Bom Geo-Why Care?

[Duncan]

An idea I have been playing around with is why care or what difference does it make where events in the Book of Mormon happened? I LOVE history and archaeology just as much as the next person, in fact I have a degree in History but why must we search out where all these things happened? I am NOT arrogant to think that because I am not interested then no one should be or that what efforts have been made in the past by members or non-members are in vain and misguided or silly but what case is there for us to try to find this stuff? I get the verses where it talks about searching out knowledge and figuring out things and learning as much as you can but if I knew that Nephi's Temple was in downtown Veracruz Mexico I don't know if that is going to make me listen to 90's grunge or techno music less or be more nice ( I am a nice and very pleasant person I might add but not because I know or don't know where his Temple is) So, why do people care so much? and I am not anti-intellectual or education or anything of the kind. Now that I have tied myself to the stake of apathy, you may proceed to light your fire on me! go easy I have glasses

Edited December 31, 2011 by Duncan

[bluebell]

I can understand caring, to a degree, but i don't get the arguing over it.

Isn't a bit ironic that people sometimes become so contentious over where the book took place which teaches that contention is of the devil??

[blackstrap]

The WHERE it happened is not so important as the THAT it happened. The finding of a "Zarahemla" would give a huge boost to the validity claims( and a big area for the critics to launch attacks).Personally ,I still await such a finding by someone who was looking for something else in a place no one expected to find it.

[Duncan]

I can understand caring, to a degree, but i don't get the arguing over it.

Isn't a bit ironic that people sometimes become so contentious over where the book took place which teaches that contention is of the devil??

Now that I can buy!

[Duncan]

The WHERE it happened is not so important as the THAT it happened. The finding of a "Zarahemla" would give a huge boost to the validity claims( and a big area for the critics to launch attacks).Personally ,I still await such a finding by someone who was looking for something else in a place no one expected to find it.

maybe it all happened in Saskatchewan

[Duncan]

would someone get into a relationship with Christ or out because of archaeology? I don't know

[Peppermint Patty]

Great OP, Duncan.

Most people that I know don't read The Book of Mormon and think to themselves, "wow, what a great history book". I think people who argue over the archaeology and geography of the Book are completely missing its message.

The Book of Mormon's real power lies in its ability to change people for the better and make them more Christlike, not to teach them about geography. Just my 2 cents.

[ERayR]

The WHERE it happened is not so important as the THAT it happened. The finding of a "Zarahemla" would give a huge boost to the validity claims( and a big area for the critics to launch attacks).Personally ,I still await such a finding by someone who was looking for something else in a place no one expected to find it.

Where it happend has no bearing on its validity.

[Calm]

I can understand caring, to a degree, but i don't get the arguing over it.

Isn't a bit ironic that people sometimes become so contentious over where the book took place which teaches that contention is of the devil??

No rep points left....should get a special dispensation for this post though.

[juliann]

What does knowing where the Bible took place add to understanding it? It would be of inestimable value if we could have that additional knowledge of the BOM. That became clear to me when Brant used Mesoamerican cultures to explain some BOM events. If nothing else, trying to add some geography provides mental images that make it easier to remember things. The problem is when people create unprovable theories and turn it into a hobbyhorse....or as we are seeing now, a sole source of income that relies on maintaining that particular construction, right or wrong. That also goes for any tour that is showing people where the BOM happened. So I think we should welcome every attempt to use the BOM to relate to a geography as long it is considered to be just a theory that can be discarded or changed at any time. The minute a geography buff starts invoking prophets and his own revelation.....run.

[Duncan]

What does knowing where the Bible took place add to understanding it? It would be of inestimable value if we could have that additional knowledge of the BOM. That became clear to me when Brant used Mesoamerican cultures to explain some BOM events. If nothing else, trying to add some geography provides mental images that make it easier to remember things. The problem is when people create unprovable theories and turn it into a hobbyhorse....or as we are seeing now, a sole source of income that relies on maintaining that particular construction, right or wrong. That also goes for any tour that is showing people where the BOM happened. So I think we should welcome every attempt to use the BOM to relate to a geography as long it is considered to be just a theory that can be discarded or changed at any time. The minute a geography buff starts invoking prophets and his own revelation.....run.

I suppose, I can see archaeology enhancing the text rather then the other away around

[blackstrap]

maybe it all happened in Saskatchewan

Loin clothes,December,Saskatchewan... yup.Seems reasonable!

[Duncan]

Loin clothes,December,Saskatchewan... yup.Seems reasonable!

its Sask. so they have to spice things up a tad!

Edited January 1, 2012 by Duncan

[The Nehor]

Honest curiosity. It is why I know most of the things I know. To be human is to want to understand.

[livy111us]

I never cared much about BOM geography until Meldrum came around. I have since taken an interest just to keep people from being scammed by him, but still really don't care all that much where people believe it took place.

[Duncan]

I never cared much about BOM geography until Meldrum came around. I have since taken an interest just to keep people from being scammed by him, but still really don't care all that much where people believe it took place.

interesting, most interesting!

[Gervin]

What does knowing where the Bible took place add to understanding it?

I would say that geographic, archaeological, and historic knowledge adds immeasurably to our understanding of the Bible. It provides place context, adds to cultural insights, and verifies scriptures. When Jesus, in Capernaum, refers to a millstone around someone's neck it's helpful to know that this city was the center of basalt production of millstones. The discovery of Hezekiah's Tunnel verified 2 Kings 20:20. The discovery of the Madaba Map, likewise, verifies Biblical sites.

The Book of Mormon claims that it is, in part, a history. If it describes a true history then finding the location of the events, cities, and cultures in the Book could very well verify and compliment this history.

[Calm]

Honest curiosity. It is why I know most of the things I know. To be human is to want to understand.

What is nice about this reason....which is mine as well...is that if new information comes along it is always a reason to celebrate, even if it contradicts what was concluded in the past. There is no reason to get defensive Or fearful over anything if the desire is simply to learn as much as one is capable of cramming into one's head.

[livy111us]

There is no reason to get defensive Or fearful over anything if the desire is simply to learn as much as one is capable of cramming into one's head.

Unless your salary depends on it...

[Anijen]

I am with Julian knowing about a past culture will help us understand the Book of Mormon better, other than that geography has no importance for me. I am fine with Book of Mormon tours in the US, Mesoamerica, Indonesia, and even Saskatchewan as long as it is taught as an opinion. I am not for Geography Firesides when its agenda is to sell DVDs or belittle other believers (Meldrum), but Geography Firesides that strengthen your desire to learn about the Book of Mormon are good.

[BCSpace]

I generally agree with the OP. But my perception is that no one in support of a Mesoamerican LGT is promoting such as LDS doctrine whereas Meldrumites are absolutely promoting a North American LGT as offfical LDs doctrine and in fact there is no LDS doctrine (defined as published by the Church) to conclusively promote one or the other. Right or wrong in my perception?

[Calm]

Unless your salary depends on it...

Yep, but then it's not simply learning, it's gotten complicated.

[Duncan]

I generally agree with the OP. But my perception is that no one in support of a Mesoamerican LGT is promoting such as LDS doctrine whereas Meldrumites are absolutely promoting a North American LGT as offfical LDs doctrine and in fact there is no LDS doctrine (defined as published by the Church) to conclusively promote one or the other. Right or wrong in my perception?

verytrue, I can see some people I know who think they have it all settled and obviously...but to me (not to judge) but in their minds believing that the Jaredites cutdown all the trees in the midwest and into central Canada doesn't do much for them behaviour wise

[Rob Osborn]

If one studies the Book of Mormon lomg enough they will have the natural curiosity of wanting to know about the geography of the said events. I myself have set out on that conquest many a time only to realize that we can theorize all we want and it still doesn't add to our evidence for the book being true. The words themselves are the testimony of truth- by themsleves as a witness to us. If we cannot see that truth and are looking for physical evidence to bolster our belief in it's validity then we miss the point of the book itself that it was written for us so that we can know what type of men we ought to be in our hearts.

If the events happened in both south America and North America or one or the other really doesn't matter as long as we understand the meaning of what is being conveyed. The authors really make no great pains to establish where the events took place, it just wasn't important to them writing to us in our day. Everyone today is looking for a sign- some actual physical evidence for the existance of truth in order for them to believe. the BoM on the other hand is a message of faith and believing in the testimony of others and learning about how real truth is obtained. Sure, it is interesting to look at the ancient ruins and artifacts left behind on bot continents, but without revealed truth or some real physical indisputable evidence, we are best left to not assume or place any whereabouts on the peoples of the BoM. It's far too easy to begin to build up a theory that may indeed be wrong and in so doing we may be building the very road leading to our downfall and destruction. Take the "hill cumorah" for example- we have a certain amount of revealed truth as to where it is but because of al the prevailing pet theories on such manner, it has caused many a persons faith to be challenged even leading some away from the straight and narrow path. And because of what? Because some have felt it more important to establish as truth where certain events did or did not take place based on no revealed truth or factual indisputable evidence.

It is wise for us to thus keep an open mind and realize that all possiblities are open but that we shouldn't rest our entire testimony on someones pet theory of the which we have seen shattered on many occasion. In due time the Lord will teach us the truth regarding the actual physical location of the evnts in the BoM. God already has revealed to us at least in part the actual location of the Hill Cumorah. In due time he may teach us the location of other places also.

[Duncan]

If one studies the Book of Mormon lomg enough they will have the natural curiosity of wanting to know about the geography of the said events. I myself have set out on that conquest many a time only to realize that we can theorize all we want and it still doesn't add to our evidence for the book being true. The words themselves are the testimony of truth- by themsleves as a witness to us. If we cannot see that truth and are looking for physical evidence to bolster our belief in it's validity then we miss the point of the book itself that it was written for us so that we can know what type of men we ought to be in our hearts.

If the events happened in both south America and North America or one or the other really doesn't matter as long as we understand the meaning of what is being conveyed. The authors really make no great pains to establish where the events took place, it just wasn't important to them writing to us in our day. Everyone today is looking for a sign- some actual physical evidence for the existance of truth in order for them to believe. the BoM on the other hand is a message of faith and believing in the testimony of others and learning about how real truth is obtained. Sure, it is interesting to look at the ancient ruins and artifacts left behind on bot continents, but without revealed truth or some real physical indisputable evidence, we are best left to not assume or place any whereabouts on the peoples of the BoM. It's far too easy to begin to build up a theory that may indeed be wrong and in so doing we may be building the very road leading to our downfall and destruction. Take the "hill cumorah" for example- we have a certain amount of revealed truth as to where it is but because of al the prevailing pet theories on such manner, it has caused many a persons faith to be challenged even leading some away from the straight and narrow path. And because of what? Because some have felt it more important to establish as truth where certain events did or did not take place based on no revealed truth or factual indisputable evidence.

It is wise for us to thus keep an open mind and realize that all possiblities are open but that we shouldn't rest our entire testimony on someones pet theory of the which we have seen shattered on many occasion. In due time the Lord will teach us the truth regarding the actual physical location of the evnts in the BoM. God already has revealed to us at least in part the actual location of the Hill Cumorah. In due time he may teach us the location of other places also.

awesome!