Encouraging Counsel From Elder Russel M. Nelson

[why me]

I was kinda thinking the same thing. I've been in many Stakes and many wards and one of the few constants is that there are always good sisters in Relief Society who constantly lament that they are too flawed and not good enough. It's a phenomenon that I have particularly taken note of over the years. It may be that men feel the same way, but that they are just not as verbal or it may be that many LDS women just don't feel that they are "good enough", but it's definitely there.

This can be a problem. But it is also good to look for sources for the problem. Is it lds culture? Is it the time that we are living in where the great majority of us must be productive and efficient? Is from low self esteem? Maybe you should initiate a discussion when you hear this said by women in relief society.

Edited December 30, 2011 by why me

[why me]

Despite reassurance from Elder Nelson and other leaders that everything will work out in the eternities, my mother considers herself a "failure in the Home" due to the apostasy of most of her many children. She cooked and cleaned, sewed and scrubbed, indoctrinated and nurtured the living daylights out of us. I think reducing her pain to "beating herself up" over not being "perfect" is an oversimplification but that is probably how she would articulate it herself in front of other women.

The problem with your post is with the word 'indoctrinated'. And perhaps her mistake as to why many of her children fell away. If the children felt that an indoctrination was taking place, a reverse outcome will happen. Children will rebel. Most adults can measure their success by their children. If they feel that the children did not succeed, they can blame themselves.

[why me]

I have seen this happen to women (both parents, of course, but it seems like the women take it more personally) who were actually very good parents and did everything they thought they were supposed to do. I remember one woman, in particular, in tears, at a RS meeting, because all of her children had left the church (and she had many...I think five or six). She was absolutely heartbroken and so depressed. I'm sure she did blame herself, but she was also confused as to why this would happen. I'm sure she didn't think she "deserved it".

In general this is a common occurance with parenting. Mormon parents can equate their parenting skills to church activity of their children. Other parents outside the church can become judgemental of themselves if their children are drinking too much alcohol or taking drugs etc. And the same beating up process occurs with parenting depending on the success of the children for members and nonmembers.

[Senator]

The problem with your post is with the word 'indoctrinated'. And perhaps her mistake as to why many of her children fell away. If the children felt that an indoctrination was taking place, a reverse outcome will happen.

There's no problem with the word.

"to instruct in a doctrine, principle, ideology, etc., especially to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view."

You really feel that indoctrination is non-existant in the church, or that the church doesn't indoctrinate parents to indoctrinate their children?

Edited December 30, 2011 by Senator

[bluebell]

There's no problem with the word.

"to instruct in a doctrine, principle, ideology, etc., especially to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view."

You really feel that indoctrination is non-existant in the church, or that the church doesn't indoctrinate parents to indoctrinate their children?

All parents indoctrinate their children. Every religion (or non-religion in regards to atheism) indoctrinates. Schools indoctrinate. Sports teams indoctrinate. Commercials on t.v. indoctrinate. We all, in small or big ways, are attempting to indoctrinate each other here on this board.

Indoctrination definitely exists in the church, per the definition you have used, as it should.

If someone uses the term 'indoctrination' to mean 'brainwashing'-as many like to do-then that would be incorrect, but i don't believe that's how birdgirl meant it at all.

Edited December 30, 2011 by bluebell

[Senator]

but i don't believe that's how birdgirl meant it at all.

Me neither.

[birdgirl]

If someone uses the term 'indoctrination' to mean 'brainwashing'-as many like to do-then that would be incorrect, but i don't believe that's how birdgirl meant it at all.

If I understand why me correctly, the implication isn't so much that I view the term indoctrination in a negative way (which I do) but that my mother viewed teaching me LDS doctrine as a task- one performed without proper sincerity and, if so, she deserves the blame she assigns to herself. My parents wouldn't have called it indoctrination and I always knew they were very sincere and heartfelt about what they taught me.

[bluebell]

If I understand why me correctly, the implication isn't so much that I view the term indoctrination in a negative way (which I do) but that my mother viewed teaching me LDS doctrine as a task- one performed without proper sincerity and, if so, she deserves the blame she assigns to herself. My parents wouldn't have called it indoctrination and I always knew they were very sincere and heartfelt about what they taught me.

I would be very surprised if Why Me's reaction to your post had to do with his perceived insincerity of your mother, but he'll have to speak for himself here since i certainly can't speak for him.

[DBMormon]

just saw this and too feel more Grace being taught. I love this change.... log time coming as the Book of Mormon teaches this throughout. I just started a post on Grace and Mercy that you guys might like

[Peppermint Patty]

just saw this and too feel more Grace being taught. I love this change.... log time coming as the Book of Mormon teaches this throughout. I just started a post on Grace and Mercy that you guys might like

Thanks, Reelmormon. I will check out your post.