seen this strange phenomenon amongst the young couples/singles you're around? It greatly concerns me and for the first time now I feel like the end might actually be near. Never really felt it before. I feel doom and gloom, help.Please don't make this political k? Not that you would. The world is getting worse and worse, based on what I know and remember from my own childhood to present.With Halloween coming up, I'm reminded of when I first heard about razor blades being found in popcorn balls, which I used to get from some of my neighbors while doing trick or treating as a small child. And then they were found in candied or caramel apples, too. Not that I got nothing but those yummy treats, because I got a lot of store bought stuff too, but it wasn't long after that that people no longer gave stuff like that away because the people who gave that stuff didn't want to freak out the parents of those children who got it.I also remember when it became more rare to see small children go out trick or treating, or at least not on their own, as they once usually did.And then more and more people started locking their doors to their homes at night, and even during the day when they wanted to go out somewhere. And then they started worrying about leaving their keys in their cars.And this stuff is just the tip of the iceberg!It's getting to where I don't like to watch or listen to news stories anymore, because there is more and more bad news.With all of this bad stuff going on more and more often, is it really any wonder to you that people aren't as excited about life in this world anymore? When people think more and more about having their own children, they think about wanting to keep them safe, and that is getting harder and harder to do.I know we could all just try to block out the bad stuff, as if it wasn't going on or wouldn't happen to US, but more and more it is happening more to us.Oh, and the lack of respect for the "marriage" thing is a direct result of people being more "free" with their bodies, as if they should be able to do whatever they want to do with it, anytime, anywhere, with whoever, whenever they feel like it, for whatever reason. 1
RobertAC Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 The world is getting worse and worse, based on what I know and remember from my own childhood to present.With Halloween coming up, I'm reminded of when I first heard about razor blades being found in popcorn balls, which I used to get from some of my neighbors while doing trick or treating as a small child. And then they were found in candied or caramel apples, too. Not that I got nothing but those yummy treats, because I got a lot of store bought stuff too, but it wasn't long after that that people no longer gave stuff like that away because the people who gave that stuff didn't want to freak out the parents of those children who got it.I also remember when it became more rare to see small children go out trick or treating, or at least not on their own, as they once usually did.And then more and more people started locking their doors to their homes at night, and even during the day when they wanted to go out somewhere. And then they started worrying about leaving their keys in their cars.And this stuff is just the tip of the iceberg!It's getting to where I don't like to watch or listen to news stories anymore, because there is more and more bad news.With all of this bad stuff going on more and more often, is it really any wonder to you that people aren't as excited about life in this world anymore? When people think more and more about having their own children, they think about wanting to keep them safe, and that is getting harder and harder to do.I know we could all just try to block out the bad stuff, as if it wasn't going on or wouldn't happen to US, but more and more it is happening more to us.Oh, and the lack of respect for the "marriage" thing is a direct result of people being more "free" with their bodies, as if they should be able to do whatever they want to do with it, anytime, anywhere, with whoever, whenever they feel like it, for whatever reason.Yes! Yes, and yes!
canard78 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Some of the 'rhetoric' around large families has certainly changed. My parent's generation felt it was their duty to have lots of kids (I'm one of eight). My peers and I don't hear/feel that same expectation. It's a subtle change of tone. I'll have a look for some examples once I'm on the laptop. As a result I know very few of my generation having more than 5 and most are at 2-3. On the other I think people are crazy to stop at one. It will be more work in the long run for the parent. They will always be the playmate/confidante. There are also multiple studies on the 'issues' caused by being an only child and the limitations it can place on them in adulthood.I'm on my phone so will add some sources for all of the above when I'm near a laptop.
canard78 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Is this just within my family or is it a trend that is happening? Have any of you seen this strange phenomenon amongst the young couples/singles you're around? It greatly concerns me and for the first time now I feel like the end might actually be near. Never really felt it before. I feel doom and gloom, help.Please don't make this political k? Not that you would. To clarify, your feeling doom and gloom (about the end of the world?) because the younger generation are marrying later/having fewer kids? I'm not aware of this being one of the signs of the times...At any rate, the older I get the less I worry about the end of the world/second coming. As a youth I was convinced it would happen in my lifetime. Now I'm convinced it won't. I've got another 30-50 years (God willing), or maybe I'll be run over by a bus tomorrow. Either way, it's a blink in the 1000s (millions?) year history of the world. I highly doubt anyone alive today will usher in the great and terrible day (Despite what any misreading of patriarchal blessings suggest).
Tacenda Posted October 17, 2012 Author Posted October 17, 2012 Thanks for everyone's responses so far. They are so helpful. I'm going to pass along the talk by Pres. Hunter, it is perfect! 1
ERayR Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Yesterday I had dinner with my very TBM niece. The subject of our national debt came up. My brother in-law described how it would be impossible to actually ever balance the budget since it is about 16 trillion. Can't remember the exact number he stated. And we were discussing the implications of it. My niece has a 2 yr.old and is married. She stated that she really doesn't feel good about bringing another child into the world. She even feels guilty for having her 2 yr. old son. My other nephew and his wife feel the same way with their 1 yr. old. Both of these couples are stopping at one!! What is going on? Also, my sons don't have a huge desire to marry very soon both are dating someone quite seriously. And the one son feels the end is near anyway so why bother too much with the future. It's not coming from me either, not sure where he's gettng his information, I continually tell him he'll have a family, grow old etc.Is this just within my family or is it a trend that is happening? Have any of you seen this strange phenomenon amongst the young couples/singles you're around? It greatly concerns me and for the first time now I feel like the end might actually be near. Never really felt it before. I feel doom and gloom, help.Please don't make this political k? Not that you would. If it is any comfort to you I have similar feelings. I think that the younger generations have the same premonitions and so are reluctant to build lasting relationships and to bring children into the uncertainty.
ERayR Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 It's a trend among educated, upwardly mobile people. Children are expensive, and there is so much uncertainty in the world that responsible people are naturally second-guessing themselves. Ironically, these same people will likely make the best parents.My experience is that it is much more an across the board thing and not relegated to the educated and affluent.
Biz Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Contrary to the woe is us talk, there are more indicators that the world is becoming less violent and the probability of abundance is our future. I don't see why humanity perpetuates this rhetoric from generation to generation. The good ole days rhetoric has been going on since socrates and plato. I likely meet this pool of individuals, I have been married for 6 years and don't plan on having kids for another 4 years and don't want more than 2-3, Why? This is because of the same reasons you're mystified about the 16 trillion dollar debt issue. I want to have kids responsibly, I'm not going rely on the government to pay for my kids health and food. I can't responsibly provide that for them now so I will wait to do so. Having kids is expensive and I'm all for doing it in a planned and responsible way. 2
ERayR Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Contrary to the woe is us talk, there are more indicators that the world is becoming less violent and the probability of abundance is our future. I don't see why humanity perpetuates this rhetoric from generation to generation. The good ole days rhetoric has been going on since socrates and plato.http://www.ted.com/t...f_violence.htmlhttp://www.ted.com/t...our_future.htmlI likely meet this pool of individuals, I have been married for 6 years and don't plan on having kids for another 4 years and don't want more than 2-3, Why? This is because of the same reasons you're mystified about the 16 trillion dollar debt issue. I want to have kids responsibly, I'm not going rely on the government to pay for my kids health and food. I can't responsibly provide that for them now so I will wait to do so. Having kids is expensive and I'm all for doing it in a planned and responsible way.2 Nephi 28:21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at aease in Zion!25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well! 1
Biz Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 2 Nephi 28:21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at aease in Zion!25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!Feel free to elaborate on how that applies to my post?
Gillebre Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Feel free to elaborate on how that applies to my post?I think (correct me if I'm wrong) he means that you've basically fulfilled the prophecy contained in that scripture. The idea that 'all is well', or that the world is becoming a better place and less violent. Scriptures concerning the last days declare a world that is pretty much the opposite of what you've said such indicators...indicate.
Biz Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 I think (correct me if I'm wrong) he means that you've basically fulfilled the prophecy contained in that scripture. The idea that 'all is well', or that the world is becoming a better place and less violent. Scriptures concerning the last days declare a world that is pretty much the opposite of what you've said such indicators...indicate.I guess we carry a different definition of Zion as well as the fulfillment of prophecy?I wouldn’t think that saying the world is becoming less violent and more abundant is saying all is well in Zion. I think it says in general the world is less violent and we have more opportunities for abundance. I have air conditioning in my house, my grandparents never had that at my age. I have access to health saving technologies that my grandparents never had the opportunity to have. I have access to transportation that would have saved the lives of thousand pioneers.I don’t think that is a person saying all is well in Zion while the devil is carefully leading him down to hell, do you?
Tacenda Posted October 17, 2012 Author Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Biz, I've been holding onto the same thinking as you. Because I do think the youth of the world seem to be so much more accepting of others and more loving. I guess to me it's the ecomony and losing our country as we now know it, not so much that the violence is worse. I think the younger generation might be worried that our country won't be a world power any longer and that puts us on the road to other world powers taking over as a dictatorship. I wouldn't want my child living under that kind of regime either. Hopefully we have some help from God. He may be trying us this way to get us to put down our luxurious ways and reach out to save the poor. Edited October 17, 2012 by Tacenda
cinepro Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 With Halloween coming up, I'm reminded of when I first heard about razor blades being found in popcorn balls, which I used to get from some of my neighbors while doing trick or treating as a small child. And then they were found in candied or caramel apples, too. Not that I got nothing but those yummy treats, because I got a lot of store bought stuff too, but it wasn't long after that that people no longer gave stuff like that away because the people who gave that stuff didn't want to freak out the parents of those children who got it.You'll be happy to hear that the "razor blade in the apples" stories were just urban legends. But that still doesn't stop me from going to Safeway every October 31 to buy a bag of apples and a box of razor blades, just to see the look on the cashier's face. 4
canard78 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 You'll be happy to hear that the "razor blade in the apples" stories were just urban legends. But that still doesn't stop me from going to Safeway every October 31 to buy a bag of apples and a box of razor blades, just to see the look on the cashier's face.Awesome what a beautifully twisted thing to do
blackstrap Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Tacenda,how many great civilizations have come and gone in recorded history? How many of them felt that their power would last forever? Most of these societies came to an end because of internal strife weakening them to the point that they either died out or were conquered.I often reflect on the statement by Moses after being shown a vision of the world " and now I know that man is nothing,which thing I had never supposed "
Avatar4321 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 If it is any comfort to you I have similar feelings. I think that the younger generations have the same premonitions and so are reluctant to build lasting relationships and to bring children into the uncertainty.I have similiar feelings too. But I've been working on doing the exact opposite. If the end is near, it's the end of wickedness. It means Christ will come and we will be happy. We will have a thousand years of peace and joy to raise our families. 1
canard78 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 I have similiar feelings too. But I've been working on doing the exact opposite. If the end is near, it's the end of wickedness. It means Christ will come and we will be happy. We will have a thousand years of peace and joy to raise our families.I'm always interested to chat with people who do think the end is near. Are you thinking a few years/decades/before you die/in the next few generations. I know 'thief in the night etc' so we've no certainty, I was just curious to get a feel for the time-scale you were considering.
Saints Alive Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 My ward recently had a new couple move in, you would not believe the outcry of indignation when the wife said they waited 7 years to have their first child. The idea of someone "planning" a child was just too much for some to accept.
canard78 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 My ward recently had a new couple move in, you would not believe the outcry of indignation when the wife said they waited 7 years to have their first child. The idea of someone "planning" a child was just too much for some to accept.Friends who were going through medical school and waiting, used to get asked by the old dears at church, "no kids yet" to she'd reply "no, Ben's impotent." It would last a few weeks and then they'd ask again to which she'd say "no, but we're having great fun practising." I know I went off a bit about having only one, but fundamentally, it really is no'one else's business how many kids anyone has. Church busy-bodies should but-out (that's not directed at anyone on here).Elder Packer's best bit of (apocryphal?) advice to Bishops was "Brethren, stay out of their bedroom." When I was a Branch Pres my Stake Pres said as much to me. 1
Tacenda Posted October 17, 2012 Author Posted October 17, 2012 Canard78, like you said, you weren't directing your comment to any on the board but I'm just replying back that I don't have a problem with couples choosing to delay or choosing a small number of children, just having a problem with the reason, it being that the world isn't conducive to having children, and it being quite unfair that the younger generation feel so doomed with those feelings.
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