Jump to content

Encouraging Counsel From Elder Russel M. Nelson


Recommended Posts

http://mormonchannel.org/video/mormonmessages?v=1289877050001

The link above goes to a really brief video clip on Mormon.org, wherein Elder Russel M. Nelson gives some of the most gentle, sweet and encouraging counsel I have ever heard. It seems to me like there has been an organic evolution in the Church's leadership where there is less focus and demand for personal perfection RIGHT NOW and more focus on faith that Christ will more than make up the difference in any area where we are lacking as long as are willing to keep on trying.

Growing up in the Church, it seemed like personal perfection or damnation seemed to be the clarion call. Perhaps it was for a reason at that point in the Church's history. Now, however, it seems that the good news of the Gospel, that imperfect persons and those who are struggling and will continue to struggle can be saved and perfected in Christ, seems to be the emphasis.

Is it just me? Or, has anyone else perceived this, too? I think I began to notice a difference around 2007, but maybe that was only because I wasn't really active then, and in need of repentence, myself. I wonder when this all began to evolve? Any ideas?

Watch the clip! You'll be glad you did.

Link to comment

I've noticed the same thing, but to me it seemed to be more of an intelligently-designed development.

No. Something that is designed can't develop. Or can it?

Anyway, this video was a breath of fresh air for me. Elder Nelson sounded so much more personal than he does in general conference talks.

This is something I think every member of the church needs to watch. I think it encompasses a lot of what being a mormon is all about.

Link to comment

I like this one, too:

Link to comment

Growing up in the Church, it seemed like personal perfection or damnation seemed to be the clarion call. Perhaps it was for a reason at that point in the Church's history. Now, however, it seems that the good news of the Gospel, that imperfect persons and those who are struggling and will continue to struggle can be saved and perfected in Christ, seems to be the emphasis.

Is it just me? Or, has anyone else perceived this, too? I think I began to notice a difference around 2007, but maybe that was only because I wasn't really active then, and in need of repentence, myself. I wonder when this all began to evolve? Any ideas?

Watch the clip! You'll be glad you did.

Our world seems to be changing and these changes are affecting people's lives especially in the moral areas of life. A couple of weeks ago, someone was quoting Bruce R. McConkie in class and I thought wow, a flashback from the 1970's. McConkie sounded harsh now but back then, he didn't sound harsh. Times have changed. The church needed to evolve because it seems that evil is more prevalent these days. And on the moral landscrape, evil is more pervasive within our societies. The media is a catalyst for these changes. Without the evolving church to cope with the amoral landscape, many members would be in trouble if we still stress perfection and obedience as we did in the past.

I think that we are also experiencing a great uprooting of traditions and community as people are tossed around as if they are in a personal hurricane. I think that the video attempts to address this. People are afraid of the future and many are just trying to find a root to latch on to. Such is life within a 'runaway world'.

Edited by why me
Link to comment

I would be interested to see you expound a little more on this, Mr. Cinepro.

You say: "It seems to me like there has been an organic evolution in the Church's leadership"

He responds: "I've noticed the same thing, but to me it seemed to be more of an intelligently-designed development."

It's a joke see. What with the controversy in education curriculum... and science... and... stuff. (trails off into mumbling)

Edited by Sine Saw Square
Link to comment

Is it just me? Or, has anyone else perceived this, too? I think I began to notice a difference around 2007, but maybe that was only because I wasn't really active then, and in need of repentence, myself. I wonder when this all began to evolve? Any ideas?

It's not just you. Look at the multi-million dollar ad campaign. The thrust of the Mormon media message today is, "We are so, damn normal! There is nothing extremist about us at all."

Link to comment

Perspective is everything. One can say the best is ahead of us and they'd be right. But one would also be correct in saying the worst also is ahead of us. People fear change, and our society has become too entrenched in technological achievements. Prophecy looms ahead of us as a very dark cloud, behind which is a very silver lining. President Hinckley said we were a blessed generation and that we were fortunate to be a part of it. He then died a few months later!

How well will we make the transition to a world without air conditioning, or without a power grid? How will we adjust to that food supply we've been saving but many times not eating? Before things get better, the Lord will withdraw His Spirit from this nation. Then, we're told, we can expect the Adversary to once again stir up the hearts of the people against the Lord's people.

Fortunately, we have prophets. How else can a Zion society be established? When civil wars erupt across the nation...when a desolating sickness covers the land, and manufacturing and commerce ceases, revelation and the manifestation of God's power will be just as necessary as it was in the days when He led Moses and the children of Israel out of Egypt. We're told that even the saints will hardly escape, but still, it's difficult to see these things and not be affected at all. But the Gospel will go into other nations and then afterwards to the Jews.

We're very close to the Seventh Seal being opened and the only thing we have to experience is the Sixth Seal earthquake. This will cause massive destruction, darkening the sun and turning the moon to blood. I often wonder how the Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians and others will deal with these days and times when they've closed the door on revelation?

In this dispensation the Lord said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face. Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord. And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord; first among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house."

So while the Brethren are right when they say the best is ahead, we also are given to understand that it will be a time of tribulation and sifting. The wheat will be separated from tares, and while the future may have its challenges it also will have its opportunities. (I recently heard a church author who has written and lectured on the return of Christ say that when it happens, a child looking out the window of a car might confuse the returning Christ with an airliner landing at the local airport! It was a silly thing to say, really, in that it presupposes that our society would continue on as it is until then. By closing our eyes to some of the unpleasant aspects of the future, I fear that many may not be prepared for it. Am I wrong?)

Link to comment

So did the family ever finish the trip?

Yes. Elder Holland and his family were headed east so that he could continue his education at Yale.

Link to comment

This is something I think every member of the church needs to watch. I think it encompasses a lot of what being a mormon is all about.

Great comment. I agree 100%. It gives me hope that despite my many, many shortcomings, Christ will make all things whole in the next life. I know many woman in the Church that beat themselves up every day because they are not perfect. They need to hear Russell M. Nelson's counsel.

Link to comment

http://mormonchannel.org/video/mormonmessages?v=1289877050001

The link above goes to a really brief video clip on Mormon.org, wherein Elder Russel M. Nelson gives some of the most gentle, sweet and encouraging counsel I have ever heard. It seems to me like there has been an organic evolution in the Church's leadership where there is less focus and demand for personal perfection RIGHT NOW and more focus on faith that Christ will more than make up the difference in any area where we are lacking as long as are willing to keep on trying.

Growing up in the Church, it seemed like personal perfection or damnation seemed to be the clarion call. Perhaps it was for a reason at that point in the Church's history. Now, however, it seems that the good news of the Gospel, that imperfect persons and those who are struggling and will continue to struggle can be saved and perfected in Christ, seems to be the emphasis.

Is it just me? Or, has anyone else perceived this, too? I think I began to notice a difference around 2007, but maybe that was only because I wasn't really active then, and in need of repentence, myself. I wonder when this all began to evolve? Any ideas?

Watch the clip! You'll be glad you did.

"organic evolution in the Church's leadership?" I wish I knew what you were talking about. I have been in the Church for years, and don't recognize such a thing. Can you be a bit more specific, and give specific examples of how the current teaching of the Church leadership is somehow out of sync with what was taught ten or twenty or thirty or fifty years earlier?

Link to comment

I know many woman in the Church that beat themselves up every day because they are not perfect. They need to hear Russell M. Nelson's counsel.

Ummm, never knew anything like that either. You must have been going to Church on a different planet from where I have been going.

Link to comment

Great comment. I agree 100%. It gives me hope that despite my many, many shortcomings, Christ will make all things whole in the next life. I know many woman in the Church that beat themselves up every day because they are not perfect. They need to hear Russell M. Nelson's counsel.

There is no reason for anyone to beat themselves up because they are not perfect. No one is perfect nor will they ever be in this life. Joseph Smith was not perfect and he knew it. He tried to get the saints to understand that he was no different from them in their imperfections. He even said that he wasn't righteous.

But if you do know of women who beat themselves up you need to speak with them to convince them that there is no reason to do so. Show them the video. You can do wonders for such women.

Link to comment

It's not just you. Look at the multi-million dollar ad campaign. The thrust of the Mormon media message today is, "We are so, damn normal! There is nothing extremist about us at all."

And they are normal. That is the point. Whether you believe it is irrelevant. What is extremist about what mormons believe? To live the commandments as laid down in the new testament? To find joy in doing the word of god? And to treat others as you would want to be treated?

Sad that you think that mormons are extremists. They are just trying to do what they think is right to be with their Father in the afterlife.

Edited by why me
Link to comment

That was a very nice video. What I got from it, more than just "one doesn't have to be perfect in this lifetime" was the reason one doesn't have to be insecure, in spite of weaknesses & imperfections. What I saw, in Elder Nelson, was a strength and comfort that comes from his faith in Jesus Christ and the gospel.

Great comment. I agree 100%. It gives me hope that despite my many, many shortcomings, Christ will make all things whole in the next life. I know many woman in the Church that beat themselves up every day because they are not perfect. They need to hear Russell M. Nelson's counsel.

That is a problem for a lot of women (in and out of the church).. We tend to be very hard on ourselves.

Very nice video. Very comforting tone.

Edited by Libs
Link to comment

Great comment. I agree 100%. It gives me hope that despite my many, many shortcomings, Christ will make all things whole in the next life. I know many woman in the Church that beat themselves up every day because they are not perfect. They need to hear Russell M. Nelson's counsel.

Would these women be really doing all they could do if they weren't beating themselves up? And doesn't the Book of Mormon say we are only saved after all we can do? Can any of us say confidently, "I'm doing all I can do." If not, you're headed for hell according to this all or nothing thinking, which is the ultimate problem that skews the truth and lead me to so much distress, anxiety and depression throughout my life. I personally now have the courage to not believe it's all or nothing. I believe every decision I've ever made counted in some way regardless of later repentances. But that leaves me in contradiction to current Mormon theology. That was difficult for me to swallow, but in the end, you have to go with what you feel is right. That's where Mormonism started for me in the first place. It just seems funny that same basic sense of fairness, right, and wrong is where it also is ending for me.

Link to comment

Ummm, never knew anything like that either. You must have been going to Church on a different planet from where I have been going.

Never? Wow. Indeed, I must be attending a Church on a different planet too.

Link to comment

Never? Wow. Indeed, I must be attending a Church on a different planet too.

I was kinda thinking the same thing. I've been in many Stakes and many wards and one of the few constants is that there are always good sisters in Relief Society who constantly lament that they are too flawed and not good enough. It's a phenomenon that I have particularly taken note of over the years. It may be that men feel the same way, but that they are just not as verbal or it may be that many LDS women just don't feel that they are "good enough", but it's definitely there.

Link to comment

Why is everything you say so negative? You always sound like you're in a bad mood.

It happens to me every time I come across your face. Don't know why!

Altersteve's comment was inappropriate but yours is even worse. You have racked up so many warnings you are threatening your status on this board. You are lucky to only be thrown out of the thread.

Link to comment

Great comment. I agree 100%. It gives me hope that despite my many, many shortcomings, Christ will make all things whole in the next life. I know many woman in the Church that beat themselves up every day because they are not perfect. They need to hear Russell M. Nelson's counsel.

Some women in the church are fine with not being perfect. After all, Joseph Smith wasn't perfect. What I've come to understand is that women "beat themselves up" or are concerned because they don't enjoy doing righteous things as much as they think they should. Julie B. Beck talks about how being a female equals nurturing and nurturing equals/includes cleaning house (Mothers Who Know talk).

Mothers who know are nurturers. This is their special assignment and role under the plan of happiness.5To nurture means to cultivate, care for, and make grow. Therefore, mothers who know create a climate for spiritual and temporal growth in their homes. Another word for nurturing ishomemaking. Homemaking includes cooking, washing clothes and dishes, and keeping an orderly home. Home is where women have the most power and influence; therefore, Latter-day Saint women should be the best homemakers in the world. Working beside children in homemaking tasks creates opportunities to teach and model qualities children should emulate. Nurturing mothers are knowledgeable, but all the education women attain will avail them nothing if they do not have the skill to make a home that creates a climate for spiritual growth. Growth happens best in a “house of order,” and women should pattern their homes after the Lord’s house (see D&C 109). Nurturing requires organization, patience, love, and work. Helping growth occur through nurturing is truly a powerful and influential role bestowed on women.

I believe that cooking, cleaning and washing clothes are just tasks that must be done but hold no eternal value connected to my reproductive organs. I could hire out all these tasks and be a much better/happier mother. I could nurture and teach my kids to be excellent people without scrubbing a single toilet. If you feel the way I do but are taught to believe you should feel otherwise then the difference could be something to "beat yourself up" about.

My sister (with 2 kids) really wants to work outside the home (she is super extroverted and can't volunteer for enough stuff to compensate for the SAHM funk so she feels guilty for hating being at home and wanting a career). She doesn't worry over slight imperfections but rather the huge discrepancy between what she should do and what she wants to do. The problem is that she would be much happier getting a nanny even if it cost every penny of her salary- the improvement in her mental health would be well worth it but she feels that would be unrighteous. She took comfort in the words of some LDS leaders who said we shouldn't judge women who work and some "I'm a Mormon" adds but then this lesson in the new "Basic Manual for Women" reduced my sister to tears because she doesn't want to groom dogs or babysit or any of the other options on the list or any other job "in the home".

http://lds.org/manual/the-latter-day-saint-woman-basic-manual-for-women-part-a/lesson-28-developing-employment-skills?lang=eng

If a woman believes that living a certain way is to obey eternal female principles and should make her feel fulfilled or at least bring a sense of satisfaction and then she doesn't feel at all satisfied she worries that she is defective or doing it wrong. I think it is similar to the despair a "same sex attracted" person might feel- that their truest self is antithetical to the eternal standard. That would be depressing.

Despite reassurance from Elder Nelson and other leaders that everything will work out in the eternities, my mother considers herself a "failure in the Home" due to the apostasy of most of her many children. She cooked and cleaned, sewed and scrubbed, indoctrinated and nurtured the living daylights out of us. I think reducing her pain to "beating herself up" over not being "perfect" is an oversimplification but that is probably how she would articulate it herself in front of other women.

Link to comment
Despite reassurance from Elder Nelson and other leaders that everything will work out in the eternities, my mother considers herself a "failure in the Home" due to the apostasy of most of her many children.

I have seen this happen to women (both parents, of course, but it seems like the women take it more personally) who were actually very good parents and did everything they thought they were supposed to do. I remember one woman, in particular, in tears, at a RS meeting, because all of her children had left the church (and she had many...I think five or six). She was absolutely heartbroken and so depressed. I'm sure she did blame herself, but she was also confused as to why this would happen. I'm sure she didn't think she "deserved it".

I thought she was given some pretty wise counsel, by another older woman, who had two of her four children leave the church. She said, for one thing, it helped her not be so judgmental about other parents whose children had left, because that had been her tendency, when she was younger (to assume it was the parents fault, somehow). She also said that we have to remember that children are individuals and not extensions of their parents, and they have their own lessons to learn and paths to follow. But, most of all, she reminded us all that we must continue to love and have hope for our children, no matter their current circumstances or state of mind. To continue to love and pray for them.

So, as always, there can be some real positives in adversity.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Similar Content

    • By mfbukowski
      I have not thought this through much yet, so help me out here.
      First a preface.
      I have a personal testimony of Jesus Christ, that he was a real person who came to earth, suffered in Gethsemane and in the crucifixion, and through his atonement and death we are made "square" with God,  and that we are "saved by grace after all that we can do" and that, as a 40 year member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and temple worker, I don't think any aspect of these ideas can or should be altered in any way.  We are talking about "salvation" here, in the sense of being forgiven from sin, and we are NOT talking about exaltation- which is a whole different level of "salvation" which is often confused with "being saved" as other Christians use the terminology.  This IS the gospel of Jesus Christ and our church has the best paradigm I think, for mankind to follow.  That means I consider that we are the church with the most truth about these matters than any other on earth today, and are most importantly a LIVING church because we can all receive personal revelation on a daily basis, and our leaders are inspired men, as shown by all the changes we are making which I highly endorse.  In other words, I have a testimony that we are the most "true and living church" on the earth today.
      On the other hand, I am personally interested in reaching out to the secular world and drawing parallels between our beliefs and the way the world sees things to help explain the gospel to secular people.  We live in a secular world in which church is separate from the state- at least so far, and allegedly we still have freedom of religion, but the way things are going, that is another question beyond this thread.
      But I think we need all the help we can get in converting people who are now "secular" to see us as normal people who have a church which is spiritual but also rational rather than seeing us as kooks or cultists, or people who "just believe" what they are told.
      Now the question.
      How does the notion of "being saved by grace after all that we can do" differ- except for the word "grace" which is a spiritual term- differ from the secular notion that, say a criminal, is forgiven by the law, after he has done all he can do by serving his sentence in prison, paid his fine, or, in short, doing whatever society feels is "all he can do" to go free and be forgiven?
      The philosophy of Pragmatism eschews philosophical distinctions which make no practical "difference" in practice.  In laymen's terms, one might say "it's six of one, half dozen of the other"- meaning it is virtually the "same thing"
      Remember again we are talking only about our theology of forgiveness here, not exaltation, not even being "saved" technically- JUST the idea of what it takes for God to forgive us of our sins.
      How does "saved by grace after all that we can do" differ from "freed by the law after all our penalties (prison sentences etc) are done"?
      Could this analogy be used to explain our doctrine of the atonement to secular people who already of course understand the idea that once one has "done the crime AND served the time" he should be forgiven?
      We have the ransom analogy and other analogies of the atonement- how does this view differ in a PRACTICAL sense, and could it also serve as a useful analogy?
    • By Five Solas
      From time-to-time, LDS on the forum unleash the charge of “cheap grace” directed at Christians of the Evangelical persuasion.  My alias (“Five Solas”) seems to be a lightning rod for this kind of thing.  No worries, the misunderstanding doesn’t personally offend.  But I would take an opportunity to clear it up.
      Yesterday my oldest (age 8 ) was performing in Northwest Girlchoir in a large Lutheran Church in Seattle’s Phinney Ridge neighborhood.   We arrived early and while she was getting ready, I found myself with a few extra minutes in their library.  I’ve read some of Bonhoeffer’s work as well as a biography of his life, but wasn’t familiar with Eric Metaxas’s BONHOEFFER: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy which was prominently displayed on a shelf.  So I picked it up and scanned the first pages and discovered Tim Keller’s introduction that I’m about to share here.  Fit for purpose, as you’ll soon see.
      ***
      I’m delighted that my friend Eric Metaxas has penned this volume on Dietrich Bonhoeffer. The English-speaking public needs to know far more than it does about his thought as well as his life.  When I became a Christian in college, Bonhoeffer’s Cost of Discipleship was one of the first books I read, followed not long afterwards by Life Together. I still think the second book is perhaps the finest single volume I have ever read on the character of Christian community, but it was the first book that set me on a life-long journey to understand the meaning of grace.
      I now realize how impossible it is to understand Bonhoeffer’s Nachfolge without becoming acquainted with the shocking capitulation of the German church to Hitler in the 1930s. How could the “church of Luther,” that great teacher of the gospel, have come to this?  The answer was that the gospel, summed up by Bonhoeffer as costly grace, had been lost. On the one hand, the church had become marked by formalism. Formalism meant going to church, hearing that God just loves and forgives everyone, so it didn’t really matter much how you lived. Bonhoeffer’s name for this was cheap grace. On the other hand, you had legalism, or salvation by law and good works.  Legalism meant God loves you because you have pulled yourself together and lived a good, disciplined life.  Both of these impulses made it possible for Hitler to come to power.  Formalists may have seen things in Germany that bothered them, but they did not see any need to sacrifice their safety to stand up to them.  Legalists were more likely to have the Pharisaical attitudes toward other nations and races that approved of Hitler’s policies.
      Germany had lost hold of the brilliant balance of the gospel that Luther so persistently expounded:  “we are saved by faith alone, but not by faith which is alone.”  That is, we are saved by grace, not by anything we do, but if we have truly understood and believed the gospel, it will change what we do and how we live.  Much of the German church understood ‘grace’ as abstract acceptance — “God forgives; that’s his job.”  But the grace comes to us by costly sacrifice. And if God was willing to go to the cross and endure such pain and absorb such a cost in order to save us, then we must live sacrificially as we serve others.  So anyone who truly understands how God’s grace comes to us will have a changed life.  That’s the gospel, not salvation by law, or by cheap grace, but by costly grace.  Costly grace changes you from the inside out.  Neither law nor cheap grace can do that.
      This lapse couldn’t happen to us, today, surely?  Certainly it could.  We still have a lot of legalism and moralism in our churches.  In reaction to that, many Christians want to talk only about God’s love and acceptance.  Many of them don’t like talking about Jesus’ death on the cross to take divine wrath and justice.  Some even call this “divine child abuse.”  All this might run the risk of falling into the belief in “cheap grace” — a non-costly love from a non-holy God who just loves and accepts us.  That will never change anyone’s life.  So it looks like we still need to listen to Bonhoeffer and others who go deep in discussing the nature of the gospel.
      - See more at: http://ericmetaxas.com/writing/essays/tim-kellers-foreword-bonhoeffer-pastor-martyr-prophet-spy/#sthash.BhuAGNC9.dpuf
      ***
      I’d be interested if any LDS would be willing to offer a critique of Keller’s introduction and/or of Bonhoeffer’s life and work.  
      Yes, I realize LDS have their own hero in the German story of Nazi resistance (albeit a controversial one, since leadership excommunicated him for his opposition to the Third Reich) Helmuth Hubener.  And LDS back then were served by a president & prophet (Heber J. Grant) who wasn’t persuaded America should have gotten involved in WWII and pretty much hated everything President Franklin D. Roosevelt thought was worth pursuing.  Wrong side of history, Grant was.  Repeatedly.  And all the many LDS who sustained him.  If there's a more glaring example in the 20th century history of the LDS Church--I'm not aware of it.  But I digress... 
      Going forward I’m going to link back to this thread each & every time someone here types, “cheap grace.”  So if you still think the shoe fits & you want to go there--give it your best shot right here, right now. 
      ;0)

      --Erik
      ________________________________
      Now, if you find yourself falling apart
      Well I am sure I could steer
      The great salt lake
      --Band of Horses "The Great Salt Lake"
    • By prisonchaplain
      Since King David had his general set up to be murdered, is he limited in is eternal destiny to the Telestial Kingdom?  I've heard this suggested, based on the LDS teaching that murderers can only receive grace sufficient for entry into the lowest heavenly kingdom.  I find the idea troubling. 
    • By JDave
      I was unaware that the church newsroom had doctrinal tidbits in there (thanks CV75 for pointing in that direction) and as I was browsing I came upon the entry for Grace. I was interested in (and happy with) their use of 2 Ne. 25:23 at the end. Thoughts? Is that the official way on how to read the end of that verse?
    • By mercyngrace
      I was listening this morning to a radio program called Unbelievable in which N.T. Wright, preeminent New Testament scholar, prolific writer, and Bishop of Durham was debating American Evangelical Theologian James White. Dr. White acknowledged partway through that if Wright's interpretation of Pauline scripture is accurate then, the reformers didn't quite have everything correct and there would be a need for more word from God (as opposed to White's sola scriptura approach).... Why yes, James. We Mormons call that "Apostasy and Restoration." It's a few months old but it's a good listen for anyone interested.
      [media=]
×
×
  • Create New...